2017 Spring Training Thread

[calsnowskier]

Not like Gorkys is doing himself any favors - 4 for 28 with 2 walks but no strikeouts. His slash is worse than Ruggiano's:

Hernandez - .143/.200/.250
Ruggiano - .136/.208/.318

But he bring ++ defense at all 3 OF spots.

 

[LHG]

But he bring ++ defense at all 3 OF spots.

How is Ruggiano's defense? Can they both make it over Denard Span? His slash currently sits at .091/.231/.136. Worst hitting position player in camp (unless you count 4 players who've gone 0 for 1 as worse).

And if I'm throwing veteran outfielders under the bus, how about Pence's .125/.192/.208? Sure, Pence and Span are veteran big leaguers but they've already shown some concerns (health for both, declining production more for Span). That's why I say go with a 5 man outfield (and a 12 man pitching staff) and send the non roster guys down for depth. We'll need them.

 

[LHG]

I find it interesting that Hwang has gotten over twice the playing time in spring than Gillaspie has. I'm starting to wonder if they pull an Ishikawa on Gillaspie.

Marrero is showing some better pop (3 HRs in 5 Hs) than Williamson (2 HRs in 6 Hs) but Williamson is getting on base a lot more (.375 vs Marrero's .273). I'd rather see Marrero start at Sac and go with Parker and either Williamson or Hernandez (if they only carry 4 outfielders, both if 5) and if Williamson struggles, he can be safely optioned. Then they come to figuring out how to fit Marrero on the 40.

As for middle infield, both Beckham and Hill are out hitting Tomlinson so far. Have to wonder if one of the two vets make the team as well.

This could well be the position portion of OP:
Posey - c
Hundley - c
Belt - 1b
Panik - 2b
Crawford - ss
Nunez - 3b
Hwang - 3b
Beckham - 2b
Parker - lf
Span - cf
Pence - rf
Hernandez - of
Williamson - of (if only 12 pitchers are carried, but I have my doubts on that).

The one thing with both Hwang (or Gillaspie) and Beckham making the roster is lack of infield flexibility, unless Hwang beats out Nunez for 3rd base and Nunez becomes the super sub.

Since posting this, Beckham has gone stone cold. His OPS has dropped over .200 points since last Thursday. Tomlinson and Hill have stayed fairly consistent.

The five best NRIs, offensively, thus far have been:
Hwang - .346/.333/.731(!) (26 ABs)
Federowicz - .286/.444/.500 (14 ABs)
Blanks - .333/.316/.611 (18 ABs)
Duggar - .333/.500/.417 (12 ABs)
Morse - .238/.360/.524 (21 ABs)
Marrero - .250/.273/.594 (32 ABs)

 

[MarcoPolo]

El Gordo Al Fatso (Edgardo Alfonzo) often had fantastic numbers in Spring training as a Giant. It never translated into regular season success, unfortunately. That's true for many players. I've since come to the conclusion that spring training numbers are pretty much useless as a measure of how good a player will be in the following 6 months.

 

[SFGRTB]

El Gordo Al Fatso (Edgardo Alfonzo) often had fantastic numbers in Spring training as a Giant. It never translated into regular season success, unfortunately. That's true for many players. I've since come to the conclusion that spring training numbers are pretty much useless as a measure of how good a player will be in the following 6 months.

Yeah I don't try to put much stock into them, but there are cases, like Matt Cain, where we really need to see some results. And I tend to think that I'd rather see a guy putting up numbers than falling on his face, like I'm glad a lot of the guys competing for spots are mostly doing well.

 

[SFGRTB]

Speaking of Matt Cain, things are really not going well for him. Bobby Evans was quoted in the Merc yesterday about how it's going so far and Bobby basically said "I don't know"

Bobby acknowledged that Cain has looked better in spurts with his stuff and command, but his high fastball that was so key for him pre-injuries is just getting crushed now. They are trying to figure out way to make him more deceptive. He didn't reiterate what that meant exactly, like changing his windup, adding a pitch, mixing up his pitches more, whatnot. I do know that it's not good news.

Evans also said that money isn't a factor (sunk cost). They're just trying to get the most out of him they can. No bullpen for him at this juncture.

Giants GM Bobby Evans explains Matt Cain's uncertain status

 

[tzill]

Yeah I don't try to put much stock into them, but there are cases, like Matt Cain, where we really need to see some results. And I tend to think that I'd rather see a guy putting up numbers than falling on his face, like I'm glad a lot of the guys competing for spots are mostly doing well.

Don't know if anyone else heard Bobby Evans yesterday on KNBR, but it sounded a LOT like Cain is just about done. Might not break camp.

This makes me sad.

 

[calsnowskier]

I have a hard time imagining they will cut ties with him before the season, but that is based on previous examples that they may have learned from. Also, Cain is actually performing worse than the previous examples (Timmeh, Zito, RoRo...)

 

[SFGRTB]

Don't know if anyone else heard Bobby Evans yesterday on KNBR, but it sounded a LOT like Cain is just about done. Might not break camp.

This makes me sad.

I have a hard time imagining they will cut ties with him before the season, but that is based on previous examples that they may have learned from. Also, Cain is actually performing worse than the previous examples (Timmeh, Zito, RoRo...)

Bobby Evans seems like a pretty straight shooter (well, as much as a GM can reasonably get). I think he's challenging Cain, but I don't think his words are empty. If Cain is not the best option for the 5th starter to start the season, he will not be the 5th starter.

Frankly, they can't afford to be cute. 26 of the first 28 games are divisional. I looked it up, assuming Cain is the 5th guy he has @Padres, vs.Rockies, @Royals, vs.Dodgers, vs.Padres in April. There are a few off days between Rockies and Royals where the Giants can skip his turn, but early in the season the Giants probably don't want to put the rotation on it's heels so soon.

I love Cainer, and this has got to be super awkward for everyone involved. And you remember he's only 32! But there's just so much mileage on his arm you think that maybe he is done, unless he can revamp the way he pitches. He can do that, it's been done before.... but we don't have time for that here.

 

[LHG]

Bobby Evans seems like a pretty straight shooter (well, as much as a GM can reasonably get). I think he's challenging Cain, but I don't think his words are empty. If Cain is not the best option for the 5th starter to start the season, he will not be the 5th starter.

Frankly, they can't afford to be cute. 26 of the first 28 games are divisional. I looked it up, assuming Cain is the 5th guy he has @Padres, vs.Rockies, @Royals, vs.Dodgers, vs.Padres in April. There are a few off days between Rockies and Royals where the Giants can skip his turn, but early in the season the Giants probably don't want to put the rotation on it's heels so soon.

I love Cainer, and this has got to be super awkward for everyone involved. And you remember he's only 32! But there's just so much mileage on his arm you think that maybe he is done, unless he can revamp the way he pitches. He can do that, it's been done before.... but we don't have time for that here.

I think about Cain, about Tim Lincecum, about Brian Wilson . . . and hope that Bumgarner bucks this trend.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think about Cain, about Tim Lincecum, about Brian Wilson . . . and hope that Bumgarner bucks this trend.

Yea... I am scared about his extension. If he signs a 10 year, 300M contract, he will have already earned it before the ink is dry, but it could still handcuff the org for the duration.

But letting him walk? Ouch, babe...

 

[VASFfan]

Yea... I am scared about his extension. If he signs a 10 year, 300M contract, he will have already earned it before the ink is dry, but it could still handcuff the org for the duration.

But letting him walk? Ouch, babe...

This is the 2nd time I've played devil's advocate today, so what the hell...$300 million is a helluva albatross to wrap around yourself. What are the actuarial statistics on big dollar, long-term deals? If the trend says that you're 'highly likely' (whatever that means) to get stuck with a deal where for a year or two, or many more, the guy is on the rehab list...or out of baseball entirely...wouldn't the wise thing be to say thanks MadBum, vaya con Dios?

That may sound bloodless, and maybe it is. I love MadBum and what he's done for us. But Cain has become an impediment for us. (Can't believe I just typed that, but ok.) A much longer, bigger impediment compromises our long-term competitiveness. Would a dispassionate analysis say (if the stats back it up), let him go? SHOULD analysis be 'dispassionate'? Do we owe MadBum a big, long-term deal because of what he's done for us in the PAST?

Just for the record, I'm not a Moneyball guy. But I AM someone who earns a living, in part, through performing statistical analyses, so I do believe in allowing empiricism to at least guide us, although not necessarily to determine our choices. And I'm a lifelong Giants fan who does believe we can't just go for what feels great in the short term but need to do what we can to ensure our success in the long-term, even if it means making some emotionally difficult decisions in the here and now.

If you can't tell, I'm very conflicted about this.

 

[LHG]

This is the 2nd time I've played devil's advocate today, so what the hell...$300 million is a helluva albatross to wrap around yourself. What are the actuarial statistics on big dollar, long-term deals? If the trend says that you're 'highly likely' (whatever that means) to get stuck with a deal where for a year or two, or many more, the guy is on the rehab list...or out of baseball entirely...wouldn't the wise thing be to say thanks MadBum, vaya con Dios?

That may sound bloodless, and maybe it is. I love MadBum and what he's done for us. But Cain has become an impediment for us. (Can't believe I just typed that, but ok.) A much longer, bigger impediment compromises our long-term competitiveness. Would a dispassionate analysis say (if the stats back it up), let him go? SHOULD analysis be 'dispassionate'? Do we owe MadBum a big, long-term deal because of what he's done for us in the PAST?

Just for the record, I'm not a Moneyball guy. But I AM someone who earns a living, in part, through performing statistical analyses, so I do believe in allowing empiricism to at least guide us, although not necessarily to determine our choices. And I'm a lifelong Giants fan who does believe we can't just go for what feels great in the short term but need to do what we can to ensure our success in the long-term, even if it means making some emotionally difficult decisions in the here and now.

If you can't tell, I'm very conflicted about this.

I'd love to see Bumgarner have a long and productive career and it all happen in orange and black (on the West Coast). However, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any pitcher contract of 5 years or longer that ever panned out. Cain's contract, if I remember correctly, was considered one of the friendliest, for a team, contract extension signed by a pitcher and look how that finished. Long term deals with pitchers make me really nervous.

 

[LHG]

Yea... I am scared about his extension. If he signs a 10 year, 300M contract, he will have already earned it before the ink is dry, but it could still handcuff the org for the duration.

But letting him walk? Ouch, babe...

I was thinking more in terms of him not going down in flames at a relatively young age, not really thinking about him signing an extension, but, yes, I cannot envy Bobby Evans' decision making ability on this one.

 

[tzill]

Ok, gents, I'm off to Arizona tomorrow am. Rockies/Angels at Talking Stick tomorrow, Royals/Brewers at Maryvale Fri, doyers/Chisox at Camelback Sat, and Brewers/Giants at Scottsdale Sun.

I'll update as I can. Can...not...WAIT.

AND, the Pack is dancing. Cyclones must die.

 

[calsnowskier]

Ok, gents, I'm off to Arizona tomorrow am. Rockies/Angels at Talking Stick tomorrow, Royals/Brewers at Maryvale Fri, doyers/Chisox at Camelback Sat, and Brewers/Giants at Scottsdale Sun.

I'll update as I can. Can...not...WAIT.

AND, the Pack is dancing. Cyclones must die.

You realize EVERYONE is looking at your boys as the most likely "upset" victim, right?

 

[SFGRTB]

You realize EVERYONE is looking at your boys as the most likely "upset" victim, right?

Nevada is the 12 seed.

 

[calsnowskier]

Nevada is the 12 seed.

I was referring to Minnesota (his OTHER team)

 

[SFGRTB]

I was referring to Minnesota (his OTHER team)

I did not know that.

I watched UNR play Saint Mary's back in November and I knew they had a shot to win the Mountain West after that game. Just tons of talent, but it was going to be the inconsistencies they held them back. Glad they figured it out.

They got a pretty bad draw though, IMO. Should be an exiting game though.

 

[LHG]

More cuts yesterday, all options to Sacramento (but I guess one or two get re-assigned somewhere else):
Kyle Crick, Ian Gardeck, Chase Johnson, Reyes Moronta, Dan Slania and Miguel Gomez.
Unless I've missed some cuts, that puts the following still in camp:
Pitchers (23)
Tyler Beede (nri)
Ty Blach
Madison Bumgarner
Matt Cain
Johnny Cueto
Jose Dominguez (nri)
Cory Gearrin
Roberto Gomez (nri)
David Hernandez (nri)
George Kontos
Derek Law
Mark Melancon
Matt Moore
Bryan Morris (nri)
Steven Okert
Josh Osich
Neil Ramirez (nri)
Michael Roth (nri)
Jeff Samardzija
Kraig Sitton (nri)
Will Smith
Hunter Strickland
Albert Suarez

Catchers (7)
Trevor Brown
Tim Federowicz (nri)
Aramis Garcia (nri)
Nick Hundley
Josmil Pinto (nri)
Buster Posey
Matt Winn (nri)

Infielders (14)
Christian Arroyo (nri)
Gordon Beckham (nri)
Brandon Belt
Orlando Calixte
Brandon Crawford
Conor Gillaspie
Aaron Hill (nri)
Jae-gyun Hwang (nri)
Ryder Jones (nri)
Chris Marrero (nri)
Eduardo Nunez
Joe Panik
Jimmy Rollins (nri)
Kelby Tomlinson

Outfielders (10)
Wynton Bernard (nri)
Steve Duggar (nri)
Gorkys Hernandez
Michael Morse (nri)
Jarrett Parker
Hunter Pence
Justin Ruggiano (nri)
Austin Slater (nri)
Denard Span
Mac Williamson

That is still quite a few cuts left to make. There must be some I've missed (i.e. Garcia, Bernard, Duggar, Slater, etc.).