CFB Free Agency

[mad2mc]

Huggins went 0-2 against Kansas the first season in the Big 12 and has gone on to split the regular season. He is 0-2 in the Big 12 championship, one of the losses is to Kansas. Dana will not be able to coach as many games against OU as Huggy will against Kansas. Mathematically impossible, but I'm sure your Poppy math will attempt to normalize it. If you could make a rational, unemotional, post, then I will at least remove your stupid stamp. Any questioning of your beloved new man crush makes you mad.

Here are some Huggy facts for you (cause I know you're too stupid or lazy to validate anything you throw out there, hoping it sticks):
2007: Sweet 16 loss to Xavier;
2008: 1st round loss to Dayton;
2009: Final 4 loss to Duke;
2010: Sweet 16 loss to Kentucky;
2011: 1st round loss to Gonzaga;
2012: had a 13- 19 season and 1st round loss to TT in Big 12 Tourney;
2013: NIT 1st round loss to Georgetown;
2014: Sweet 16 loss to Kentucky;
2015: 1st round loss to SFA;
2016: Sweet 16 loss to Gonzaga.

It appears to me that our future HOF HC should have been able to recruit kids after the 2009 season that would have significantly improved the program, but it appeared that was not the case. Based off of this trend, we should be bounced out in the 1sr round next year and make a run to the Elite 8 in 2018. I'm sure Poppy math would make the 2012 season equivalent to finishing in the top 25 in football.

 

[mad2mc]

That would have been a good season to make a change except for the buyout. Texas boosters could afford the buyout. I don't think Lyons really had that luxury. I agree that he should have kept his mouth shut on contract negotiations. I'm not convinced that yearly contracts were the reason for Assistant turnover. Lyons inherited Holgerson just like Luck inherited Stewart. Luck however had the luxury of not having to deal with a big buyout clause and a tough decision was less expensive to make.

As you see the recruiting numbers above, you can see that after those losses we had a worse recruiting year than when Dana was a lame duck. Lucky for us, the 2013 class included some great players that helped us turn it around. No surprise that we hit the JUCOs hard the past couple of years and brought in more graduate transfers to make up for the 2014 class.

I agree with most of your assessment, however, WVU has the boosters that would have paid the buyout IF they felt it was justified. Don't forget Kendrick hated the Stew hire and pulled his money. I'm sure, but can't prove it, that he is back in the fold. Interesting that a baseball stadium appeared in the Mountaineer landscape. I felt the old ball field was adequate. One was needed to bring the program up to Big 12 standards but to bring a MLB affiliate to Morgantown speaks volumes. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Diamondback affiliate in there at some point.

I do feel that a yearly contract for seasoned assistants was not a wise statement to make and claim that it is the new trend in college football. If Einstein would have understood his Ohio St link, he would have read that Meyers staff agree to those 1 and 2 year contracts which allow them the flexibility to take an opening elsewhere. That is why a Schiano agreed to this. Meyer has that type of coaching tree. He can pull an assistant from just about any program of his choice. Coaches on his staff know that they will be compensated and retained for thei services. Saying that at WVU doesn't have the same ring to it. I agree that bringing in a grad assistant or first time college coach should be expected to sign a 1 year deal. We saw where this coupled with a low salary could have easily resulted in some guys leaving. Some may have wanted to be closer to home, while some may not have liked coaching for Dana.

 

[GoldRusher]

Man... I've tried to explain to you that recruiting is a multi-year process. Classes are built over time. Recent success/failure has little impact on the composite of the class put together a month following the last game of the year. It is why we didn't see a jump in the '06 class after beating UGA in the Sugar Bowl. The '06 class finished 247 Composite #57.

The '14 class finished #38 after a poor '13 season. Last year's class was ranked #57 by the same site.

Why did the '12 class finish #36 following the Orange Bowl win?

57th ranked class. There is only one reason it fell this low. Shane Lyons.

Kentucky ( has been beating our arses in the rankings the last few years, KENTUCKY (let that sink in for a sec). Mark Stoops just signed an extension less than 2 weeks ago and he has the Cats ranked 22nd with 5 three star commits in the 2018 class (Dana and the extension he signe in December and everyone with half a brain saw coming a month before has us at 70th so far...good grief).

Stoops won 7 games for the first time this past year, 5 wins the two seasons before, on the hotseat heading into 2016 just like Dana, had and let go one of the same assistants (Ol Dimples Dawson) just like Dana, and yet... Its the AD's fault.., stop it.

Face it BB, not all football coaches are created equal when it comes to recruiting. Dana has some good abilities but he still has a lot to learn when it comes to recruiting prep football players.. These excuses man, el OH el..

 

[mad2mc]

If you look at Rivals, when Stoops arrived to Kentucky in 2013 their recruiting rank was 29 (WVU 27). In 2012, it was Kentucky ranked at 67 (WVU 50). Stoops-mania brings the Cats up to 18 in 2014 (WVU 46); Cats 34 in 2015 (WVU 33); Cats 29 in 2016 (WVU 38); Cats 26 in 2017 (WVU 51).

I didn't hear about Stoops being on a hotseat but did read where some said he needed to win at least 6 games in 2016. Definitely didn't hear nor read about his AD coming out talking about a fair contract was offered but Stoops refused to sign it. But then again, I didn't go looking at Kentucky sites about there coach. I believe you are the only one that believes in that coaches on the hotseat website. How reliable of a website. If you won the NC, you drop down to the bottom. If you are a marquee HC, you are at the bottom of the list. If you just signed a new contract, you are in the middle of the pact. If your team sucks, you are towards the top of the rankings. And, if your contract is due and your team sucks, you're in the top 10. So easy, it doesn't take Poppy math to figure it out.

 

[bbwvfan]

Kentucky ( has been beating our arses in the rankings the last few years, KENTUCKY (let that sink in for a sec). Mark Stoops just signed an extension less than 2 weeks ago and he has the Cats ranked 22nd with 5 three star commits in the 2018 class (Dana and the extension he signe in December and everyone with half a brain saw coming a month before has us at 70th so far...good grief).

Stoops won 7 games for the first time this past year, 5 wins the two seasons before, on the hotseat heading into 2016 just like Dana, had and let go one of the same assistants (Ol Dimples Dawson) just like Dana, and yet... Its the AD's fault.., stop it.

Face it BB, not all football coaches are created equal when it comes to recruiting. Dana has some good abilities but he still has a lot to learn when it comes to recruiting prep football players.. These excuses man, el OH el..

Excuses are for losers.

Let's take a look at UK. Stoops was hired after the '12 season. No doubt, Dana made coaching hire mistakes. Unlike his predecessor, he acted quickly to remove them... Billy hung on until he was removed. Billy wasn't even man enough to tell his coaches they was gonna be fired. Sad... but, I digress...

Stoops first true recruiting class would be the '14 class. He done real good... 247 Composite ranked them #22... WVU was ranked #38. The following year, Dana edged out Mark... #35 vs. 38.

WVU's '16 class was the first to be impacted by Shane's 'no decision'. Heading into the season, WVU had a top 25 class coming out of summer camps. As the hot seat rumors grew louder through the 4 game losing stretch... decommit after decommit... knocked the class down into the 50's. Two late season commits... White and Ferns... pushed the ranking back to #39.

The '16 class was the lowest ranked class of Dana's tenure.

That was before the '17 class. Dana never had trouble filling a class until this year. NEVER...

High school seniors who signed LOI for the '17 class were juniors in '16. Shane announced extension talks were off on 20 FEB 16. WVU's Junior Day was 13 MAR.

Great fucking timing... wouldn't you say?

Getting back to UK. Do you think Mark Stoop's recruiting got a boost from the money invested into its football program?

In 2015, UK opened its season in a newly $120 million renovated stadium. This included a new recruiting room and deck just above the student section. A room with tons of shit to impress.

In 2014, UK announced plans to build a new $45 million practice facility. It opened in 2016.

You think those two major investments helped Mark Stoops? In 2014, Luck announced a $106 million facility plan of which 50% was earmarked for work at MPS. One year later, Lyons places Dana on the hot seat where he remained for two years. Two fucking years!!

Get your stupid shit out of here... all this face palm shit. All this excuse making bullshit. Get all of that shit out of my face!

 

[WVUDAD]

Indeed BB, excuses are for losers, hence you keep making excuse after excuse for Holgorsen.........gotcha.

 

[bbwvfan]

Indeed BB, excuses are for losers, hence you keep making excuse after excuse for Holgorsen.........gotcha.

I present facts. Not bullshit like you and others. HUGE DIFFERENCE...

 

[mad2mc]

Similar to his excuses for Stewart or his hate for Luck and Dana. Stupid.

 

[Slaton10]

WVU HAD a consistent top 25 recruiter at football coach a few years ago.......so you would give Huggins two years to get to the elite eight or can him, but you wanted to extend Holgorsen for making it to the Yankee Bowl............Holgorsen was under a contract from Luck that would have cost $$millions to can after the 2015, he was offered an extension and declined it, both parties decided to table talks until later, WVU had a successful season and Holgorsen was extended, Lyons did his job, and did it well.

LOL 80% of those kids never hit campus!

 

[Mike]

LOL 80% of those kids never hit campus!

UHHHH But they were still ranked in the top 25.......

 

[Slaton10]

UHHHH But they were still ranked in the top 25.......

I guess they were on paper!

 

[WVUDAD]

I guess they were on paper!

I thought paper and perception was what mattered to a few of our fans, anyway, the same recruiting ranking services are being used today, WVU will never be a great recruiting school unless we should happen to land a Saban type coach who would bring in top talent from all over the country just to play for him.

 

[mad2mc]

Not sure how to take a 'I love you, man' rating. Is it sarcasm or sincerity? Is it like saying 'With all due respect' or 'Bless your heart'? Another one is the 'Cake Reward'. What is a 'Cake Reward'? Is that like the 50 cent line 'I love you like a fat boy loves cake'? I know what it means in the 50 cent song, but I'm sure it doesn't mean the same here. Am I being rewarded for something? My birthday was in March, but I wasn't given a cake reward then. I don't want to give somebody an emoji that they have not earned and it is getting harder and harder not to use the 'bullshit' emoji, but I'm attempting to restrain myself.

 

[DCWV4life]

I find it funny that someone assumes we need to make excuses for a coach coming off a 10 win season.....improved his record every year for a 4 year period. I know he didn't win a national championship like Stew...oh wait...like Rich..oh wait....like Don...oh wait............

 

[DCWV4life]

I thought paper and perception was what mattered to a few of our fans, anyway, the same recruiting ranking services are being used today, WVU will never be a great recruiting school unless we should happen to land a Saban type coach who would bring in top talent from all over the country just to play for him.

I will be honest I do not buy into the rankings as much as some.....but I will say we are seeing a lot of players not ranked that high come in here and develop into NFL talent. All three DL from last year might find themselves on NFL teams, yet their rankings were not very high 4 years ago.....I know you will never see it, but this staff is doing a lot of good things with the talent we can get. It seems DH has been pretty good with reloading not only players, but solid guys to put on the staff.

 

[bbwvfan]

I find it funny that someone assumes we need to make excuses for a coach coming off a 10 win season.....improved his record every year for a 4 year period. I know he didn't win a national championship like Stew...oh wait...like Rich..oh wait....like Don...oh wait............

You don't get it!

Dana lost to KU and ISU.

He loses to them every fucking year...

Hope that helps...

 

[Slaton10]

I thought paper and perception was what mattered to a few of our fans, anyway, the same recruiting ranking services are being used today, WVU will never be a great recruiting school unless we should happen to land a Saban type coach who would bring in top talent from all over the country just to play for him.

I am not so sure...but you could be right...in my amateur not really knowing opinion a guy like Saban never had to recruit in a state that didn't have a talent base...ie Michigan, Louisiana and Alabama....but if you would have said Meyer..that would make sense...he made Utah a top tier program..

I think Wv has its hands full sitting in the center of circle that has 3 Big10 teams, 3 ACC Teams and 1 SEC team surrounding the state...all of them extremely competitive in what they can offer a Student/Athlete.

And what is that game changer that separates them from Wv?..no its not facilities, though that is important.. .... its the perception of getting a top end education.. they are making strides for sure...but I have beat this drum before...until the school raised its standards for admittance ...schools like Ohio State, Pitt, Penn State, UVA, Va Tech..etc will always be able to play that card...Dana will never have that...

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I find it funny that someone assumes we need to make excuses for a coach coming off a 10 win season.....improved his record every year for a 4 year period. I know he didn't win a national championship like Stew...oh wait...like Rich..oh wait....like Don...oh wait............

Blame the AD

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I will be honest I do not buy into the rankings as much as some.....but I will say we are seeing a lot of players not ranked that high come in here and develop into NFL talent. All three DL from last year might find themselves on NFL teams, yet their rankings were not very high 4 years ago.....I know you will never see it, but this staff is doing a lot of good things with the talent we can get. It seems DH has been pretty good with reloading not only players, but solid guys to put on the staff.

You really hit the nail on the head regarding the meaning of this post. My feeling is that we miss out on many under the radar Frosh that have the potential to become NFL caliber. Our DL and OL classes this year really represent this fact. None of these players could get 4 stars in teh ratings, but are now considered to be potential NFL players. While we get proven talent from JUCO and grad transfers, for each one of those we take, we potentially miss out on the next 2 star like Pat White getting the offer.

the fact has been proven that Dana is not a good recruiter of high school talent. He does a much better job with JUCO and grad transfers. I see us getting into a cycle where our team becomes dominated by Juco and transfers in the future. You know what you get with JUCOs who have matured and fully developed. Frosh could drop out, or they could gain 100 pounds and become a monster as they develop. You just never really know.

In the past, WVU has had their best seasons with low ranked recruits who vastly outperformed their ratings. Oliver Luck, Major Harris, Amos Zerouoe, Pat White, Steve Slaton are all examples of lower rated Freshman who outperformed. You just never know who your next star will be. With Jucos we know what we have and should be good with Will Grier, Antonio Crawford, K. White, K White.

I think that as long as we have Holgs, we will live or die by JUCO talent.

 

[Bat 20]

Here is a question that maybe someone can answer. What percentage of incoming freshman do we get that start, or are in the rotation, for 3 or 4 years, versus JUCOs that play two years?