Are the Sixers insane or shrewd?

[flyerhawk]

Seems simple enough. If it works, they're shrewd. If it doesn't, they're insane.

That's sums it up pretty well. LOL

 

[Sparhawk]

22 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 1 blk in 15 minutes.

The collective whole of the Philadelphia fanbase holds their breath every time he falls down.

It's a crazy way to live, but at some point, TTP....

 

[flyerhawk]

22 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 1 blk in 15 minutes.

The collective whole of the Philadelphia fanbase holds their breath every time he falls down.

It's a crazy way to live, but at some point, TTP....

It's only pre-season but he sure looked good.

 

[Sparhawk]

It's only pre-season but he sure looked good.

One of the most impressive things he did was hoist up a 40 ft three pointer right after a whistle and swished it. He had not played since January and hit 14 of 18 at the line.

If they had bubble wrapped him once he left the game, I would have been ok with that....

 

[knowyourenemy]

Well I mean of course it's just my opinion and if you disagree fine, but I don't think Curry's situation is any different then Embiid's. Curry was the franchise player the Warriors were building around. They traded their best and most popular player in Monta Ellis just to clear up space for Curry to flourish. Embiid is clearly the center piece of the team, much in the way Curry was. How is that a different situation.

For the trade, I wasn't saying it was the BEST option, but an option nonetheless. You think if the Sixers offered Embiid to the Cavs right now for the Brooklyn pick they couldn't get it? What about all the Picks Boston has? Think the Kings wouldn't love to throw their future firsts at the 76ers for him? Hell you could probably even call the Knicks about Porzingas since he's disgruntled with the organization. There are options from a leverage stand point.

You do know that every year that there "leaks" from teams or reports from unnamed sources within the organization about things that are happening. All it takes is one "unnamed source" to place a call to Woj and say the 76ers are intending to match any contract for Embiid and it makes the rounds. Of course it's not allowed, there's lots of things that aren't allowed yet there are ways around it.

Unrealistic in what capacity?

How is pissing off your franchise player offering him big guaranteed money when he's only played 31 games in his career. You tell them you want him to be their center piece but based off his injury history they do have to be cautious. How many teams out there do you know would give a guy that kind of contract with 31 games under his belt?

I don't expect you to follow the 76ers/Embiid situation as closely as a 76ers fan but there have been leaks over the past couple years that Embiid did not want to be coddled as much as the 76ers were coddling him and that basically they held him back from playing in certain situations because they didn't want to risk injury to him. It would be nearly unconscionable for the 76ers to do that and then turn around and say -- well, you only played in 31 games so we can't give you big time money. I don't know how many games he would have played in if he had things his way -- maybe it would have been fewer games if he ended up re-injuring himself. But that dynamic makes it virtually impossible for them to throw the 31 games in his face. And it would basically destroy any good will that they may have built up with Embiid as well as some of their other players (Ben Simmons, for example.)

Offering Embiid below the max is unrealistic because he would never sign it. At one time, I was optimistic that the 76ers could work out a below-max deal with Embiid because he seems like a nice guy and he seems like he wants to win . . . but it was probably a pipe dream.

As far as letting it go to free agency, that would have been a disaster for a number of reasons. First, no matter how much they indicated that they'd match any offer, it's likely a team would have offered him a max contract next offseason. Second, that contract could have been constructed to include provisions less favorable to the 76ers than the provisions of the contract that they just signed. Third, having Embiid under contract when you head into next offseason allows them to sell a vision to potential free agents on day 1 of free agency.

On potentially trading him, I'm pretty sure there would be a riot in the city of Philadelphia if they traded Embiid for unknown future draft picks. The entire purpose of The Process was to bring star players to the city. Embiid, if healthy, is a star player. The only way they could have sold something like that is if another team would be willing to trade a star player to them. It's doubtful they'd be willing to send him to a division opponent like the Knicks. We'd probably be looking at trading him to a team in a situation like the 2017 Pacers or 2017 Bulls who have a star player that is on the trading block. Not sure how many of those situations will exist during the 2017-2018 season or the 2018 offseason.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Also, there is speculation that Embiid's agent told the 76ers that he's not going to play a second of basketball until he gets a contract extension. They're saying it's coincidental but is it a coincidence that Embiid was barely practicing a week ago and then he signs his extension and he's on the floor 2 days later?

 

[flyerhawk]

Also, there is speculation that Embiid's agent told the 76ers that he's not going to play a second of basketball until he gets a contract extension. They're saying it's coincidental but is it a coincidence that Embiid was barely practicing a week ago and then he signs his extension and he's on the floor 2 days later?

That seems unlikely. The agent is really rolling the dice that the Sixers wouldn't leak that and if they did it would make Embiid look REALLLLY bad.

Contract negotiations had been ongoing for a while. I think it was pure coincidence.

 

[Rock Strongo]

The 76ers signed Joel Embiid for 5 years 148 million. The contract has some really complex language in it. Basically if gives the Sixers an out if Embiid misses a lot of time due to previous injuries, specifically related to his feet and back.

On the face of it, it seems like a pretty crazy decision by the Sixers. Regardless of the injury risks, Embiid has only played 31 games in his NBA career. Can you really assume that those 31 games are what his career will be? What if he was just hot?

Those supporting the deal will say that his kind of play is undeniably good. He was en elite rim protector from the moment he stepped on the court. He has better foot speed that almost any other 7 footer in memory. If you can reliably get 70 games a year out of him there is no question that he would be as good or better than a Hassan Whiteside.

To me, from a purely basketball perspective, there was no reason to make this deal. They could have waited to see how he does this season and acted accordingly.

HOWEVER, the off the court factors weigh heavily. The Sixers engaged in arguably the most extreme case of tankapalooza in NBA history. The fans mostly stuck through it. Now they are expecting something in return. They want to believe in Embiid and see that the organization does as well. JoJo is one of the most popular young players in the league and maybe the biggest star in Philly. Even if he can't stay healthy, he is an icon that the Sixers can't let go.

BRILLIANT DEAL FOR AN INCREDIBLE PLAYER, WHEN HEALTHY.

 

[Sparhawk]

That seems unlikely. The agent is really rolling the dice that the Sixers wouldn't leak that and if they did it would make Embiid look REALLLLY bad.

Contract negotiations had been ongoing for a while. I think it was pure coincidence.

I've got this bridge you might be interested in...

As knowyourenemy alluded to, it's not unreasonable to believe that the team asked Embiid not to return to the court after being injured in January, to improve their lottery odds. As a show of good faith, Embiid's agent asked for his contract extension before committing to any 5v5/preseason games. Given the potential provisions that protect against injury, it absolutely feels like he was not playing a single minute until that extension was offered. It's understandable that you feel otherwise, but is it also a coincidence that Fultz has an injured shoulder and is altering his free throw shooting form?

 

[flyerhawk]

I've got this bridge you might be interested in...

As knowyourenemy alluded to, it's not unreasonable to believe that the team asked Embiid not to return to the court after being injured in January, to improve their lottery odds. As a show of good faith, Embiid's agent asked for his contract extension before committing to any 5v5/preseason games. Given the potential provisions that protect against injury, it absolutely feels like he was not playing a single minute until that extension was offered. It's understandable that you feel otherwise, but is it also a coincidence that Fultz has an injured shoulder and is altering his free throw shooting form?

I think it is a reasonable belief that the Sixers sidelines Embiid once it became clear that they couldn't make the playoffs. Along with Simmons.

I think it is reasonable that the agent agreed in principle with the management to get a deal done this offseason.

I don't think it is likely that there was any ultimatum by Embiid's agent that he would not play until an extension was done. That doesn't seem plausible to me. This contract was agreed in principle for some time but there were a lot of details that needed to be hashed out and, IMO, the contract needed to be done before the season started given the terms. So I think both sides were interested in getting it done in the preseason.

Not sure what your thinking is related to Fulz.

 

[Sparhawk]

I think it is a reasonable belief that the Sixers sidelines Embiid once it became clear that they couldn't make the playoffs. Along with Simmons.

I think it is reasonable that the agent agreed in principle with the management to get a deal done this offseason.

I don't think it is likely that there was any ultimatum by Embiid's agent that he would not play until an extension was done. That doesn't seem plausible to me. This contract was agreed in principle for some time but there were a lot of details that needed to be hashed out and, IMO, the contract needed to be done before the season started given the terms. So I think both sides were interested in getting it done in the preseason.

Not sure what your thinking is related to Fulz.

Agreed, not necessarily an ultimatum, per se, but I believe it was unlikely that he was playing one second of preseason action without an extension in place.

As for Fultz, I'm stating that it's not a coincidence that he has shoulder issues and is altering his shot. Just as I believe that it's not a coincidence that Embiid started playing once his extension was signed.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I think it is a reasonable belief that the Sixers sidelines Embiid once it became clear that they couldn't make the playoffs. Along with Simmons.

I think it is reasonable that the agent agreed in principle with the management to get a deal done this offseason.

I don't think it is likely that there was any ultimatum by Embiid's agent that he would not play until an extension was done. That doesn't seem plausible to me. This contract was agreed in principle for some time but there were a lot of details that needed to be hashed out and, IMO, the contract needed to be done before the season started given the terms. So I think both sides were interested in getting it done in the preseason.

Not sure what your thinking is related to Fulz.

This makes sense to you but his agent saying the contract needs to be done before he plays in the preseason doesn't make sense to you? Playing in the preseason and playing in the season both involve a risk of injury. It makes a lot of sense that the contract needed to be finalized before Embiid would play basketball at all, whether it be preseason or regular season.

 

[knowyourenemy]

By the way, I would much rather extend Embiid than give Wiggins the contract that Minnesota gave him.

 

[flyerhawk]

This makes sense to you but his agent saying the contract needs to be done before he plays in the preseason doesn't make sense to you? Playing in the preseason and playing in the season both involve a risk of injury. It makes a lot of sense that the contract needed to be finalized before Embiid would play basketball at all, whether it be preseason or regular season.

So you're saying that if there were a hangup in the language that delayed signing the contract until late October, the agent would have told Embiid not to play? That's called a hold out.

I just don't see how that would be kept private.

 

[flyerhawk]

By the way, I would much rather extend Embiid than give Wiggins the contract that Minnesota gave him.

The Wiggins contract is interesting. He definitely hasn't developed into the player people thought he would. But it's not a talent issue. It's an aggression/effort issue.

Minny may regret that contract in a couple of years.

 

[knowyourenemy]

So you're saying that if there were a hangup in the language that delayed signing the contract until late October, the agent would have told Embiid not to play? That's called a hold out.

I just don't see how that would be kept private.

There wasn't a hangup in the language. I'd guess Embiid would have played in the regular season but would not have played any preseason games. But it's all speculation.

 

[flyerhawk]

There wasn't a hangup in the language. I'd guess Embiid would have played in the regular season but would not have played any preseason games. But it's all speculation.

That's possible. I just don't see Embiid and his agent trying to play hard ball here. First I don't think it was necessary and 2nd it could really blow up in his face.