Comparing Apples to Oranges in the Recruiting Game

[Sleepy T]

they missed on Blanding, Brown, and Holmes just like we did. All had Bama offers. Mihota did as well.

Alabama signed by what most recruiting sites list as five 5* star guys this class.

One thing that I found interesting (mentioned on M & M this morning) was that EVERY 5* guy that 'Bama has ever signed has been a NFL 1st rounder. Anyone that follows the NFL knows there are many of the other guys they get make in the league or at the very least get drafted as well. Its an easy sell for Satan to Hand, and we are going to lose most of those battles to the 'Bama, tOSU, Fla, FSu, etc.

 

[VTscores]

We have a great foundation coming along in this class, and if we can repeat a couple more years recruiting like this,, and finding the gems, I think we can overachieve a little, perhaps beat the noles in the conference championship game, and play close or win in the playoffs. Then,, guys like Nnadi, and Harrison wont be as quick to jump, and maybe a Hand or Holmes is happy with some VT glam.

That's it. 5-star players are great, and it would be nice to get a class of 5 of them, but if you want those guys you'll have to look dominant in a high profile game against a high profile team.

Beamer had a formula once for taking 3 star players further than anyone else using defense and special teams. Now he just needs to find a different formula that will work with 4 star players. Part of that will require that he maintain the stellar defense, that he add an offense, and upgrade the offensive line.

Oh, and can he revisit the concept of special teams? Whoever is coaching that is fucking up big time.

 

[amszete]

That's it. 5-star players are great, and it would be nice to get a class of 5 of them, but if you want those guys you'll have to look dominant in a high profile game against a high profile team.

Beamer had a formula once for taking 3 star players further than anyone else using defense and special teams. Now he just needs to find a different formula that will work with 4 star players. Part of that will require that he maintain the stellar defense, that he add an offense, and upgrade the offensive line.

Oh, and can he revisit the concept of special teams? Whoever is coaching that is fucking up big time.

That is spot on...and when is the last time this was accomplished?

I am excited for this class though. I hope moving forward we can close early on some major killer athletes like we did with H. Fisher.

 

[Camfantasy]

Alabama signed by what most recruiting sites list as five 5* star guys this class.

One thing that I found interesting (mentioned on M & M this morning) was that EVERY 5* guy that 'Bama has ever signed has been a NFL 1st rounder. Anyone that follows the NFL knows there are many of the other guys they get make in the league or at the very least get drafted as well. Its an easy sell for Satan to Hand, and we are going to lose most of those battles to the 'Bama, tOSU, Fla, FSu, etc.

Untrue according to Rivals and 247. I'm assuming they are going by ESPN's rankings (which are shit, of course) and they are just 5 for 6 there because of Eddie Williams getting kicked off the team. ESPN is stingy with 5 stars, thus leading to a higher likelihood that a 5-star will not be a bust.

 

[Sleepy T]

Untrue according to Rivals and 247. I'm assuming they are going by ESPN's rankings (which are shit, of course) and they are just 5 for 6 there because of Eddie Williams getting kicked off the team. ESPN is stingy with 5 stars, thus leading to a higher likelihood that a 5-star will not be a bust.

Maybe so, but you get the jist of what I am saying. 'Bama puts many many more of these kids in the league. Especially wrt the OL DL and LBs. The numbers are probably similar, but most of the secondary is drafted higher as well. NO big secret that VTs DL and LBs don't transition well to the league. 'Bama gets highly ranked kids who play in a pro system with pro concepts AND develop them.

 

[NickVT10]

Maybe so, but you get the jist of what I am saying. 'Bama puts many many more of these kids in the league. Especially wrt the OL DL and LBs. The numbers are probably similar, but most of the secondary is drafted higher as well. NO big secret that VTs DL and LBs don't transition well to the league. 'Bama gets highly ranked kids who play in a pro system with pro concepts AND develop them.

On a related note, all of the 5 stars we have had in recent memory made it to the league

 

[VTscores]

Maybe so, but you get the jist of what I am saying. 'Bama puts many many more of these kids in the league. Especially wrt the OL DL and LBs. The numbers are probably similar, but most of the secondary is drafted higher as well. NO big secret that VTs DL and LBs don't transition well to the league. 'Bama gets highly ranked kids who play in a pro system with pro concepts AND develop them.

I'm not sure I know what you're saying. It's kind of hard to compare VT 3 star linemen to Alabama 5 star linemen, isn't it? When was the last time a 5 star lineman from VT didn't make it to the NFL?

OL coaches like Grimes and Searels probably give VT a better chance of this than they had in the past.

 

[Sleepy T]

I'm not sure I know what you're saying. It's kind of hard to compare VT 3 star linemen to Alabama 5 star linemen, isn't it? When was the last time a 5 star lineman from VT didn't make it to the NFL?

OL coaches like Grimes and Searels probably give VT a better chance of this than they had in the past.

Ok, ok. I get what you are guys are saying. Maybe a 3* Vt vs. a 5* Bammer or Tiger is not a fair comparison. I would be interested in how say the 4* guys might compare given that VT and the SeC schools probably gets its share. Maybe I will do the research...

 

[Sleepy T]

OK, Just for fun .... Nick Saban was hired by 'Bama in 2007. Looking at his signing classes from say 2007 to 2011ish here is what we have for DL, OL, and LBers and where they were drafted...mostly 4 stars, with some 3s and 5s sprinkled in there..

2009
(1) Andre Smith, T
(3) Antoine Caldwell, C

2010
(1) Rolando McClain, LB
(2) Terrance Cody, DT ---3*
(3) Mike Johnson, G
(7) Brandon Deaderick, DE

2011
(1) Marcell Dareus, DT ---3*
(1) James Carpenter, T

2012
(1) Donta Hightower, LB
(2) Courtney Upshaw, LB
(5) Josh Chapman, DT

2013
(1) DJ Fluker ---5*
(1) Chance Warmack, G ---3*
(4) Nico Johnson, LB ---5*
(4) Barrett Jones, G
(5) Jesse Williams, T
(5) Quinton Dial, DE

 

[Sleepy T]

By comparison, this is VTs same NFL track record over the same time period....Painter and Worilds were 4* and Wang was a 3*.

2009
NONE

2010
NONE

2011
(2) Jason Worilds,LB
(5) Ed Wang, T

2012
NONE

2013
(6) Vinston Painter, T

 

[Sleepy T]

Its not huge secret that VT has not recruited very well over the last 5 years, and certainly not on the OL. After looking at this stuff, I can see a directly correlation between a 3 star guy and a 4 star guy. So I can see you guys points on comparing a program like 'Bama whoo gets ALOT of high 3, 4 star guys and someone like VT who gets alot of good 3s, a handful of 4s, and a 5 star evry few years.

There will always be under the radar guys (2 stars) that will overachieve and get drafted and be a great story. But it is pretty obvious to me that as a general rule, 5 star guys are typically Rounds 1-3, and that 4 star guys have a great chance of getting drafted if they are developed and work hard. Just my take.. I stand corrected. Just looking at the numbers, I would say that 'Bama probably has more guys drafted because frankly, they are getting more talented guys at these positions to begin with.

And FTR, The skill positions and secondary were much more "even", as I would have expected.