Bloodline

[Omar 382]

An anti-hero is still heroic. What's Rayburn done that would qualify?

Ummmmm.....

an·ti·he·ro

1. a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes.

 

[chf]

Ummmmm.....

an·ti·he·ro

1. a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes.

'Who lacks CONVENTIONAL heroic attributes.' Thus he/she has UNCONVENTIONAL heroic attributes.

So what are Rayburn's heroic attributes?

 

[chf]

New moral center of the show. S2 EP 7

Teenage daughter Rayburn to Mom and Dad. 'What is wrong with you people? This family is so fucked up.'

Heh.

 

[Omar 382]

'Who lacks CONVENTIONAL heroic attributes.' Thus he/she has UNCONVENTIONAL heroic attributes.

So what are Rayburn's heroic attributes?

Stopping criminals, protecting his family

 

[chf]

Stopping criminals, protecting his family

He should arrest himself then.

Are all cops heroes?

And he's not protecting his family, he's tearing them apart. Making them even more fucked up. Kind of the theme of the show.

 

[johnson]

Okay, based on the recommendation of the group, I powered through season one of this.

Excellent acting and technical production. I enjoy the quality of the writing, but holy Shakespeare's balls, these people are impossible to root for. ALL of them with the exception of some of the minor characters are just A-holes who deserve every bad thing that happens to them.

It's to the point where just like I rooted for the bugs to kill everyone in Starship Troopers, I want all these fvckers to die, and am just tuning in to see how it happens.

4 episodes in to season two, and they don't even seem to want to redeem any of them. So where in GOT, you actually end up liking Jamie Lannister forinstance, I can't stand any of these entitled whiny Floridians.

I'm at the same spot and totally agree. Last season I kind of liked John, Meg and Kevin...at this point, I'm not sure I like anyone in the whole show (Meg I still have hope for). Without a single character to care whether they live or die (this is why I stopped watching House of Cards)...hard to maintain interest.

The kid playing Nolan is perfect though. Great casting.

 

[Omar 382]

Just kind of confused about John's evilness in comparison to Tony Soprano and Walter White

Tony Soprano

• Made a living off of illicit activities, including racketeering and drug sales
• Killed tons of people himself and ordered tons of people to be killed
• Caused Meadow's boyfriend to break up with her
• Cheated numerous times on his wife, causing her to divorce him and alienate his children

Walter White

• Illegally sold methamphetamine for his own satisfaction
• Killed tons of people himself and ordered tons of people to be killed, including Gale, who did not threaten to harm Walter
• Let a young woman overdose (I understand his intentions were not purely evil in this instance, but he still let Jane die which devastated her father)
• Shamed his entire family
• Let Skyler be involved in his illicit activities
• Poisoned a child
• Tried to throw his uncle under the bus when he was caught
• After killing Krazy-8, he shows no remorse about killing anyone; truly morphing into a psychopath

John Rayburn

• Works for the law
• Only breaks the law when Danny comes home and fucks everything up
• Breaks the law to protect his mother and the inn from being shamed and brought down
• Loves his family; doesn't cheat on his wife
• Doesn't want to mudsling the current sheriff about the domestic abuse incident
• Kills Danny in a fit of rage
• Struggles morally with Danny's death; seeing Danny as a ghost
• Allows the Fed's to go to Wayne Lowry's house, knowing full well he could be busted

 

[Omar 382]

He should arrest himself then.

Are all cops heroes?

And he's not protecting his family, he's tearing them apart. Making them even more fucked up. Kind of the theme of the show.

Yes, but is that entirely his fault? Did he ask Danny to come home and smuggle coke for Wayne Lowry at his parent's inn?

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think anyone called him evil.

He is just a pretentious fuck. Soprano and White were worse people. But they were more entertaining to watch.

I am far enough for not the season now to see John get torn down a bit. I still don't like him, though.

 

[Omar 382]

I don't think anyone called him evil.

He is just a pretentious fuck. Soprano and White were worse people. But they were more entertaining to watch.

I am far enough for not the season now to see John get torn down a bit. I still don't like him, though.

I'll agree that WW is far a better character, but I much prefer Kyle Chandler's performance to Jim Gandolfini's. I guess just a personal thing.

I'll admit that I had my doubts for season 2 after what happened in the first season, but I think Chandler has carried the show on his back. Add in Kevin's struggles, the crazy Mexican, and the Danny flashbacks and ghost appearances, and I'm really enjoying it.

 

[chf]

Yes, but is that entirely his fault? Did he ask Danny to come home and smuggle coke for Wayne Lowry at his parent's inn?

Of course it's not all his fault. And that's my point. None of these people is sympathetic. They're purposely written to be hard to root for.

Now I suspect that

Spoiler

the reveal of the new big bad being in possession of the tapes

may bring about some kind of change with the family.

 

[theboardref]

Hey guys I just began season two like as we speak, should I expect it to be on par with season 1?

 

[calsnowskier]

Of course it's not all his fault. And that's my point. None of these people is sympathetic. They're purposely written to be hard to root for.

Now I suspect that

Spoiler

the reveal of the new big bad being in possession of the tapes

may bring about some kind of change with the family.

You may have captured it perfectly.

Walter was not sympathetic, but he was swimming in a shark tank, so you might as well root for him. It was fun to watch the rise of an every-man to drug kingpin, and watch as he slowly evolved in every possible manner.

Tony was a gangster, but again, he was swimming with other gangsters.

John was a part of the original sin that started the ball rolling. He is a pretentious fuck. He is becoming a corrupt politician (I an only about 7 or 8 eps in, so this may just be a short stop on his arc). The other people in the story (his partner, his wife, his mother to an extent...) are all more sympathetic. Even Danny was arguably more sympathetic, because of the original sin.

 

[calsnowskier]

Hey guys I just began season two like as we speak, should I expect it to be on par with season 1?

As much as I complain about the show, I still think it is a solid 7/10.

It just has a bunch of unlikable characters and the pacing to too slow.

 

[theboardref]

As much as I complain about the show, I still think it is a solid 7/10.

It just has a bunch of unlikable characters and the pacing to too slow.

I agree with you in both cases, multiple times I was fixing to turn off the show yet they always reeled me back in. I don't know if it was by design to compensate for a great show or its by design but whatever it is, it just seems to work.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm at the same spot and totally agree. Last season I kind of liked John, Meg and Kevin...at this point, I'm not sure I like anyone in the whole show (Meg I still have hope for). Without a single character to care whether they live or die (this is why I stopped watching House of Cards)...hard to maintain interest.

The kid playing Nolan is perfect though. Great casting.

I agree that there is nobody to root for... But the problem is that everyone against the family is also awful people... the competition for Sheriff is another corrupt officer... and then they turn the one good cop into a corrupt unlikable officer too?? they are trying to make us root for the family out of default...

 

[Omar 382]

You may have captured it perfectly.

Walter was not sympathetic, but he was swimming in a shark tank, so you might as well root for him. It was fun to watch the rise of an every-man to drug kingpin, and watch as he slowly evolved in every possible manner.

Tony was a gangster, but again, he was swimming with other gangsters.

John was a part of the original sin that started the ball rolling. He is a pretentious fuck. He is becoming a corrupt politician (I an only about 7 or 8 eps in, so this may just be a short stop on his arc). The other people in the story (his partner, his wife, his mother to an extent...) are all more sympathetic. Even Danny was arguably more sympathetic, because of the original sin.

Danny is a far better character, IMO, but claiming John is worse than Danny is laughable. Because John lied to the cops? When he was a kid? When his parents told him to do so, the same parent who just beat the shit out of your brother? Come on.

As far as we know, John never did anything completely immoral before Danny came home. Yes, he's covering his tracks, but they have humanized him. He has remorse. And he takes responsibility for his actions. Not some Tony Soprano bullshit: "My mom was mean to me, and my dad was in the mob, so I'm in the mob and kill people and cheat on my wife."

 

[calsnowskier]

You think John is a cool character to center a TV show around.

Many of us disagree and feel he is completely unlikable.

Fair enough. Time to move on...

 

[johnson]

I agree that there is nobody to root for... But the problem is that everyone against the family is also awful people... the competition for Sheriff is another corrupt officer... and then they turn the one good cop into a corrupt unlikable officer too?? they are trying to make us root for the family out of default...

Very true. I'm 8 episodes in now and I have to admit I'm starting to like, or at least sympathize with, Danny's son Nolan and even Kevin to some extent. Meg is still on my OK list. Can't stand Sally. Heard the ending is really good...we shall see.

 

[johnson]

Just kind of confused about John's evilness in comparison to Tony Soprano and Walter White

Tony Soprano

• Made a living off of illicit activities, including racketeering and drug sales
• Killed tons of people himself and ordered tons of people to be killed
• Caused Meadow's boyfriend to break up with her
• Cheated numerous times on his wife, causing her to divorce him and alienate his children

Walter White

• Illegally sold methamphetamine for his own satisfaction
• Killed tons of people himself and ordered tons of people to be killed, including Gale, who did not threaten to harm Walter
• Let a young woman overdose (I understand his intentions were not purely evil in this instance, but he still let Jane die which devastated her father)
• Shamed his entire family
• Let Skyler be involved in his illicit activities
• Poisoned a child
• Tried to throw his uncle under the bus when he was caught
• After killing Krazy-8, he shows no remorse about killing anyone; truly morphing into a psychopath

John Rayburn

• Works for the law
• Only breaks the law when Danny comes home and fucks everything up
• Breaks the law to protect his mother and the inn from being shamed and brought down
• Loves his family; doesn't cheat on his wife
• Doesn't want to mudsling the current sheriff about the domestic abuse incident
• Kills Danny in a fit of rage
• Struggles morally with Danny's death; seeing Danny as a ghost
• Allows the Fed's to go to Wayne Lowry's house, knowing full well he could be busted

Pretty good bullet points. If you want a really bad cop (but one far more entertaining one) I'd point you to Vic Mackey in The Shield.