Badger OL over the last several years...

[ForkEmBucky]

A few thoughts.

For starters, look at the continuity from Thomas to Wagner throughout the line, we had a lot of experience on the field.

Secondly, now that I look at this, it makes sense that we would see a dropoff this year, even though Groy has seen playing time before.

Thirdly, The way these guys have passed down skills and knowledge from player to player, I can understand why Markuson might have faced some hard times trying to instill his own system. Just look at this. These guys were amazing. Even the guys who didn't receive accolades were probably on the honorable mention list for All Big Ten at some point and played very well as I'm sure we all remember.

Bold = College Awards(All Big Ten or Trophies), or drafted in first 3 rounds (or projected to be).

Bold Italics = College Awards and/or Current NFL Starter (or likely to start after recovering from injury).

2006 ended with Cap 1 win

LT - Joe Thomas, 3rd year starter
LG - Andy Kemp
C - Marcus Coleman
RG - Kraig Urbik, 2nd year starter
RT - Eric Vanden Heuvel

2007 ended with outback loss(shaky defense)

LT - Gabe Carimi
LG - Andy Kemp, 2nd year starter
C - Marcus Coleman, 2nd year starter
RG - Kraig Urbik, 3rd year starter
RT - Eric Vanden Heuvel, 2nd year starter

2008 ended with champs sports loss, shaky defense no QB

LT - Gabe Carimi, 2nd year starter
LG - Andy Kemp, 3rd year starter
C - John Moffitt
RG - Kraig Urbik, 4th year starter
RT - Eric Vanden Heuvel, 3rd year starter

2009 score didn't reflect how we manhandled Miami

LT - Gabe Carimi, 3rd year starer
LG - John Moffitt, 2nd year starter
C - Peter Konz
RG - Keven Zeitler
RT - Josh Oglesby

2010 Tough loss to TCU in the ROSE BOWL

LT - Gabe Carimi, 4th year starter
LG - John Moffitt, 3rd year starter
C - Peter Konz, 2nd year starter
RG - Kevin Zeitler, 2nd year starter
RT - Ricky Wagner, 1st year starter

Reserve - Bill Nagy

2011 Tough loss to Oregon in the ROSE BOWL

LT - Ricky Wagner, 2nd year starter
LG - Travis Frederick
C - Peter Konz, 3rd year starter
RG - Kevin Zeitler, 3rd year starter
RT - Josh Oglesby, 2nd year starter

2012

LT - Ricky Wagner, 3rd year starter
LG - Ryan Groy
C - Travis Frederick, 2nd year starter
RG - Kyle Costigan
RT - Rob Havenstein

 

[Smart]

I expected some weaknesses from the RG spot, and maybe the RT spot. However, the problem has come from both sides. Wagner has gotten shredded two to three times per game and has given up three or so sacks. Frederick hasn't gotten beat, but he has had penalty problems and has not been the run-blocker we expected. I wish I could say that this is a problem with experience, but I am not seeing it.

Groy and Havenstein both have experience. Like you mentioned, Groy played extensively with the first string last year and Havenstein started a game and was heavily involved in drills with the first string. Though they are technically new starters, I would have expected them to fit in seamlessly.

I see a systemic problem with the O-Line. I have no idea why it is happeneing, but I hope it stops.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

I expected some weaknesses from the RG spot, and maybe the RT spot. However, the problem has come from both sides. Wagner has gotten shredded two to three times per game and has given up three or so sacks. Frederick hasn't gotten beat, but he has had penalty problems and has not been the run-blocker we expected. I wish I could say that this is a problem with experience, but I am not seeing it.

Groy and Havenstein both have experience. Like you mentioned, Groy played extensively with the first string last year and Havenstein started a game and was heavily involved in drills with the first string. Though they are technically new starters, I would have expected them to fit in seamlessly.

I see a systemic problem with the O-Line. I have no idea why it is happeneing, but I hope it stops.

Well. We've covered this multiple times, I was mostly posting to point out the continuity that has been there and how impressive the line has been. If you take what is essentially a brand new line; which it is because these guys had never played as one unit before even if Groy and Havenstein played, and then you also add in a new coach with a new way of communicating and taking blocking assignments and even screwing with technique, it is going to take some time for guys to gel. Even Wagner probably has a lot on his mind at this point. He HAS been shredded, but he's also been playing well as of late.

Look at all of the other years. Kemp and Vanden Heuvel were anchors. Thomas/Carimi and Urbik were anchors. Konz was an anchor. Right now you really only have Wagner playing his position for more than a year.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

Also, you make it sound like Wagner gets beat like a drum all day and that really isn't the case.... He's been beat a few times where it seemed like he shouldn't.

 

[Smart]

I hear what you are saying (and I know I am being repetitive), but my point is that this isn't a brand new line and the returners are struggling mightily. I think that negates the whole "continuity in the line" point.

And Frederick played plenty of center in the past. I don't know the exact numbers, but he's had two multiple-game stints at starting center in the past that may or may not add up to nearly a season*. We had two anchors to this line, and are at the two most important positions.

Continuity would probably dictate we won't be as good as 2010 on the line, but this line should at least be in the same league as 2006, 2007, and 2009 based on experience alone. They aren't even close.

(And Wagner has allowed at least four sacks through four weeks. That's pretty much failing, especially when he isn't going against any big names.)

I hope you are right and we have a great line shortly, but that's just optimism at this point. There is nothing to suggest it will happen.

* Edit: Just checked. 5 starts at center, and playing time in three other games. Not a year of experience, but not exactly new there, either.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

If you assume that Wagner and Frederick should be exactly as good as Thomas and Urbik...you might be close to having a point. I wouldn't assume that, though.

And I'm sorry, but you can't put 3 entirely new guys on the line, put Frederick at Center when he really only filled as a reserve for Konz on a line that was very good and very experienced, take Wagner in his second year full time at LT, and then tell me that they aren't basically a brand new line. This unit never played together at the positions that they're playing. We had continuity in the line RIGHT UP to this season.

Also. I might be repeating myself, but Markuson? New language? New assignments? New technique? Got fired? Did you really think that this would not continue to be a problem for weeks? There isn't anything mystical about what is happening here.