Bye Week Midseason Draft Thoughts

[ATL96Steeler]

Since we have an off week, and with Misk's blessing I thought I would I would throw out some early draft talk.

With 8 sacks (last in the NFL), I don't think we have to think too hard about the position the Steelers could be targeting with the 1st round pick. Notable players with a significant snapcounts that have yet to record a sack...Tuitt, Javis Jones, Harrison. Everyone knows Jarvis is in his contract year, and aside from the lack of sacks, he's playing pretty good...has a INT, FF, and FR so far...not enough to keep as a starter next yr, but I can see them keep him as a rotation player for around $2-3 mil per.

Dupree has yet to play and we're going to know in a week or so whether he's going to factor at all this season...he's due to come off IR in a week or so.

At least right now, I think we can expect them to be picking in the mid 20s or higher so they will need to have the scouts digging hard.

From CBS 2017 Draft prospects list...with a 1st round or high 2nd rd grade

DE

1 Myles Garrett DE 1 Texas A&M Jr 6-5 262 1
3 Jonathan Allen DE 2 Alabama Sr 6-3 291 1
14 Derek Barnett DE 3 Tennessee Jr 6-3 265 1
23 Carl Lawson DE 4 Auburn rJr 6-2 253 1
26 Charles Harris DE 5 Missouri rJr 6-3 255 1
32 Solomon Thomas DE 6 Stanford rSo 6-2 275 1-2
43 Dawuane Smoot DE 7 Illinois Sr 6-3 255 2

I think the top 3 will be gone long before the Steelers pick. I have seen all 3 play and Bama is the only 3-4 team. Both Garrett and Barnett play with the hand on the ground, but have enough athleticism to play in space.

OLB

10 Tim Williams OLB 1 Alabama Sr 6-3 252 1
19 Marquis Haynes OLB 2 Ole Miss Jr 6-2 222 1
34 Jarrad Davis OLB 3 Florida Sr 6-1 240 1-2
51 Haason Reddick OLB 4 Temple rSr 6-1 230 2

There are a few more OLB prospect I think are legit NFL prospects that will go later in the draft and I can see PIT taking one of them if there is no value in the 1st round. Ryan Anderson from Bama, Devonte Fields from Louisville are two that come to mind.

The big question is aside from pass rusher where do you think the Steelers need to focus draft picks? I think they need another ILB with this likely the last year for Timmons.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Since we have an off week, and with Misk's blessing I thought I would I would throw out some early draft talk.

With 8 sacks (last in the NFL), I don't think we have to think too hard about the position the Steelers could be targeting with the 1st round pick. Notable players with a significant snapcounts that have yet to record a sack...Tuitt, Javis Jones, Harrison. Everyone knows Jarvis is in his contract year, and aside from the lack of sacks, he's playing pretty good...has a INT, FF, and FR so far...not enough to keep as a starter next yr, but I can see them keep him as a rotation player for around $2-3 mil per.

Dupree has yet to play and we're going to know in a week or so whether he's going to factor at all this season...he's due to come off IR in a week or so.

At least right now, I think we can expect them to be picking in the mid 20s or higher so they will need to have the scouts digging hard.

From CBS 2017 Draft prospects list...with a 1st round or high 2nd rd grade

DE

1 Myles Garrett DE 1 Texas A&M Jr 6-5 262 1
3 Jonathan Allen DE 2 Alabama Sr 6-3 291 1
14 Derek Barnett DE 3 Tennessee Jr 6-3 265 1
23 Carl Lawson DE 4 Auburn rJr 6-2 253 1
26 Charles Harris DE 5 Missouri rJr 6-3 255 1
32 Solomon Thomas DE 6 Stanford rSo 6-2 275 1-2
43 Dawuane Smoot DE 7 Illinois Sr 6-3 255 2

I think the top 3 will be gone long before the Steelers pick. I have seen all 3 play and Bama is the only 3-4 team. Both Garrett and Barnett play with the hand on the ground, but have enough athleticism to play in space.

OLB

10 Tim Williams OLB 1 Alabama Sr 6-3 252 1
19 Marquis Haynes OLB 2 Ole Miss Jr 6-2 222 1
34 Jarrad Davis OLB 3 Florida Sr 6-1 240 1-2
51 Haason Reddick OLB 4 Temple rSr 6-1 230 2

There are a few more OLB prospect I think are legit NFL prospects that will go later in the draft and I can see PIT taking one of them if there is no value in the 1st round. Ryan Anderson from Bama, Devonte Fields from Louisville are two that come to mind.

The big question is aside from pass rusher where do you think the Steelers need to focus draft picks? I think they need another ILB with this likely the last year for Timmons.

So hard to tell without knowing what they'll gain and lose in FA but pass rushers are top of the list. Whether that comes form LB or DL or both. A true NT may be at the top too and DB (CB & Safety) depending on how the backend plays the rest of the year. WR is always in play. OL looks solid but one is almost always drafted every year.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

So hard to tell without knowing what they'll gain and lose in FA but pass rushers are top of the list. Whether that comes form LB or DL or both. A true NT may be at the top too and DB (CB & Safety) depending on how the backend plays the rest of the year. WR is always in play. OL looks solid but one is almost always drafted every year.

He's not showing a whole lot yet, but they really like Hargrave...maybe they see a true run stuffer to replace McCullers with later in the draft...I can see them going for a DE that can be developed....I thought they would draft a OG this yr so an OL for sure at some point in the draft.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

What's Bell's status after the season. FA or RFA? If FA and they lose him, RB could go to the top of the list.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Haven't dove into prospect listings yet as I'm still gathering a list of team needs and prioritizing... Been tryin to analyze each position group, but the flip-flopping on the justifications is never-ending. Here's what I have to date:

QUARTERBACK
Expiring Contracts: Jones, Gradkowski
My take: Have a hard time justifying Landry's existence in Pittsburgh, but it keeps happening every year. Now that his contract is up, the Steelers will have to answer the question of whether he has learned & developed enough to justify keeping him onboard as a QB2. With Mett in the fold it gives them leverage, not that they need it. But I think we can all agree the Landry Jones experiment should be buried.
Need: Moderate

RUNNING BACK (RB, FB)
Expiring Contracts: Bell, D-Williams, Toussaint, Nix
My take: This next FA period is going to be a highly debated one for Pittsburgh fans. We know Bell isn't trustworthy enough to earn the contract he wants, but will he command the top dollar? If he tries to explore the open market you can bet your sweet ass 31 teams will be calling. He could get the $12-15mil, but it wouldn't be here. It will be interesting to see where his priorities lie. With D-Will also set to become a FA, and also could be contemplating retirement, it's easy to see why Colbert has been stocking the PS cupboard with RB talent. Daryl Richardson & Karlos Williams are there. We could be in for a major shakeup at the RB position next season. Nix was a great acquisition last year, but it looks like he was very out of shape this offseason. Questions about his dedication are there.
Need: High

RECEIVERS (WR, TE)
Expiring Contracts: Wheaton, D-Johnson, Grimble
My take: Sorry Wheaton, I don't think there's much of a chance that you stick around. You cannot seem to shake a shoulder injury this season, and Eli Rogers & Sammie Coates have emerged and they aren't going anywhere. Add in Ayers and the writing is on the wall. Depending on what we see from Green's activation, either DJ or Grimble could be released at that point. Doubt the team will carry 4 TE's with other positions being so thin. I think now that Nix is healthy, DJ will get the axe once Green is ready. They can resign 1 of Johnson or Grimble for cheap.
Need: Low

O-LINE (OT, G, C)
Expiring Contracts: Villanueva, Wallace, Hubbard
My take: A-Vill is a no-brainer resign. They won't let him walk like they did Beach because they still don't know what they have in Hawkins. I could see A-Vill getting a 3-yr contract. Also, Harris will still be under contract next season so that gives them flexibility. But given Harris' injury history, I wouldn't feel very assured depending on him. Hubbard's emergence as a OT helps his case tremendously. He is far from polished, but given his position flexibility I'd love to see him stick around. He's seen work at every position on the O-line (looked awful at LT in the preseason though lol). Wallace used to be a fan favorite but my patience has worn thin. He's currently costing the Steelers $3.5mil and he has yet to suit up. He was a serviceable player when healthy, but Finney has emerged and will be under contract next year so that makes Wallace very expendable.
Need: Moderate

D-LINE (DE, NT/DT)
Expiring Contracts: Matthews
My take: Not too many expiring contracts worthy of mentioning. Only Matthews, who I think could be kept around for cheap should he prove worthy. Walton is still grooming who could emerge next offseason.
Need: Low

LB (ILB/OLB)
Expiring Contracts: Timmons, J Jones, Harrison, Chickillo, Fort, S Johnson
My take: Not sure Timmons sticks around. He's lost a step or 2, but he's still serviceable. V-Will was extended last offseason so I think Timmons is gone. Only thing that worries me is that Shazier can't stay healthy. They need someone they can depend on. Matakevich has a stellar reputation so far, but is still developing. Maybe Timmons gets a 1-yr extension? Jones & Chick will likely get resigned for cheap, but the OLB position is in dire need of an upgrade. I don't see Feeney coming off the PS next season and making waves. Maybe he gets transitioned to ILB like we originally predicted he would.
Need: High

DB (CB/S)
Expiring Contracts: Cockrell, S Thomas, Dangerfield, Ventrone
My take: I think Cockrell needs to be resigned. He is still young and developing. We've seen his potential, and he could become something special. If he walks that would leave Gay, Burns, Gilbert & Golson as a very questionable group. They don't know what they have in Gilbert & Golson yet. And Golson hasn't even proved he's durable enough to survive a single training camp. Should Cockrell walk, they would need to draft or acquire someone. It would be nice to see them at least draft a CB that is a better zone-scheme fit. The loss of Thomas & Ventrone isn't much to worry about, but I'd like to see Dangerfield stick around. He's proven to be everything the team wanted from Thomas ironically. Davis is still grooming, so he has time to potentially unseat Golden. The starting safety positions are in good hands, but will need depth should none of the 3 listed above get resigned.
Need: Moderate

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Haven't dove into prospect listings yet as I'm still gathering a list of team needs and prioritizing... Been tryin to analyze each position group, but the flip-flopping on the justifications is never-ending. Here's what I have to date:

QUARTERBACK
Expiring Contracts: Jones, Gradkowski
My take: Have a hard time justifying Landry's existence in Pittsburgh, but it keeps happening every year. Now that his contract is up, the Steelers will have to answer the question of whether he has learned & developed enough to justify keeping him onboard as a QB2. With Mett in the fold it gives them leverage, not that they need it. But I think we can all agree the Landry Jones experiment should be buried.
Need: Moderate

RUNNING BACK (RB, FB)
Expiring Contracts: Bell, D-Williams, Toussaint, Nix
My take: This next FA period is going to be a highly debated one for Pittsburgh fans. We know Bell isn't trustworthy enough to earn the contract he wants, but will he command the top dollar? If he tries to explore the open market you can bet your sweet ass 31 teams will be calling. He could get the $12-15mil, but it wouldn't be here. It will be interesting to see where his priorities lie. With D-Will also set to become a FA, and also could be contemplating retirement, it's easy to see why Colbert has been stocking the PS cupboard with RB talent. Daryl Richardson & Karlos Williams are there. We could be in for a major shakeup at the RB position next season. Nix was a great acquisition last year, but it looks like he was very out of shape this offseason. Questions about his dedication are there.
Need: High

RECEIVERS (WR, TE)
Expiring Contracts: Wheaton, D-Johnson, Grimble
My take: Sorry Wheaton, I don't think there's much of a chance that you stick around. You cannot seem to shake a shoulder injury this season, and Eli Rogers & Sammie Coates have emerged and they aren't going anywhere. Add in Ayers and the writing is on the wall. Depending on what we see from Green's activation, either DJ or Grimble could be released at that point. Doubt the team will carry 4 TE's with other positions being so thin. I think now that Nix is healthy, DJ will get the axe once Green is ready. They can resign 1 of Johnson or Grimble for cheap.
Need: Low

O-LINE (OT, G, C)
Expiring Contracts: Villanueva, Wallace, Hubbard
My take: A-Vill is a no-brainer resign. They won't let him walk like they did Beach because they still don't know what they have in Hawkins. I could see A-Vill getting a 3-yr contract. Also, Harris will still be under contract next season so that gives them flexibility. But given Harris' injury history, I wouldn't feel very assured depending on him. Hubbard's emergence as a OT helps his case tremendously. He is far from polished, but given his position flexibility I'd love to see him stick around. He's seen work at every position on the O-line (looked awful at LT in the preseason though lol). Wallace used to be a fan favorite but my patience has worn thin. He's currently costing the Steelers $3.5mil and he has yet to suit up. He was a serviceable player when healthy, but Finney has emerged and will be under contract next year so that makes Wallace very expendable.
Need: Moderate

D-LINE (DE, NT/DT)
Expiring Contracts: Matthews
My take: Not too many expiring contracts worthy of mentioning. Only Matthews, who I think could be kept around for cheap should he prove worthy. Walton is still grooming who could emerge next offseason.
Need: Low

LB (ILB/OLB)
Expiring Contracts: Timmons, J Jones, Harrison, Chickillo, Fort, S Johnson
My take: Not sure Timmons sticks around. He's lost a step or 2, but he's still serviceable. V-Will was extended last offseason so I think Timmons is gone. Only thing that worries me is that Shazier can't stay healthy. They need someone they can depend on. Matakevich has a stellar reputation so far, but is still developing. Maybe Timmons gets a 1-yr extension? Jones & Chick will likely get resigned for cheap, but the OLB position is in dire need of an upgrade. I don't see Feeney coming off the PS next season and making waves. Maybe he gets transitioned to ILB like we originally predicted he would.
Need: High

DB (CB/S)
Expiring Contracts: Cockrell, S Thomas, Dangerfield, Ventrone
My take: I think Cockrell needs to be resigned. He is still young and developing. We've seen his potential, and he could become something special. If he walks that would leave Gay, Burns, Gilbert & Golson as a very questionable group. They don't know what they have in Gilbert & Golson yet. And Golson hasn't even proved he's durable enough to survive a single training camp. Should Cockrell walk, they would need to draft or acquire someone. It would be nice to see them at least draft a CB that is a better zone-scheme fit. The loss of Thomas & Ventrone isn't much to worry about, but I'd like to see Dangerfield stick around. He's proven to be everything the team wanted from Thomas ironically. Davis is still grooming, so he has time to potentially unseat Golden. The starting safety positions are in good hands, but will need depth should none of the 3 listed above get resigned.
Need: Moderate

Now this really gets the juices flowing...great work!

QB...Jones has not shown enough to be brought back imo...With Mett in the fold, I think it makes sense to look at a QB3 option in the draft and if he elevates to QB2...he will have over taken a guy with starter tools, but not proven. At the same time...I wouldn't mind seeing them target a vet with something left in the tank in FA.

RB...obviously this will be the hottest offseason talk. At the end of the day I think PIT will offer Bell a fair contract (around $9 to $10 mil per) with an out woven into it should he stumble again with pot...FWIW, I think all teams interested will do the same thing. At the same time, clearly they are bracing for him taking a max deal and leaving. I'm not sure how early they will go for a RB, but I expect them to draft one. Nick Chubb from UGA I like a lot.

WR/TE...agree 100%, will add they will always want that blocking ability of DJ...Nix needs to show a little better form for them to feel comfortable moving DJ when Green does make his debut. I don't expect them to take a TE at all in this draft. If Bryant comes back in shape and mentally and chemically ready to play...there's no reason to keep Wheaton they will have enough depth outside, and inside with Rogers/Ayers...fI can see this being the last year for DHB.

OL...agree again. Hawkins has the ability to be a starter...plus they carried another interior guy on IR...Ume-Ezeoku...unless someone of high value falls, I don't expect to see an OL taken within the 1st 4 rounds.

DL...I really think PIT needs to think outside the box a little more. A kid like Deatrich Wise from ARK has Bosa like size and skills but he doesn't really fit 3-4 DE or OLB mold...I said the same thing about Shane Ray from Mizzou who DEN got...that kid is developing into a legit edge rusher. If Malik McDowell is on the board, it might seem like overkill with Tuitt and Heyward on the roster, but another beast on the DL will not hurt.

LB...clearly the weakest part of the team in terms of splash play capability...really Shazier is the only one, Dupree has the ability, but the injury has really halted his development and production.

OLB...I agree Jones has shown enough to be offered a mid-level contract if he stays on this path and the same with Chickillo. Fenney...I have been high on his potential, but not as an OLB...he does have edge rush skills, but I only see him as a 3rd down specialist type player on the edge....as an ILB with speed I love his potential defending in space. I really don't expect to find a prototypical 3-4 OLB that can be an effective edge rusher on this DEF picking where I expect PIT to be in this draft. The need is obviously there, we'll have to scour the draft board as the CFB season ends.

ILB...I think VW is ready to assume the f-t Buck role, and they have developing depth with Matakvech...if Timmons is not retained, this position could be targeted in the 1st rd. If they see Fenney as a ILB player, maybe not.

lot of questions on Timmons, but I think the contract will be the deciding factor on him coming back or not..so far I have been proven wrong as he is still playing mostly as a 3 dwn LB. Clearly not able to be preventative in coverage but he is tackling in coverage okay.

CB/S...PIT still has control over his movement I think, look for Cockrell to be locked up to 3 yr type deal. Maybe not experience wise, but he's playing the best of all the CBs this season imo. I would not be surprised to see a slot CB taken relatively high in this draft...we've the staff talk about Golson, and I'm sure the kid was crushed with his latest injury, but Gay is starting to show his age a little. PIT will need to bring some depth and stability to the slot CB spot...the draft picks this yr, Burns, Davis, are getting some snaps and should have larger roles next year. Gilbert was a nice pickup...Tomlin likes his vets, but imo Gay will to fight for his job next year.

 

[Psych-Ward]

@FaCe-LeE-uS @ATL96Steeler

Heard this trade rumor over the weekend

Possible 2nd round pick for Joe Haden....rumor has it Cleveland is having a fire sale

There was another one, I will get back to you ASAP with it

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

@FaCe-LeE-uS @ATL96Steeler

Heard this trade rumor over the weekend

Possible 2nd round pick for Joe Haden....rumor has it Cleveland is having a fire sale

There was another one, I will get back to you ASAP with it

A 2nd round pick? Damn that would be rough to cough up for someone on the wrong side of their twenties... He's a good CB, don't get me wrong. I would welcome Haden, but that is a price I'm not sure Colbert would be willing to pay.

 

[Psych-Ward]

A 2nd round pick? Damn that would be rough to cough up for someone on the wrong side of their twenties... He's a good CB, don't get me wrong. I would welcome Haden, but that is a price I'm not sure Colbert would be willing to pay.

I also heard, Cameron Wake from Miami....

I'm not positive on Wake, but they did say a 34 year old on Defense.....

I agree it is a high pick, but they said he could step in NOW and help with these younger guys.
Let's face it, this bend but not break shit aint getting it done!!!!

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I also heard, Cameron Wake from Miami....

I'm not positive on Wake, but they did say a 34 year old on Defense.....

I agree it is a high pick, but they said he could step in NOW and help with these younger guys.
Let's face it, this bend but not break shit aint getting it done!!!!

IDK... I think you could plug just about anyone, Sherman, Peterson, Talib, etc into this system and I'd bet they see the same results... The pass rush is non-existent which hangs this patty-cake soft secondary playing 15yds off the line of scrimmage out to dry. To me it feels like Butler is coaching scared half the time. He's so worried about covering up for the secondary's weaknesses that he abandons the pass rush and drops 7-8 into coverage. That's fine & dandy in moderation, but if he's doin it over 75-80% of the time its going to wear down the defense. I can't remember the numbers, but I read something about how Butler is not even close to blitzing the same amount that he did in 2015.

 

[Psych-Ward]

IDK... I think you could plug just about anyone, Sherman, Peterson, Talib, etc into this system and I'd bet they see the same results... The pass rush is non-existent which hangs this patty-cake soft secondary playing 15yds off the line of scrimmage out to dry. To me it feels like Butler is coaching scared half the time. He's so worried about covering up for the secondary's weaknesses that he abandons the pass rush and drops 7-8 into coverage. That's fine & dandy in moderation, but if he's doin it over 75-80% of the time its going to wear down the defense. I can't remember the numbers, but I read something about how Butler is not even close to blitzing the same amount that he did in 2015.

And without a doubt our run D is dying with Heyward out. We have no one on the D Line to make that big impact and it's killing the LBs....

IDK, just my thoughts from what I see.
They are talking about dangling some decent meat out for these guys!!!!

Do the Steelers have a player who could be traded at the deadline?

Tomlin and Butler need to go with what works and knock off all this bullshit of inventing some dumbass legendary D... It is not going to fuckin happen the way they think!!!!

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

And without a doubt our run D is dying with Heyward out. We have no one on the D Line to make that big impact and it's killing the LBs....

IDK, just my thoughts from what I see.
They are talking about dangling some decent meat out for these guys!!!!

Do the Steelers have a player who could be traded at the deadline?

Tomlin and Butler need to go with what works and knock off all this bullshit of inventing some dumbass legendary D... It is not going to fuckin happen the way they think!!!!

Wheaton is definitely worth the dangle... We talked about it earlier in this thread, but he's as good as gone this offseason. The emergence of Rogers & Coates has sealed that fate. Add in the return of Martavis Bryant, and Demarcus Ayers on the PS... Wheaton has nowhere to fit in. He had his chances but couldn't stay healthy.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Wheaton is definitely worth the dangle... We talked about it earlier in this thread, but he's as good as gone this offseason. The emergence of Rogers & Coates has sealed that fate. Add in the return of Martavis Bryant, and Demarcus Ayers on the PS... Wheaton has nowhere to fit in. He had his chances but couldn't stay healthy.

If only what to do with Wheaton was the biggest problem!!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

@FaCe-LeE-uS @ATL96Steeler

Heard this trade rumor over the weekend

Possible 2nd round pick for Joe Haden....rumor has it Cleveland is having a fire sale

There was another one, I will get back to you ASAP with it

I wouldn't do it...the CBs are talented, but young. The big problem is lack of consistent pass rush...I would gladly give up a 2nd rounder for a legit pass rusher right now....even if he only has 2-3 yrs left.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

And without a doubt our run D is dying with Heyward out. We have no one on the D Line to make that big impact and it's killing the LBs....

IDK, just my thoughts from what I see.
They are talking about dangling some decent meat out for these guys!!!!

Do the Steelers have a player who could be traded at the deadline?

Tomlin and Butler need to go with what works and knock off all this bullshit of inventing some dumbass legendary D... It is not going to fuckin happen the way they think!!!!

Bring heat, early and often...use Shazier's speed more bringing heat....they gotta rush at least 5 on passing downs.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Bring heat, early and often...use Shazier's speed more bringing heat....they gotta rush at least 5 on passing downs.

The other one I heard they were going after is Cameron Wake from Miami.....

Not sure how true it is, but it would be an upgrade to the pass rush that is very much needed!!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The other one I heard they were going after is Cameron Wake from Miami.....

Not sure how true it is, but it would be an upgrade to the pass rush that is very much needed!!!!

I could work with Wake...MIA plays more 4-3, but make him a 3rd down guy with one job...get the QB!

If Ben doesn't play vs BAL, the DEF HAS to scheme more aggressively.

 

[Psych-Ward]

I could work with Wake...MIA plays more 4-3, but make him a 3rd down guy with one job...get the QB!

If Ben doesn't play vs BAL, the DEF HAS to scheme more aggressively.

The D should work a little more aggressively either way.....
They should not be putting all this on the offense, Yea we have an offense that can put up 30+ points a game, but the D should not be depending on this on a weekly basis.

Ben has a shitty game, or gets hurt....we can't bank on those points. I think we can all agree this 'bend but not break' shit is FUBAR!!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I hate these fucking ties, but CIN at least didn't win in London so PIT is assured of no worse than a tie for 1st regardless of this outcome in BAL....Go Steelers...figure it out!...a win puts a little separation between 2nd place.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

The D should work a little more aggressively either way.....
They should not be putting all this on the offense, Yea we have an offense that can put up 30+ points a game, but the D should not be depending on this on a weekly basis.

Ben has a shitty game, or gets hurt....we can't bank on those points. I think we can all agree this 'bend but not break' shit is FUBAR!!!!

Agreed...