AR-15... I THINK IT'S TIME

[Bridgeburner]

So. I'm thinking about finally adding a rifle to the arsenal, particularly an AR-15. Problem is, as much as I know about handguns I know very little about rifles. What should I look for? Kind of eyeing the Ruger AR556 to get my feet wet. Always been a Ruger fan and I'm seeing it for around $600-650. Which doesn't seem too bad. I know it's an entry level weapon but is it any good?

 

[bamabear82]

Coincidentally enough, I went to the range Tuesday and there was a gentleman there with one of the Ruger AR's he had just got. I shit you not, the damn thing wouldn't shoot more than 4 or 5 rounds without malfunctioning. Either the bolt would stick and not cycle the next round or it'd jam. I took it apart for him but didn't see anything obvious, oiled it and it still did the same thing. It ended with him literally throwing it down on the table and getting another rifle out. Ruger makes good stuff so this is probably isolated, thought it was worth mentioning though.

I've got a Bushmaster that I've shot a couple thousand + rounds through without a single issue ( I do have upwards of $1000 in it tho). The S&W M&P Sports are also nice and fairly inexpensive ($600-$700). Probably the best out there for the price really, imo anyway.

 

[RobBase]

Coincidentally enough, I went to the range Tuesday and there was a gentleman there with one of the Ruger AR's he had just got. I shit you not, the damn thing wouldn't shoot more than 4 or 5 rounds without malfunctioning. Either the bolt would stick and not cycle the next round or it'd jam. I took it apart for him but didn't see anything obvious, oiled it and it still did the same thing. It ended with him literally throwing it down on the table and getting another rifle out. Ruger makes good stuff so this is probably isolated, thought it was worth mentioning though.

I've got a Bushmaster that I've shot a couple thousand + rounds through without a single issue ( I do have upwards of $1000 in it tho). The S&W M&P Sports are also nice and fairly inexpensive ($600-$700). Probably the best out there for the price really, imo anyway.

I've heard the same thing about the Ruger AR jamming like that.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Good to know. I'll take a look at the M&P15.

 

[bamabear82]

Just saw where they're coming out with an M&P15 Sport II. Only difference seems to be a dust cover and forward assist, which really isn't a big deal unless you're planning on rolling around in the dirt. Can't say I've really ever used either enough to amount to anything on mine.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Yeah. That's the one I looked at this morning. Was quoted $615 locally.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Good to know. I'll take a look at the M&P15.

The M&P sport seems to be a popular model for cheap entry level AR15s -- and they get pretty good reviews. I know the DPMS Oracle gets pretty good reviews as well, priced around the same ($600 ish).

Any thoughts on building one yourself? I thought it was a bit more fun to do mine that way, and then you can customize every little bit. And right now it's certainly a buyers market. A lot of people will buy an Ar like the M&P sport, and then swap out a bunch of stuff on it they don't like. New stock, new hand guard, different sights, new trigger and so on. By the time it's all said and done, they end up wasting a bunch of money on stuff that came stock that they didn't want. I just built a lower the way I wanted it (which is super cheap and easy) and then just purchased the exact upper I wanted to stick on it. I thought it was pretty fun and the added bonus is that I really know how the thing works and can swap out parts if/when they break.

Another bonus of building one -- you don't have to pay for everything all at once. You can buy a stripped lower for like $50 and then just add parts as you can afford them.

 

[Bridgeburner]

The M&P sport seems to be a popular model for cheap entry level AR15s -- and they get pretty good reviews. I know the DPMS Oracle gets pretty good reviews as well, priced around the same ($600 ish).

Any thoughts on building one yourself? I thought it was a bit more fun to do mine that way, and then you can customize every little bit. And right now it's certainly a buyers market. A lot of people will buy an Ar like the M&P sport, and then swap out a bunch of stuff on it they don't like. New stock, new hand guard, different sights, new trigger and so on. By the time it's all said and done, they end up wasting a bunch of money on stuff that came stock that they didn't want. I just built a lower the way I wanted it (which is super cheap and easy) and then just purchased the exact upper I wanted to stick on it. I thought it was pretty fun and the added bonus is that I really know how the thing works and can swap out parts if/when they break.

Another bonus of building one -- you don't have to pay for everything all at once. You can buy a stripped lower for like $50 and then just add parts as you can afford them.

Ugh. I would actually love to do that. But every time I go to gather information on it I'm a bit overwhelmed. Not sure what I want let alone if I have the mechanical aptitude to get it together correctly.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Ugh. I would actually love to do that. But every time I go to gather information on it I'm a bit overwhelmed. Not sure what I want let alone if I have the mechanical aptitude to get it together correctly.

I literally knew nothing going in. One of the first things I did after getting into firearms was build an AR. There are just so many step by step videos online that make it easy. About the only things you need to buy are a lower vice block to hold it while you work ($10 on Amazon), a set of brass punches ($20) and a castle nut wrench (which you can get for as low as $5)

So $35 and you have everything that you need. You can spend more on the tools and get better products that do more: like they sell castle nut wrenches that have more functionality, they sell vice blocks that hold both your upper and lower -- but unnecessary if you're just going to build a lower.

Trying to build the upper is where things get a little crazy and complicated. But you can just buy fully assembled, and customized, uppers so you don't need to worry about that. I purchased my upper through Palmetto State Armory: Barreled Upper Assemblies - AR-15

You'll also notice on their site that they sell whole kits like this that give you everything but the lower. So you'd go to your local gun shop, drop $60 on a lower, buy a package like this and be out the door with a quality AR15 for around $510.

They have tons to choose from. About the only thing you need to be careful of is not buying something under 16''. If you do, you have to make sure the lower receiver was designated as a pistol from the FFL when it was sold. Otherwise it's illegal (and that's good to know even if you don't build one yourself). Unless you go through the Short Barreled Rifle process, you can't put anything below a 16'' barrel on the gun. There are some exceptions, but that's the general rule. Also -- make sure, if you do this, that you buy an upper with the bolt carrier group. Otherwise you have to check head space on the parts (which is an unnecessary step for a beginner). For the most part, if you build the lower you can get anything you want and just plop it on top, super easily.

So, like I said, you might want to give it some thought. Certainly more fun than just buying a complete rifle IMO.

 

[Bridgeburner]

I literally knew nothing going in. One of the first things I did after getting into firearms was build an AR. There are just so many step by step videos online that make it easy. About the only things you need to buy are a lower vice block to hold it while you work ($10 on Amazon), a set of brass punches ($20) and a castle nut wrench (which you can get for as low as $5)

So $35 and you have everything that you need. You can spend more on the tools and get better products that do more: like they sell castle nut wrenches that have more functionality, they sell vice blocks that hold both your upper and lower -- but unnecessary if you're just going to build a lower.

Trying to build the upper is where things get a little crazy and complicated. But you can just buy fully assembled, and customized, uppers so you don't need to worry about that. I purchased my upper through Palmetto State Armory: Barreled Upper Assemblies - AR-15

You'll also notice on their site that they sell whole kits like this that give you everything but the lower. So you'd go to your local gun shop, drop $60 on a lower, buy a package like this and be out the door with a quality AR15 for around $510.

They have tons to choose from. About the only thing you need to be careful of is not buying something under 16''. If you do, you have to make sure the lower receiver was designated as a pistol from the FFL when it was sold. Otherwise it's illegal (and that's good to know even if you don't build one yourself). Unless you go through the Short Barreled Rifle process, you can't put anything below a 16'' barrel on the gun. There are some exceptions, but that's the general rule. Also -- make sure, if you do this, that you buy an upper with the bolt carrier group. Otherwise you have to check head space on the parts (which is an unnecessary step for a beginner). For the most part, if you build the lower you can get anything you want and just plop it on top, super easily.

So, like I said, you might want to give it some thought. Certainly more fun than just buying a complete rifle IMO.

So... if I bought this:

PSA 16" Midlength 5.56 NATO 1:7 Stainless Steel MOE Freedom Rifle Kit - 7778692

That has everything that I need except for the stripped lower. Get that and the tools then go grab any(?) stripped lower and I'm good to go?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So... if I bought this:

PSA 16" Midlength 5.56 NATO 1:7 Stainless Steel MOE Freedom Rifle Kit - 7778692

That has everything that I need except for the stripped lower. Get that and the tools then go grab any(?) stripped lower and I'm good to go?

Yup, that kit (and all of these) include all parts needed to build your AR15 except for the stripped lower.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Man... this just looks... fun.

I can probably do it. First thing I do when I get a handgun is usually detail strip it. And the 1911 can be a real pain with all those small parts. This doesn't look any harder than that is.

 

[Bridgeburner]

MAIZE. What have you done to me? I'm all giddy now. Can't concentrate on anything. I'm almost leaning towards not doing a complete kit at PSA so I can choose more stuff individually. Like the handguards etc.

But anyway. I ordered an Andersen stripped lower a little bit ago.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

MAIZE. What have you done to me? I'm all giddy now. Can't concentrate on anything. I'm almost leaning towards not doing a complete kit at PSA so I can choose more stuff individually. Like the handguards etc.

But anyway. I ordered an Andersen stripped lower a little bit ago.

hahaha, awesome. Yeah, that's about what happened to me. I was going to just buy one of the complete guns but then started watching videos, which linked to other videos, which showed how easy it was and then linked to sites like Palmetto State. Once I saw the like 4 pages of different uppers I was done for.

You can also buy stripped uppers and get the hand guards separately. Like this

In the end, it once you get all the tools and such you end up at around the same price but you get a customized gun the way you want it rather than a cookie-cutter one out of the box. I built mine over like 3 months and it was pretty darn exciting even when the smallest of parts came because it was something else I got to go put on the gun and watch it evolve into something.

 

[Bridgeburner]

What the difference between carbine and midlength and something else... can't remember what I read.

 

[bamabear82]

What the difference between carbine and midlength and something else... can't remember what I read.

The other is the rifle length gas system. It dictates the length of the gas tube that reverts the expended gases back through the rifle to the bolt sending it back into the buffer tube which in turn cycles the action extracting the casing and chambering the next round. It really depends on what length barrel you're going with imo. 16" is better suited for carbine length gas system, 18" is more mid length territory and 20" is rifle length territory. It's basically at what point on the barrel the gas block is attached and how long of a gas tube you need. Typically, the shorter the system the more reliable it is but the longer the system the less recoil which can lead to a little better accuracy. Your handgaurd will need to match your gas system too, especially if it's not free floating.

 

[SJ76]

Looking at getting one fairly soon as well. Right after a pre-1995 S&W .357

 

[Bridgeburner]

The other is the rifle length gas system. It dictates the length of the gas tube that reverts the expended gases back through the rifle to the bolt sending it back into the buffer tube which in turn cycles the action extracting the casing and chambering the next round. It really depends on what length barrel you're going with imo. 16" is better suited for carbine length gas system, 18" is more mid length territory and 20" is rifle length territory. It's basically at what point on the barrel the gas block is attached and how long of a gas tube you need. Typically, the shorter the system the more reliable it is but the longer the system the less recoil which can lead to a little better accuracy. Your handgaurd will need to match your gas system too, especially if it's not free floating.

Good info. Thanks for the response man!

 

[Bridgeburner]

And now I've discovered 80% lowers!

Can you really build and entire AR-15 without an FFL transfer?

 

[bamabear82]

And now I've discovered 80% lowers!

Can you really build and entire AR-15 without an FFL transfer?

As long as you have access to machinery to be able to machine out the other 20% of the receiver. Once it's finished and legally considered a "firearm" then it's supposed to be serial numbered if I'm thinking correctly. Not all that up on the laws pertaining to this but I'm sure there's some grey areas that'd be worth looking in to. They really have no way of tracing it aside from the info given when you purchased it.