Game Thread: 4/23 Tiny Hitless Midgets @ ROX

[Stokes1931]

Then there is this:

Brandon Crawford is in a 6-for-39 slump. … Buster Posey has two RBIs this year.

If I didn't know any better, it seems like Posey has become a shell of his former hitting self. He no longer has any power. I want the old MVPosey back!

 

[calsnowskier]

I am not sure how we can really blame the PsTB for the OF situation.

Pence was signed after the 12 run, and gave us 2 solid years of play, and so far a year + of good, if sparse, play. He cost a lot, in the end, I think he qualifies as a good/great Giant.

Span was a gamble. And it came up snake eyes. I would agree (and maybe even champion) with the argument that it was a bad gamble, but there weren't any other options available. They decided to be proactive on the Pagan CF deselect front. Can you really fault them for trying?

LF is a black hole. But many here (mayself one of the loudest) argued that they should not go after anyone because we had 2 potential options ready to play in house. Well, I did not expect BOTH Parker and Williamson to go down to injury. And no one else in the world did either. Dems the breaks.

This team is at or above the luxury limit every year. They are a top 5 salary team. They pay their own too much money (Belt, Cain, Timmeh, Craw, Posey, Pence, not Bum). This makes them they anti-A's, but there is a down side to that loyalty. It makes it harder to make sweeping changes on the fly when necessary. It makes it so they can't pick up Cespedes.

Guys, even the Yanks needed to go into rebuild for a few years. And while they did that, the Giants picked up 3 pieces of jewelry...

 

[calsnowskier]

Then there is this:

Brandon Crawford is in a 6-for-39 slump. … Buster Posey has two RBIs this year.

If I didn't know any better, it seems like Posey has become a shell of his former hitting self. He no longer has any power. I want the old MVPosey back!

This is why guys like Bench and Fisk are so amazingly amazing. Being in the squat and still having energy in August to power one over the wall is simply unfathomable.

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe this is simply what it looks like to fall off the peddle stool.

If we peaked in 2014, this is how it will go. The question is, at what point does the decision get made that it's time to do a tear down? Haven't done anything like that in more than a decade I think...

I think after the 10-14 run, they are entitled to say 'let's start over'.

But then do you keep guys like Posey and Crawford and Bumgarner around for that? It takes a few years, and those guys will be on the wrong side of 30, and super expensive, and you won't be winning yet...

Maybe you go ape crazy bananas and sell everything.

Just musing here, it's one of many possible futures.

 

[calsnowskier]

Maybe this is simply what it looks like to fall off the peddle stool.

If we peaked in 2014, this is how it will go. The question is, at what point does the decision get made that it's time to do a tear down? Haven't done anything like that in more than a decade I think...

I think after the 10-14 run, they are entitled to say 'let's start over'.

But then do you keep guys like Posey and Crawford and Bumgarner around for that? It takes a few years, and those guys will be on the wrong side of 30, and super expensive, and you won't be winning yet...

Maybe you go ape crazy bananas and sell everything.

Just musing here, it's one of many possible futures.

I don't think Posey has much/any trade value. Not that he isn't any good, he is legit one of, if not the best catcher in the game. But his salary reflects that. And he is trending in the wrong direction.

Bum is a huge question mark right now. If he comes back to pitch this year, and is at an elite level, than he is arguably the most valuable asset in all of baseball. If not, he may be a candidate to let go after next year (for nothing).

Crawford is not worth as much to another org as he is to the Giants. I have said it for years, and I still believe it... his "story" is worth arguably more than his play. He ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

So....

Cueto is a goner if this season is not turned around. And think we can get a VERY nice package for him. Pence MIGHT be tradable, but he has to demonstrate that this latest injury is ajust a boo-boo and he comes back strong.

Belt may have some value, but he is no longer getting paid as someone with potential. He is getting paid as someone who produces. I am not convinced, yet.

Strickland may have some moderate value, but I don't think there is enough value to trade.

Melancon has value, but we would need to eat salary, and I am not sure the PsTB will be ok with that.

Nunez has value, and he is blocking our top prospect. Don't expect much, though...

Panik has value, but I think he is young enough to stick around.

Moore MIGHT have moderate value, but right now is not the time to trade him. Same with Sammy.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't think Posey has much/any trade value. Not that he isn't any good, he is legit one of, if not the best catcher in the game. But his salary reflects that. And he is trending in the wrong direction.

Bum is a huge question mark right now. If he comes back to pitch this year, and is at an elite level, than he is arguably the most valuable asset in all of baseball. If not, he may be a candidate to let go after next year (for nothing).

Crawford is not worth as much to another org as he is to the Giants. I have said it for years, and I still believe it... his "story" is worth arguably more than his play. He ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

So....

Cueto is a goner if this season is not turned around. And think we can get a VERY nice package for him. Pence MIGHT be tradable, but he has to demonstrate that this latest injury is ajust a boo-boo and he comes back strong.

Belt may have some value, but he is no longer getting paid as someone with potential. He is getting paid as someone who produces. I am not convinced, yet.

Strickland may have some moderate value, but I don't think there is enough value to trade.

Melancon has value, but we would need to eat salary, and I am not sure the PsTB will be ok with that.

Nunez has value, and he is blocking our top prospect. Don't expect much, though...

Panik has value, but I think he is young enough to stick around.

Moore MIGHT have moderate value, but right now is not the time to trade him. Same with Sammy.

I agree with most of this, but "right now" isn't the time to trade anyone. I was just musing that at SOME point a teardown is the right move. Maybe this year, probably not, maybe next year or the year after. At some point though.

Also, just because assets like Crawford and Posey aren't spectacularly valuable to trade, if you are truly doing a teardown there's not much point in keeping them. You keep only young talent, trade everything else for more prospects, and see what develops. And I disagree about Posey, that kind of skill at C and leadership and quality hitting is immensely rare. On our team his power being gone is a major problem, but trade him to a team with power coming from the usual spots like....FIRST BASE or LEFT FIELD and suddenly it doesn't matter that he doesn't hit for power. Hit him 7th and get the best game manager in baseball....a team would give up a lot for that.

 

[SFGRTB]

I think the Giants could get away with a mini rebuild this year and still be competitive for awhile.

I think the only tradeable piece worth a damn is going to be Cueto, but the Giants could get a really nice haul for him.

Looking at the teams that could be involved, Boston has Rafael Devers, who is a very young 3rd baseman (20 years old) already in AA that projects to be a high contact/big power guy with solid to great defense. Houston is loaded with pitching (Francis Martes, David Paulino, Forrest Whitley) and they have Kyle Tucker who is an outfielder, and their top batting prospect. The Cardinals have some interesting pitching prospects.

For Cueto, who is probably gone anyway, it's very possible the Giants could land a really good prospect. You go into next year with a re-tooled farm system, and a high draft pick, while keeping the same core together, which still isn't THAT old.