Bloodline

[Omar 382]

Just finished Part 15. It's not great

Spoiler

without Danny

but it still is decent with Chandler's acting along with Rubio

 

[chf]

Okay, based on the recommendation of the group, I powered through season one of this.

Excellent acting and technical production. I enjoy the quality of the writing, but holy Shakespeare's balls, these people are impossible to root for. ALL of them with the exception of some of the minor characters are just A-holes who deserve every bad thing that happens to them.

It's to the point where just like I rooted for the bugs to kill everyone in Starship Troopers, I want all these fvckers to die, and am just tuning in to see how it happens.

4 episodes in to season two, and they don't even seem to want to redeem any of them. So where in GOT, you actually end up liking Jamie Lannister forinstance, I can't stand any of these entitled whiny Floridians.

 

[calsnowskier]

Okay, based on the recommendation of the group, I powered through season one of this.

Excellent acting and technical production. I enjoy the quality of the writing, but holy Shakespeare's balls, these people are impossible to root for. ALL of them with the exception of some of the minor characters are just A-holes who deserve every bad thing that happens to them.

It's to the point where just like I rooted for the bugs to kill everyone in Starship Troopers, I want all these fvckers to die, and am just tuning in to see how it happens.

4 episodes in to season two, and they don't even seem to want to redeem any of them. So where in GOT, you actually end up liking Jamie Lannister forinstance, I can't stand any of these entitled whiny Floridians.

Good summation.

Like you said, the writing is solid, the acting is top notch, the technical gobbledy-gook is spot-on, etc, etc, etc.

But the pacing is WAY too slow and I hate everyone.

I am only 3 eps into S2, and I dont go home excited to get to the next ep. Not a good sign.

 

[chf]

Good summation.

Like you said, the writing is solid, the acting is top notch, the technical gobbledy-gook is spot-on, etc, etc, etc.

But the pacing is WAY too slow and I hate everyone.

I am only 3 eps into S2, and I dont go home excited to get to the next ep. Not a good sign.

I don't even mind the pacing, it fits with the whole Keys vibe. But just people with no redeeming qualities. I want to find something to like in them, but then one will open his/her mouth, and it's like... nope.

I sorta thought maybe Sissy Spacek was going to be a good person, but then she got added to the bad Santa list too.

 

[Omar 382]

It's not so much about whether or not they're morally sound characters. Look at The Sopranos, there were really no good main characters outside of maybe Carmella, but it was widely popular. Kyle Chandler is a great character, and Danny is one of the best characters of all time. They're bad asses who are given great dialogue- who gives a fuck if they're not moral people? Do you guys not like Walter White? Stringer Bell?

 

[chf]

It's not so much about whether or not they're morally sound characters. Look at The Sopranos, there were really no good main characters outside of maybe Carmella, but it was widely popular. Kyle Chandler is a great character, and Danny is one of the best characters of all time. They're bad asses who are given great dialogue- who gives a fuck if they're not moral people? Do you guys not like Walter White? Stringer Bell?

I'm not saying that they have to be goody-two-shoes. I used the example of Game of Thrones with Jamie Lannister, who screws his sister, and pushes 10 year old boys out of tower windows. Not a nice guy. But eventually the books (and the show) redeem him to a certain extent, so that even though they're very flawed, you still root for them to succeed.

I don't root for any of the characters in Bloodline to succeed. At least not so far.

What's one redeeming quality that any of the siblings have?

Tony Soprano forinstance was loyal to his family. Well besides sleeping around obviously. You get the impression that any of the remaining 3 siblings in the Rayburn family would sell the others out in a heartbeat. Just like good ol' Mom n' Dad did when they were kids.

Go team!

 

[Omar 382]

I'm not saying that they have to be goody-two-shoes. I used the example of Game of Thrones with Jamie Lannister, who screws his sister, and pushes 10 year old boys out of tower windows. Not a nice guy. But eventually the books (and the show) redeem him to a certain extent, so that even though they're very flawed, you still root for them to succeed.

I don't root for any of the characters in Bloodline to succeed. At least not so far.

What's one redeeming quality that any of the siblings have?

Tony Soprano forinstance was loyal to his family. Well besides sleeping around obviously. You get the impression that any of the remaining 3 siblings in the Rayburn family would sell the others out in a heartbeat. Just like good ol' Mom n' Dad did when they were kids.

Go team!

I disagree. All three family members were trying to protect their family by telling Danny to leave so the inn wouldn't get busted. And Danny is a very sympathetic character being the black sheep of the family who just wanted to be accepted by his family.

I'm not saying they're good people, but they're not fucking Skyler White either, IMO.

 

[calsnowskier]

I disagree. All three family members were trying to protect their family by telling Danny to leave so the inn wouldn't get busted. And Danny is a very sympathetic character being the black sheep of the family who just wanted to be accepted by his family.

I'm not saying they're good people, but they're not fucking Skyler White either, IMO.

Good comparison, even if you dont think it is.

Walter White was a bad ass on a bad ass show.

Tony Soprano was a flawed boss in a world that no longer looked at bosses the same way they did 30-40 years prior.

John Rayburn is small town asshole cop who bullies his family out of some kind of holier-than-thou attitude.

Sorry, John Rayburn is unlikable on a personal level. Tony had flaws, but he was real, and you could see that most of what he did came from some kind of love. Same with Walt. John is just an asshole.

 

[Omar 382]

Good comparison, even if you dont think it is.

Walter White was a bad ass on a bad ass show.

Tony Soprano was a flawed boss in a world that no longer looked at bosses the same way they did 30-40 years prior.

John Rayburn is small town asshole cop who bullies his family out of some kind of holier-than-thou attitude.

Sorry, John Rayburn is unlikable on a personal level. Tony had flaws, but he was real, and you could see that most of what he did came from some kind of love. Same with Walt. John is just an asshole.

You're off on Tony, and wayyyyyy off on Walter.

Tony was not a good person. I don't care if he provided for his family. He was a dick to Meadow's black boyfriend, cheated numerous times on his wife, and killed people. He was hedonistic and not a likable person. He's not the worst person ever, as he did seem to love his family, albeit not fully, but he really is not a person to root for, and the show acknowledged that by killing him.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with Walter. He was a sociopath who 1. lied to his family 2. killed a lot of people 3. poisoned a child 4. involved his wife in his illicit activities 5. tried to throw his innocent brother-in-law under the bus when he got caught.

Walt literally said in the series finale: "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it." The whole point of BB is that Walter was so tired of being shit on in life that he killed others and broke the laws to feel empowered and have a purpose in life. It had nothing to do with providing for his family.

 

[Omar 382]

John Rayburn:
Loves his wife and kids and does everything to protect them
Loves his mom
Wants to protect the Inn and his mom from Danny's stupid illicit activities
Fights criminals through his job
Only kills Danny in a fit of rage; not pre-meditated

 

[chf]

I disagree. All three family members were trying to protect their family by telling Danny to leave so the inn wouldn't get busted. And Danny is a very sympathetic character being the black sheep of the family who just wanted to be accepted by his family.

I'm not saying they're good people, but they're not fucking Skyler White either, IMO.

Heh, Skyler White was just trying to protect her family.

 

[chf]

Only kills Danny in a fit of rage; not pre-meditated

Then why'd he let the contract killer try to take him out?

 

[Omar 382]

Then why'd he let the contract killer try to take him out?

In the motel? I trul don't remember that because I haven't seen the first season in a year, but even so, yeah he's an asshole. But he's not the worst, certainly not as immoral as Tony Soprano or Walter White

 

[chf]

In the motel? I trul don't remember that because I haven't seen the first season in a year, but even so, yeah he's an asshole. But he's not the worst, certainly not as immoral as Tony Soprano or Walter White

Sure, but Tony is TRYING to be better. And Walter has that whole 'life shit on him' excuse. What's Rayburn's excuse? He's been the golden child. From THE family.

 

[chf]

And don't get me wrong Omar. I like the show. It's VEEEERY Shakespearean. We've even got ghosts in season two. And I even like the bleakness to an extent. It's very real life in its 'Sins of the Fathers,' generational echoes vibe.

It's just the show doesn't let you off, doesn't leave any room for hope.

No Country for Old Men was like that too, and it was, imo, brilliant. 'Here's the shit sandwich that is life, now flip a coin sucker!'

But NCFOM was only 2 hours.

Sometimes, as much as I admire the craft, it gets exhausting watching Bloodline.

Other than the cop boyfriend, I don't see anybody to root for, or even hope for.

They're all going to end up badly.

 

[calsnowskier]

And don't get me wrong Omar. I like the show. It's VEEEERY Shakespearean. We've even got ghosts in season two. And I even like the bleakness to an extent. It's very real life in its 'Sins of the Fathers,' generational echoes vibe.

It's just the show doesn't let you off, doesn't leave any room for hope.

No Country for Old Men was like that too, and it was, imo, brilliant. 'Here's the shit sandwich that is life, now flip a coin sucker!'

But NCFOM was only 2 hours.

Sometimes, as much as I admire the craft, it gets exhausting watching Bloodline.

Other than the cop boyfriend, I don't see anybody to root for, or even hope for.

They're all going to end up badly.

Sarah was in S1...

 

[calsnowskier]

You're off on Tony, and wayyyyyy off on Walter.

Tony was not a good person. I don't care if he provided for his family. He was a dick to Meadow's black boyfriend, cheated numerous times on his wife, and killed people. He was hedonistic and not a likable person. He's not the worst person ever, as he did seem to love his family, albeit not fully, but he really is not a person to root for, and the show acknowledged that by killing him.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with Walter. He was a sociopath who 1. lied to his family 2. killed a lot of people 3. poisoned a child 4. involved his wife in his illicit activities 5. tried to throw his innocent brother-in-law under the bus when he got caught.

Walt literally said in the series finale: "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it." The whole point of BB is that Walter was so tired of being shit on in life that he killed others and broke the laws to feel empowered and have a purpose in life. It had nothing to do with providing for his family.

First, Tony never died. At least not clearly.

Tony was a loving person. Just in a convoluted, distorted way. He was a racist, that is why he did not like Meadows bf. He loved his gang-brothers, probably more than his family. He also was well aware that his morals were all whacked, thus his sessions with Melfi.

As chf stated, I am not saying he is a classic hero or a likeable person. I would have been 100% totally OK with the story if he did, in fact, die in the finale. He would have deserved it. But I understood his actions (for the most part).

John, again, is just a holier-than-thou jack-hole who was old enough when the original sin occurred to know better and still acts like Danny is the ultimate bad-guy. If the show centered on Danny, and his struggles (and failures) of dealing with "the event" and the aftermath, I could get behind that. But having John be the effective central character makes the show harder to get behind. I just find him completely unlikable.

This all said, I am only 3 eps into S2. Maybe there are big character shifts this season that will address these concerns I have. But as it sits now, Bloodline does not belong in a discussion that includes any of the GREAT anti-hero shows (Sopranos, BB, BCS, Shield, etc).

 

[Omar 382]

First, Tony never died. At least not clearly.

Tony was a loving person. Just in a convoluted, distorted way. He was a racist, that is why he did not like Meadows bf. He loved his gang-brothers, probably more than his family. He also was well aware that his morals were all whacked, thus his sessions with Melfi.

As chf stated, I am not saying he is a classic hero or a likeable person. I would have been 100% totally OK with the story if he did, in fact, die in the finale. He would have deserved it. But I understood his actions (for the most part).

John, again, is just a holier-than-thou jack-hole who was old enough when the original sin occurred to know better and still acts like Danny is the ultimate bad-guy. If the show centered on Danny, and his struggles (and failures) of dealing with "the event" and the aftermath, I could get behind that. But having John be the effective central character makes the show harder to get behind. I just find him completely unlikable.

This all said, I am only 3 eps into S2. Maybe there are big character shifts this season that will address these concerns I have. But as it sits now, Bloodline does not belong in a discussion that includes any of the GREAT anti-hero shows (Sopranos, BB, BCS, Shield, etc).

I disagree. Danny Rayburn is a top 5 TV anti-hero of all time. The fact that he was killed in the first season doesn't change that, same as Jimmy Darmedy in S2 of BE or Stringer Bell in S3 of The Wire.

Not to spoil anything, but check in after the 4th episode. There is slight redemption in the show

 

[chf]

I disagree. Danny Rayburn is a top 5 TV anti-hero of all time. The fact that he was killed in the first season doesn't change that, same as Jimmy Darmedy in S2 of BE or Stringer Bell in S3 of The Wire.

Not to spoil anything, but check in after the 4th episode. There is slight redemption in the show

An anti-hero is still heroic. What's Rayburn done that would qualify?

 

[calsnowskier]

An anti-hero is still heroic. What's Rayburn done that would qualify?

He treats everyone he comes in contact with like shit.


Well, like someone else's shit, seeing as HIS shit don't stink.