Breaking: Isaiah Thomas, More Traded to Lakers for Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance

[wildturkey]

They guaranteed space for TWO max player now. Why wait till the end of the season when they could get things done now?

Plus they got a first round pick out of the deal - something that would be near impossible to get in June/July

So? Having cap space doesn't guarantee you have players willing to use that cap space. We, as Lakers fans, should know that message loud and clear considering the majority of this decade has consisted of the Lakers having cap space and no player they want saying "yes". I just pointed out that teams that have signed max guys have often done it without having the space going in so clearly it isn't necessary to have it. What is important is having options to get it, which they already had. Clarkson and Nance have favorable contracts to be moved. KCP/Lopez themselves opens up a ton. Renouncing Randle and stretching Deng opens up more. All of those moves would still be there in July if they were needed. Why throw away Clarkson and Nance when there's still a very high possibility you strike out in 2018? You can keep them, build on what you have, and still move them in time for 2019 if need be. You keep all your assets until you know you can cash them in for something tangibly better. Cap space is not tangible. It's an empty promise

 

[trojanfan12]

Nance will be welcomed with open arms in Cleveland. They basically have 2 Tristan Thompson's now and Jordan Clarkson was really heating up lately. Makes you wonder how much of an upgrade over Clarkson, Thomas even is. It's an odd move, the odd moves aren't stopping just because Jim Buss isn't at the helm anymore it seems.

There's nothing odd about it. They replaced 2 players who weren't part of their future plans with another player who isn't part of their future plans and who has an expiring deal that frees up the cap space for 2 max players. The move also brings them a 1st round pick (which they didn't have this year) that can be kept and used or maybe shipped to another team with Deng's contract tied to it to clear up even more space.

Magic and Pelinka have made no secret that their the goal this season was to clear cap space and that everyone not named Lonzo, Ingram or Kuzma were on the trading block. Not sure why some seem surprised.

The only reason it seems odd is because after 5 years of Jim Buss, we're not used to a competent front office that actually sets goals and does the work to reach them instead of just expecting them to work out because "we're the Lakers."

 

[trojanfan12]

Does anyone actually think adding Lebron and PG this offseason makes the Lakers a top 4 team in the WC? Because it doesn't. They needed nice little role players, exactly like Clarckson and Nance, in order for that to happen. And Lebron and PG are aware of that too and it is why you won't see a bonanza this offseason for the Lakers.

Wrong. Adding Lebron and PG to what the Lakers already have, as well as a couple of solid vets, absolutely makes the Lakers a top 4 team in the West.

Clarkson and Nance are nice players, but they have skill sets that are easily replaced. In fact, the Lakers already have 2 players who are better versions of Clarkson and Nance in Hart and Kuzma.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

The Cavs' newfound depth looks good on them. In the process of blowing the Celtics out in their own building. Bron might do so well this season that he won't want to leave Cleveland in the first place. He's got to be happy with what the front office has done with this team.

 

[lebron23james]

The Cavs' newfound depth looks good on them. In the process of blowing the Celtics out in their own building. Bron might do so well this season that he won't want to leave Cleveland in the first place. He's got to be happy with what the front office has done with this team.

Yea, i don't know who was doubting this trade in the first place lol. The lakers pieces are good. I really like clarkson and nance, and Hood and Hill was a huge pickup. The average age went from 31 to 27.

 

[lebron23james]

Seems to me with both trades the Cavs made they came out on the short end.

Did you watch the game?

 

[Montalban]

Did you watch the game?

Yes. The Warriors crushed the Spurs.

 

[tlance]

Man, if the Cavs get hot right now, it will be a very bad look for IT.

I wonder what his contract will look like next year. Not sure I have ever seen an impending FA lose this much value this quickly. Hopefully, for his sake, he gets some back in LA.

 

[wildturkey]

Man, if the Cavs get hot right now, it will be a very bad look for IT.

I wonder what his contract will look like next year. Not sure I have ever seen an impending FA lose this much value this quickly. Hopefully, for his sake, he gets some back in LA.

I don't see how it hurts him if the Cavs get hot. It wasn't just him. They had a ton of dudes that couldn't shoot 3s or defend. Now they do and we've seen throughout his career that Lebron is at his absolute best surrounded by shooters. What will hurt IT the most is if he doesn't put up numbers with LA and they absolutely tank the last 25 games. Like if he struggles to shoot or puts up inefficient stat lines and they go like 7-18 to close out the season, he won't be able to make draw the contract offers people thought he could garner this time last year.

 

[tlance]

I don't see how it hurts him if the Cavs get hot. It wasn't just him. They had a ton of dudes that couldn't shoot 3s or defend. Now they do and we've seen throughout his career that Lebron is at his absolute best surrounded by shooters. What will hurt IT the most is if he doesn't put up numbers with LA and they absolutely tank the last 25 games. Like if he struggles to shoot or puts up inefficient stat lines and they go like 7-18 to close out the season, he won't be able to make draw the contract offers people thought he could garner this time last year.

Well,

They were rolling before IT came back, then they went in the tank.

No, it wasn't just him, but when he came back, Love basically got deleted from the offense and locker room issues began to become apparent.

Clarkson and Nance are good for the Cavs, but IT was essentially a salary dump. Max players don't get salary dumped. If free agency started today, IT would probably get something like 45 million over 3 years. A far cry from what he would have gotten this off season.

 

[larryjohn]

Man, if the Cavs get hot right now, it will be a very bad look for IT.
I wonder what his contract will look like next year. Not sure I have ever seen an impending FA lose this much value this quickly. Hopefully, for his sake, he gets some back in LA.

I got more respect for Stevens after watching IT with the Cavs. IT's defense is epically bad -- somehow Brad covered it up last year. (and it helps if IT is great offensively) Lue couldn't cover it up with the old makeup of the Cavs.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

So...

HUGE Cavs fan here.

Larry Nance Jr in Cleveland. Born in Akron, OH. Lee Brown James in Cleveland. Born in Akron, OH. Steph Curry also born in Akron, OH.

Akron, OH: the cradle of basketball excellence.

Nance Jr is psyched to be "home." Pretty clear this trade makes the Cavs the team to beat in the NBA. They waltzed right into Boston Garden and laid thier schvanzes on Kyree Irvin's face on Paul Pierce Day.

Smell the glove, hater bitches!

 

[shopson67]

So what? Any player can get injured at any time. That's no reason to rush into things. That's a total non issue.



No, it didn't. There are always teams available to take on scraps when another team is shedding salary. Look at any big time free agent and see how the teams juggled money to get them. Both times Lebron James moved, the teams made moves to accommodate him. More recently, look at Kevin Durant and Chris Paul. Did the Warriors shed space at the deadline in order to save it for KD? No. They went into the summer, got him to agree, and then let Barnes walk and traded Bogut among other things to make the room. Did the Rockets free up space for Paul? No. They met with him that summer, we're getting ready to clear out some guys, and then CP3's agent realized it would be better for his client to opt in and they traded for him. So all the guys the Rockets were going to ship out to other teams ended up going to the Clippers. And guess what? The Rockets are gonna do the same thing for Lebron this summer too. They'll meet with him, if he says yes, they will then proceed to shed all the necessary components to make it happen. Study the Rockets in general. They're cap wizards and have done this several times taking advantage of the cap and various loopholes to make moves without sacrificing assets to just hoard space. There's zero reason the Lakers couldn't do the same thing. They would have cap for 1 max guy just by letting KCP/Lopez leave. They could have shed the rest if 2 guys (and we're really just talking Lebron and George) said yes. There's no rule saying you don't get to meet with FAs unless you're under the cap. Going in with cap space just means you have cap space. It guarantees NOTHING. Teams capped out still find ways to get top guys. We've seen it plenty.

Warriors had the necessary cap space entering the summer for Durant after trading Bogut for a TPE and a conditional 2nd rounder, but that contract was only $7.8M. Take a look at the available cap space for all the teams in NBA for 2018 and tell me who was going to take on Clarkson's $12.5M.

NBA 2018-2019 Cap Tracker

Every team in the league would have to renounce free agents to do so, and the Lakers would've been unlikely to get a 1st round draft pick as a result, and definitely not a 2018 pick. Obviously, Nance is an easier move. The move is cleaner and easier now using expiring contracts. The Lakers are ahead of the curve instead of behind it.

Houston can't afford Lebron and still field a team. They would have to convince CP3 (and likely Lebron) to take pay cuts to try to make it work. Nobody wants Ryan Anderson's contract, so that's a lock. Gordon's $13.5M won't be an easy move either. So, you've got $64.3M for 3 players, plus CP3's $39M cap hold, and you're already over the $101M cap. Where does Lebron's $33.3M come from? If he gets that, CP3 isn't coming back for a few mil. And of this is assuming they jettison Tucker, Nene, and Onuaku, while renouncing Ariza, Capella, Black, Green, Mbah a Moute, and there is an incomplete roster cap hold to deal with as well.

 

[shopson67]

So? Having cap space doesn't guarantee you have players willing to use that cap space. We, as Lakers fans, should know that message loud and clear considering the majority of this decade has consisted of the Lakers having cap space and no player they want saying "yes". I just pointed out that teams that have signed max guys have often done it without having the space going in so clearly it isn't necessary to have it. What is important is having options to get it, which they already had. Clarkson and Nance have favorable contracts to be moved. KCP/Lopez themselves opens up a ton. Renouncing Randle and stretching Deng opens up more. All of those moves would still be there in July if they were needed. Why throw away Clarkson and Nance when there's still a very high possibility you strike out in 2018? You can keep them, build on what you have, and still move them in time for 2019 if need be. You keep all your assets until you know you can cash them in for something tangibly better. Cap space is not tangible. It's an empty promise

Why trade away Clarkson and Nance when you can just renounce Randle for nothing later? Is that a real question? They may end up doing both. Nance and Clarkson are depth on the Lakers roster, nothing more. Surely most (if not all) Laker fans became attached to these guys, but things have to change to move forward.

It's always to better to move assets when you can get peak value for them. That would not have been at the last minute.

 

[shopson67]

Man, if the Cavs get hot right now, it will be a very bad look for IT.

I wonder what his contract will look like next year. Not sure I have ever seen an impending FA lose this much value this quickly. Hopefully, for his sake, he gets some back in LA.

It's not just about IT. It's about IT, Wade, Crowder, Rose, Shumpert, and Frye. Hill is going to be a defensive upgrade at PG over a lot of guys, let alone IT.

 

[shopson67]

The Cavs' newfound depth looks good on them. In the process of blowing the Celtics out in their own building. Bron might do so well this season that he won't want to leave Cleveland in the first place. He's got to be happy with what the front office has done with this team.

He still hates ownership, and this roster still isn't up to par with the Warriors. Best case they lose in the finals again, unless the Warriors screw up and don't get there.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Man, I wake up this morning, turn on the tv...and people are talking about JC and Larry like they are God's gift to role players, while they were considered solid at best while in LA

These players had to create their own shots in LA. Now they get to play with LeBron. Big difference.

He still hates ownership, and this roster still isn't up to par with the Warriors. Best case they lose in the finals again, unless the Warriors screw up and don't get there.

I'll give a LeBron team with depth a chance every time. Just putting up a fight could do a lot, especially with that Nets pick coming down the pipe.

 

[Kold]

These players had to create their own shots in LA. Now they get to play with LeBron. Big difference.



I'll give a LeBron team with depth a chance every time. Just putting up a fight could do a lot, especially with that Nets pick coming down the pipe.

Well, I agree on the Lebron part....but I guess my thing is that I see them being the same players. JC comes off the bench and gets buckets. Nance was an energy guy for us that got his stuff off the pick and roll. They definitely benefit from playing with Lebron, but I don't see much difference in their roles in Cleveland

 

[Kold]

As for the whole cap space argument, I look at it like this....Golden St. would of been fools to trade Harrison Barnes that year because they had a title contending team. We don't have a contending team, therefore it's not a big deal to me if they moved JC and Nance, this year or the next

 

[tlance]

It's not just about IT. It's about IT, Wade, Crowder, Rose, Shumpert, and Frye. Hill is going to be a defensive upgrade at PG over a lot of guys, let alone IT.

I know it isn't just about him, but like I said, they were playing well with all those guys when Isaiah was out.