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________ trumps Head-to-Head

Lance Armstrong

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Ask yourself this: Does TCU win that game in Fort Worth?

If the answer is yes (and it clearly is), you just admitted to thinking a conference schedule should determine the playoff teams.

You can spout your opinion all you want, but the fact is Baylor is 3 points better than TCU in 2014.
 

occupant

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Smart

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You can spout your opinion all you want, but the fact is Baylor is 3 points better than TCU in 2014.

So West Virginia is better than Baylor in 2014? And TCU is better than West Virginia?

Congratulations, mathematics just quit working. Our universe no longer exists.

We know that Baylor won by 3 points on their home-field in the middle of the year (in a game where there were several questionable calls). We also know that TCU has been better this year if you accept my two premises in the other thread. And all of you Baylor backers have now had 12+ hours to tell me why the premises are wrong, yet you haven't.

What you describe as my opinion is a fact. If you accept that taking out the Baylor-TCU-West Virginia triad, TCU was better, it is indisputable that TCU has been better. And what you describe as a fact, isn't a fact at all. It isn't even an opinion. It is just wrong.
 

Sgt Brutus

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Does anyone actually believe Baylor is a better team than TCU?
 

Desean12345

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If Baylor beats K-state and TCU beats Iowa St, they would have the same exact conference schedule. Thye bothed scheduled bad big ten teams in Minny and Northwestern. Tcu just got lucky because Minny was actually a pretty good team this year. If that enough to override the head to matchup that Baylor won.

Basically, the committe is saying that TCU's win over an 8-4 minnesota team is enough to override the head to head matchup.

Total bullshit.
 

Desean12345

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Does anyone actually believe Baylor is a better team than TCU?

Can you prove to me that TCU is better than Baylor?

I got the results on the field don't matter and it's still about who's schedule was "tougher" and style points etc.

CFB hasn't had a legit national champion ever and it looks like they still wont.
 

Codaxx

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So West Virginia is better than Baylor in 2014? And TCU is better than West Virginia?

Congratulations, mathematics just quit working. Our universe no longer exists.

We know that Baylor won by 3 points on their home-field in the middle of the year (in a game where there were several questionable calls). We also know that TCU has been better this year if you accept my two premises in the other thread. And all of you Baylor backers have now had 12+ hours to tell me why the premises are wrong, yet you haven't.

What you describe as my opinion is a fact. If you accept that taking out the Baylor-TCU-West Virginia triad, TCU was better, it is indisputable that TCU has been better. And what you describe as a fact, isn't a fact at all. It isn't even an opinion. It is just wrong.

Not sure it is indisputable. TCU and Baylor have played 7 conference games a piece..
Average Score in those games:
Baylor: 45.86 - 29.71
TCU: 47.42 - 28.57

Slight advantage to TCU, but nothing huge. In terms of yards it looks like this:

Baylor: 553.63 (offense) - 418.25 (defense)
TCU: 523.5 (offense) - 427.75 (defense)

Slight advantage for Baylor with the caveat that TCU has played KSU and not ISU like Baylor..
 

Sgt Brutus

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Can you prove to me that TCU is better than Baylor?

I got the results on the field don't matter and it's still about who's schedule was "tougher" and style points etc.

CFB hasn't had a legit national champion ever and it looks like they still wont.
Simply by the eye test; which the committee like to use as reasoning a lot. I don't know many people who think Baylor is a better football team.

We are just trying to make sense of the committees f'ed up standards that seem to change every week.
 

Tubbs1518

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If we are going by who looks best, does FSU look better than any of the top 10 teams? I don't see it.
 

Desean12345

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Simply by the eye test; which the committee like to use as reasoning a lot. I don't know many people who think Baylor is a better football team.

We are just trying to make sense of the committees f'ed up standards that seem to change every week.

The "eye test". That's how they justified the SEC being the best conference. A bunch of subjective horses hit.

Instead of deciding a champion on the field, they use shit like the "eye test" that really doesn't matter.

Baylor beat TCU head to head.

IF TCU and K-state win next week their conference schedule is identical.

TCU has a win over 8-4 minnesota.

Tcu beat Oklahoma by 4 at home while Baylor beat oklahoma by 34 on the road.

The same Kansas team TCU almost lost to, Baylor beat by 50.

You can't convince me TCU is better than Baylor going by their schedule.
 

Sgt Brutus

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The "eye test". That's how they justified the SEC being the best conference. A bunch of subjective horses hit.

Instead of deciding a champion on the field, they use shit like the "eye test" that really doesn't matter.

Baylor beat TCU head to head.

IF TCU and K-state win next week their conference schedule is identical.

TCU has a win over 8-4 minnesota.

Tcu beat Oklahoma by 4 at home while Baylor beat oklahoma by 34 on the road.

The same Kansas team TCU almost lost to, Baylor beat by 50.

You can't convince me TCU is better than Baylor going by their schedule.
And you should be entitled to that opinion. Unfortunatley they do use the eye test and most people think TCU is a better squad. So the result is Baylor gets screwed.
 

Tubbs1518

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BUT BUT BUT THIS PLAYOFF WAS SUPPOSED TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM GETTING MAD BECAUSE MORE TEAMS WOULD BE IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

rmilia1

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Does anyone actually believe Baylor is a better team than TCU?

I dont. Im also not sure it matters... A CFB playoff is supposed to reward the 4 teams that had the best seasons. Winning your league title is for sure part of that equation. This is where3 people get confused I think. We arent supposed to be guessing at the 4 best teams. We are supposed to be rewarding the 4 best seasons. This is why CFB has gone of the rails, too much emphasis on some hypothetical "eye test" and not enough focus on actual results ie division titles/conference titles and wins/losses. I could make an extremely salient and valid argument that Ole Miss is better than Alabama, FSU, TCU and Oregon using the numbers and data but that would be preposterous because Ole Miss has 2 losses right?? We ll then why is OK for FSU to drop to 4 despite having 0 losses?? Its not. Same reason its not OK for TCU to be ahead of Baylor. Actual game says Baylor is better. Do I think TCU wins on a neutral field or at Ft Worth?? Yes but I dont KNOW that for sure. What I know is Baylor beat TCU in Waco.
 

Tubbs1518

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I dont. Im also not sure it matters... A CFB playoff is supposed to reward the 4 teams that had the best seasons. Winning your league title is for sure part of that equation. This is where3 people get confused I think. We arent supposed to be guessing at the 4 best teams. We are supposed to be rewarding the 4 best seasons. This is why CFB has gone of the rails, too much emphasis on some hypothetical "eye test" and not enough focus on actual results ie division titles/conference titles and wins/losses. I could make an extremely salient and valid argument that Ole Miss is better than Alabama, FSU, TCU and Oregon using the numbers and data but that would be preposterous because Ole Miss has 2 losses right?? We ll then why is OK for FSU to drop to 4 despite having 0 losses?? Its not. Same reason its not OK for TCU to be ahead of Baylor. Actual game says Baylor is better. Do I think TCU wins on a neutral field or at Ft Worth?? Yes but I dont KNOW that for sure. What I know is Baylor beat TCU in Waco.

Except that isn't what the committee said they were doing. It isn't about the best season, though I'd argue that FSU still doesn't have the best season despite not losing.
 

Lance Armstrong

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So West Virginia is better than Baylor in 2014? And TCU is better than West Virginia?

Congratulations, mathematics just quit working. Our universe no longer exists.

We know that Baylor won by 3 points on their home-field in the middle of the year (in a game where there were several questionable calls). We also know that TCU has been better this year if you accept my two premises in the other thread. And all of you Baylor backers have now had 12+ hours to tell me why the premises are wrong, yet you haven't.

What you describe as my opinion is a fact. If you accept that taking out the Baylor-TCU-West Virginia triad, TCU was better, it is indisputable that TCU has been better. And what you describe as a fact, isn't a fact at all. It isn't even an opinion. It is just wrong.

I feel like you're trolling, you can't really say that what i said isn't fact. THEY PLAYED A FOOTBALL GAME, baylor was 3 points better. They have the same schedule, with the same record. Their is no way you're this dumb.
 

Tubbs1518

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I feel like you're trolling, you can't really say that what i said isn't fact. THEY PLAYED A FOOTBALL GAME, baylor was 3 points better. They have the same schedule, with the same record. Their is no way you're this dumb.

Don't test him........he really is.
 

Smart

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Not sure it is indisputable. TCU and Baylor have played 7 conference games a piece..
Average Score in those games:
Baylor: 45.86 - 29.71
TCU: 47.42 - 28.57

Slight advantage to TCU, but nothing huge. In terms of yards it looks like this:

Baylor: 553.63 (offense) - 418.25 (defense)
TCU: 523.5 (offense) - 427.75 (defense)

Slight advantage for Baylor with the caveat that TCU has played KSU and not ISU like Baylor..

We'll see where those stand after this weekend, when Baylor has an indisputably tougher matchup. If the stats are even right now (and I agree with you that they are), it currently favors TCU. If Baylor wins by more this weekend and plays better, it could tip the balance to Baylor.

Again, I had Baylor ranked above TCU before this week. The gap isn't huge or insurmountable, but it is clearly there. TCU is better today. It's up to Baylor to show me (and the committee) that they are for real.
 

Tharvot

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Overall performance should trump head to head, especially when the head-to-head was a three point home win. If you think otherwise, that is your problem.

:agree:
 

Smart

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I feel like you're trolling, you can't really say that what i said isn't fact. THEY PLAYED A FOOTBALL GAME, baylor was 3 points better. They have the same schedule, with the same record. Their is no way you're this dumb.

I'll try this one last time, and hopefully you'll get it. As of yet, you haven't addressed either of my points which show the clear logical fallacy in your argument.

I'll go to my old example. It's like we are both high school teachers, and have classes of 30 kids. We divide our classes into subsets of 10 and 20. My subset of 10 is taller on average and my subset of 20 is taller on average. This is proof that my class is taller on average.

You claim that they played the "same schedule." Thus, let's divide the season into two equal parts. One is the TCU/Baylor/WV games. One is the rest of the schedule. Who was better in the first subset? Clearly TCU. Their point differential is better, they had the same record, and TCU played both games on the road. Who is better in the second sample? I submit, so far uncontested by you, that it is also TCU.

If TCU is better in two subsets of equal size which form the entirety of the sample, it is proof that they are better. You can call me dumb all you want, but this is the type of logic which forms the basis of all objectively factual sciences, like math.

If you think Baylor is objectively better, you can't call the proof stupid. It isn't stupid, just like saying 6+5=11 isn't stupid or smart. It's something that just is.

If you want to attack the conclusion, you have to attack the premises. Codaxx did it fairly, and made a good case that the gap is not large. It doesn't undermine the conclusion, but it could if TCU is outperformed by Baylor this weekend.

But you don't want to do it. To go back to the hypo, you are picking two kids at random. And in that sample, your kid is taller. Amazingly, you want to say that proves that your class is taller on average!!!!

You can call me arrogant or stupid, but you aren't arguing with me. You are arguing with math. And the math will always say you are wrong. Math doesn't change its mind. Logic doesn't bend because you are too stupid to understand it. It just is. If you want to call me wrong, it would serve you best to argue with the inputs to the math, not the math itself.

Got it? If you didn't realize how wrong you were before, surely you should now. If this post wasn't clear enough, all the evidence you need comes from the fact that Tubbs supported your post.
 

theboardref

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Those numbers are from the Massey Composite.

I'm not sure how far off from the BCS computers those are.

Even though, the top 4 from the committee doesn't stray far from these.

They are if anything, putting Baylor in better position than the computers.
 
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