Bill Russell is the GOAT

[BOTSLAYER]

IMO, for a while I had Kareem at #1 because longevity outlasted Russel's amazing career. Also Offense was allegedly not Russel's forte...well that bothered me, his stats were not great if you compare them to today.

His career FG% was probably good enough for top 15-20 and his PPG were also good for about the same. Couple that with his D, rebounding and over all league dominance and that is the GOAT.

Make your case for GOAT over Bill Russel.

Bill Russel has more rings, 5 MVPs was a defensive phenom even by todays standards and by the standards then he was an efficient offensive player. His college career was also better than almost anybody's.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Bill Russell NBA & ABA Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Scroll to the bottom you can see he was top 5 in the beginning of his career and his efficiency didn't drop but the league seemed to have gotten better.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

OK, in basketball, scoring and rebounding are very important, but you have to be good in BOTH of those categories and among other things in order to be considered the best. We all know that Jordan was a great scorer. He was also a good rebounder. Jordan’s 6.2 career average for rebounds is good among guards, especially shooting guards. His career high for rebounds in a game is 18 and in the season 8.0 rpg, both great statistics among guards. So here I ask a question: How can Russell be the best when he was a BAD offensive player? He never averaged more than 20 points in a season. His career average in points is 15.1. Not bad at first sight, until you look at his 44.0 FG %, which, for a center, is TERRIBLE, I repeat, TERRIBLE. It’s very unusual for a center to shoot less than 50.0 FG %. Take a look at other great centers. Wilt shot 54.0 %. Kareem shot 55.9 %. Parish shot 53.7 %. Hakeem shot 51.2 %. Ewing shot 50.4 %. Robinson shot 51.8 %. Shaq shot 58.1 %. Jordan, a guard, has a career 49.7 FG% and had 6 seasons shooting over 50.0 FG % and at the same time averaging over 30.0 ppg. Russell was also a terrible free throw shooter. So seriously, which is better: a player averaging 30.0 ppg, 50.0 FG % and 84.0 FT % or a player averaging 15.0 ppg, 44.0 FG % and 56.1 FT %?

Do you want me to keep telling you why Russell wasn’t a complete a player? I ask you this: did Russell record a triple-double? Jordan was one of best all around players ever. Jordan has recorded 28 regular seasons triple-doubles (9th all time). In the 1987-88 season, Jordan led the league in points (35.0 ppg with 53.5 FG %), steals (3.2 spg), won the Defensive Player of the Year (unusual for a guard) AND the Regular Season MVP. He is the only player in NBA history to win the scoring title, Defensive Player of Year and Regular Season MVP in the same season. His 131 blocked shots in that season is a record among guards. He became the only player in NBA history to consecutively record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season. He accomplished all this in just one season while leading his team to the third seed in the East with 50 wins. In the 1988-89 season, while leading the league in scoring with 32.5 ppg (53.8 FG %), Jordan became one of only two players in NBA history to average at least 30.0 ppg, 8.0 rpg and 8.0 apg (the other player is Oscar Robertson). He recorded 15 triple-doubles, including 7 straight. In the last 24 games of the season, Jordan averaged 30.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg and 10.8 apg.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The GOAT has to be able to take over a game defensively AND offensively. Win some games solely based on defense and other games solely based on offense. Russell couldn't do that offensively.

 

[JDM]

OK, in basketball, scoring and rebounding are very important, but you have to be good in BOTH of those categories and among other things in order to be considered the best. We all know that Jordan was a great scorer. He was also a good rebounder. Jordan’s 6.2 career average for rebounds is good among guards, especially shooting guards. His career high for rebounds in a game is 18 and in the season 8.0 rpg, both great statistics among guards. So here I ask a question: How can Russell be the best when he was a BAD offensive player? He never averaged more than 20 points in a season. His career average in points is 15.1. Not bad at first sight, until you look at his 44.0 FG %, which, for a center, is TERRIBLE, I repeat, TERRIBLE. It’s very unusual for a center to shoot less than 50.0 FG %. Take a look at other great centers. Wilt shot 54.0 %. Kareem shot 55.9 %. Parish shot 53.7 %. Hakeem shot 51.2 %. Ewing shot 50.4 %. Robinson shot 51.8 %. Shaq shot 58.1 %. Jordan, a guard, has a career 49.7 FG% and had 6 seasons shooting over 50.0 FG % and at the same time averaging over 30.0 ppg. Russell was also a terrible free throw shooter. So seriously, which is better: a player averaging 30.0 ppg, 50.0 FG % and 84.0 FT % or a player averaging 15.0 ppg, 44.0 FG % and 56.1 FT %?

Do you want me to keep telling you why Russell wasn’t a complete a player? I ask you this: did Russell record a triple-double? Jordan was one of best all around players ever. Jordan has recorded 28 regular seasons triple-doubles (9th all time). In the 1987-88 season, Jordan led the league in points (35.0 ppg with 53.5 FG %), steals (3.2 spg), won the Defensive Player of the Year (unusual for a guard) AND the Regular Season MVP. He is the only player in NBA history to win the scoring title, Defensive Player of Year and Regular Season MVP in the same season. His 131 blocked shots in that season is a record among guards. He became the only player in NBA history to consecutively record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season. He accomplished all this in just one season while leading his team to the third seed in the East with 50 wins. In the 1988-89 season, while leading the league in scoring with 32.5 ppg (53.8 FG %), Jordan became one of only two players in NBA history to average at least 30.0 ppg, 8.0 rpg and 8.0 apg (the other player is Oscar Robertson). He recorded 15 triple-doubles, including 7 straight. In the last 24 games of the season, Jordan averaged 30.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg and 10.8 apg.

He did enough for his team to win the NBA championship 11 of his 13 years in the league. One of the two times they got eliminated he didn't play. This was a celtics team that had never won a championship before he got there and took several years to win again after he left. There is a grand total of one franchise with more rings than russel.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

He did enough for his team to win the NBA championship 11 of his 13 years in the league. One of the two times they got eliminated he didn't play. This was a celtics team that had never won a championship before he got there and took several years to win again after he left. There is a grand total of one franchise with more rings than russel.

First off Bill Russell was on a Hall of Fame Roster. This roster included Bob Cousy, Tom Heinsohn, Bill Sharman, Sam Jones, & John Havlicek. Michael Jordan had one Hall of Famer his first run (Scottie Pippen) and two Hall of Famers the second championship (Scottie Pippen & Dennis Rodman). Bill Russell did indeed play in a different era of basketball.

Go back and watch the competition Bill Russell was facing. Watch an old game and tell me that Bill Russell was a better player. Tell me that today or in the "Jordan Era" he would've out played MJ. That MJ wouldn't have dunked on him. That he could shutdown MJ.

Bill Russell had the most DOMINANT TEAM. Jordan was by far the more DOMINANT PLAYER.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Hide the wife and kids of HD sees this...

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Hide the wife and kids of HD sees this...

HIDE!

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Whos Bill Russel? DWIGHT HOWARD BABY!

 

[_Xer0_]

Wilt Chamberlain was 20 times the player Russel could ever hope of being.

 

[HammerDown]

Dumbest thread ever in the NBA forums.

Joe Barry Carroll > Bill Russell

Most overrated baseball player ever: Derek Jeter
Most overrated football player ever: Brett Favre
Most overrated basketball player ever: Bill Russell

 

[JDM]

First off Bill Russell was on a Hall of Fame Roster. This roster included Bob Cousy, Tom Heinsohn, Bill Sharman, Sam Jones, & John Havlicek. Michael Jordan had one Hall of Famer his first run (Scottie Pippen) and two Hall of Famers the second championship (Scottie Pippen & Dennis Rodman). Bill Russell did indeed play in a different era of basketball.

Go back and watch the competition Bill Russell was facing. Watch an old game and tell me that Bill Russell was a better player. Tell me that today or in the "Jordan Era" he would've out played MJ. That MJ wouldn't have dunked on him. That he could shutdown MJ.

Bill Russell had the most DOMINANT TEAM. Jordan was by far the more DOMINANT PLAYER.

11 championships will get some people into the hall of fame. If it was just surrounding talent, why did they lose the one year he was hurt, and not win either before or after he was on the team?

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

11 championships will get some people into the hall of fame. If it was just surrounding talent, why did they lose the one year he was hurt, and not win either before or after he was on the team?

Go take a look who came and went when. Then get back to us...

 

[HammerDown]

Put it this way...

Eric Montross > Bill Russell
Philip Seymor Hoffman > Bill Russell
Cherokee Parks > Bill Russell
Mike Smrek > Bill Russell
Olden Polynice > Bill Russell
Alton Lister > Bill Russell
Kwame Brown > Bill Russell
Cornbread Maxwell > Bill Russell
Nipsey Russel l> Bill Russell
Keri Russell > Bill Russell
Russell from "Honey I shrunk the Kids" > Bill Russell
Bryon Russell > Bill Russell
Kurt Russell > Bill Russell
Russell Crowe > Bill Russell
Russell Wilson > Bill Russell
Russell Simmons > Bill Russell
Washington Irving > Bill Russell
Irving Fryar > Bill Russell
Friar Tuck > Bill Russell
Tuck Everlasting > Bill Russell
Everlasting Gobstoppers > Bill Russell
Bob Lanier > Bill Russell
Mike Gminski > Bill Russell
Paul Mokeski > Bill Russell
Billy Paultz > Bill Russell
Kevin Duckworth > Bill Russell
Benoit Benjamin > Bill Russell
Danny Manning > Bill Russell
Mel Turpin > Bill Russell
Detlef "The German Giant" Schrempf > Bill Russell
Jack Sikma > Bill Russell
Artis Gilmore > Bill Russell
Frank Brickowski > Bill Russell
Wes Unseld > Bill Russell
Sam Perkins > Bill Russell
Hersey Hawkins > Bill Russell
Ricky Pierce > Bill Russell
Arvydas Sabonis > Bill Russell
Christian Laettner > Bill Russell
Scott Pollard > Bill Russell
Brad Daugherty > Bill Russell
'Nique > Bill Russell
Thurl Bailey > Bill Russell
Tree Rollins > Bill Russell
Roy Tarpley on gutter glitter > Bill Russell
Bill Wennington > Bill Russell
Jon Koncak > Bill Russell
Cliff Levingston > Bill Russell
Terry Cummings > Bill Russell
Kevin Willis > Bill Russell
Danny Schayes > Bill Russell
Alaa Abdelnaby > Bill Russell
Fred Roberts > Bill Russell
Orlando Woolridge > Bill Russell
Greg Oden > Bill Russell
Michael Olowokandi > Bill Russell
Sam Bowie > Bill Russell
Joe Barry Carroll > Bill Russell
Travis Outlaw > Bill Russell
Luke Walton > Bill Russell
Spencer Haywood > Bill Russell
Will Perdue > Bill Russell
Dickey Simpkins > Bill Russell
Jack Haley > Bill Russell
"Mad Dog" Mark Madsen > Bill Russell
Chris Jent > Bill Russell
Tom McMillen > Bill Russell
Bill Cartwright > Bill Russell

 

[_Xer0_]

Chamberlain flat out OWNED Russell when they played each other.

the reason Russels TEAMS won is because he had teams stacked with HoFers, while Wilt's teams were filled with scrubs who couldn't throw the ball in the ocean and got shut down by STACKED Celtics teams.

 

[HammerDown]

The Celtics, with Red as "El Capo" were the sports version of La Cosa Nostra. The very definition of organized crime.

"I never saw him play but Bill Russell was sooooooo amaaaaaaaazing!"

Bill Russell would have a very difficult time making a D-League roster in today's game.

 

[Brahmsian]

OK, in basketball, scoring and rebounding are very important, but you have to be good in BOTH of those categories and among other things in order to be considered the best. We all know that Jordan was a great scorer. He was also a good rebounder. Jordan’s 6.2 career average for rebounds is good among guards, especially shooting guards. His career high for rebounds in a game is 18 and in the season 8.0 rpg, both great statistics among guards. So here I ask a question: How can Russell be the best when he was a BAD offensive player? He never averaged more than 20 points in a season. His career average in points is 15.1. Not bad at first sight, until you look at his 44.0 FG %, which, for a center, is TERRIBLE, I repeat, TERRIBLE. It’s very unusual for a center to shoot less than 50.0 FG %. Take a look at other great centers. Wilt shot 54.0 %. Kareem shot 55.9 %. Parish shot 53.7 %. Hakeem shot 51.2 %. Ewing shot 50.4 %. Robinson shot 51.8 %. Shaq shot 58.1 %. Jordan, a guard, has a career 49.7 FG% and had 6 seasons shooting over 50.0 FG % and at the same time averaging over 30.0 ppg. Russell was also a terrible free throw shooter. So seriously, which is better: a player averaging 30.0 ppg, 50.0 FG % and 84.0 FT % or a player averaging 15.0 ppg, 44.0 FG %

Do you want me to keep telling you why Russell wasn’t a complete a player? I ask you this: did Russell record a triple-double? Jordan was one of best all around players ever. Jordan has recorded 28 regular seasons triple-doubles (9th all time). In the 1987-88 season, Jordan led the league in points (35.0 ppg with 53.5 FG %), steals (3.2 spg), won the Defensive Player of the Year (unusual for a guard) AND the Regular Season MVP. He is the only player in NBA history to win the scoring title, Defensive Player of Year and Regular Season MVP in the same season. His 131 blocked shots in that season is a record among guards. He became the only player in NBA history to consecutively record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season. He accomplished all this in just one season while leading his team to the third seed in the East with 50 wins. In the 1988-89 season, while leading the league in scoring with 32.5 ppg (53.8 FG %), Jordan became one of only two players in NBA history to average at least 30.0 ppg, 8.0 rpg and 8.0 apg (the other player is Oscar Robertson). He recorded 15 triple-doubles, including 7 straight. In the last 24 games of the season, Jordan averaged 30.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg and 10.8 apg.

Russell knew his teammates could carry the scoring load but couldn't defend as well as he could. So he let them do most of the shooting while he focused on frustrating the opposition in the defensive end.

Who knows or cares what he could have done with offensively weaker teammates?

 

[HammerDown]

Roy Tarpley on gutter glitter > Bill Russell

 

[HammerDown]

Russell knew his teammates could carry the scoring load but couldn't defend as well as he could. So he let them do most of the shooting while he focused on frustrating the opposition in the defensive end.

Who knows or cares what he could have done with offensively weaker teammates?

Excuses from Celtics and Patriots fans?! I refuse to believe it.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Russell knew his teammates could carry the scoring load but couldn't defend as well as he could. So he let them do most of the shooting while he focused on frustrating the opposition in the defensive end.

Who knows or cares what he could have done with offensively weaker teammates?

HIS FG% SUCKED FOR A CENTER! He let teammates shoot because he had a hard time hitting a barn...