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2017-18 Trade Deadline Thread

Kings4OT

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I still think he isn't 100%, but if he would retire...wow that would be the best we could really hope for
 

Kings4OT

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I'm hearing Gaborik and Shore for Phanuef and Tor pays 25% of dion...I would be ok with that since Gab and Shore aren't a loss...not sure I want Dion but you all want a dman so you got him
 

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old and slow is the new NHL
 

Kings4OT

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If Dion was a little faster, hustled a bit more, moved the puck better, cleared the net and cost about half what he does....it would be an ok deal
 

PuckinUgly57

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Interesting trade but something needed to be done to shake the malaise off this team. They look like they are about to go into full fledged free fall any moment now.I was in LA the last 2 days at LAX Marriott for work, went to a place called The Tavern in El Segundo (nice place, my kind of bar) for a beer and dinner after we ended at 5:30pm to kill time before heading home (traffic said 2:35 to get from LA to Yorba Linda - funk dat) and it was already 5-0 when I turned the radio on. I get there and they started making a comeback but that backhand from Skinner was a back breaker and you could tell the game was over. This team is a mess so you knew something was coming.

When I mentioned a Cup contending team needs a legitimate T4 however, Phaneuf was not what I had in mind. I read the rumors too and was wondering why would Blake look at him, but apparently they kicked the can at him last summer near the draft and Gaborik being part of the deal going back was the deal breaker.

Blake somehow convinced Dorion to take him and retain some salary from Phaneuf so that's a win but the Kings have some dead salary totaling $2.853 million in the buyout of Greene, the Richards fiasco and retaining half of Zatkoff (didn't know that - that's how bad this guy is? The Kings had to keep half his $900,000 to get rid of him? Brutal). I'm more concerned with Phaneuf moving forward, he has 3 years left still on his deal and will be making $5.25 million from the Kings.

Phaneuf can play both RD and LD but again is a LH shot which the Kings have way too many of. If he can just eat up some minutes and play defensive hockey I think the Kings will be OK. He has a cannon for a shot and is very physical, hopefully he cleans out the front of the net because none of the defenders on this team do. MacDermid did and before him Greene, but the Kings don't have that snarl on the back end anymore. Phaneuf may be able to help there and also on the PP.

He's a big guy, 6'3"/230 or so and I remember when he was breaking into the NHL he was leveling people all over all the time. He's part of that 2003 draft class that will go down as one of the best in NHL history and the Kings have quite a few of those guys - Carter, Richards, Brown, Boyle, now Phaneuf. Nutty.

Gaborik, I hope he does well in Ottawa. He put up 27 goals just 3 years ago in LA and became aa legend after that 2014 Cup run in LA history but I'm not sure why it didn't click again here the last 2 years. Injuries of course but he was still an effective player when he was on. I don't think the "Kings Curse" will hit where he goes on a tear there after being traded, Boucher still employs his amateur 1-3-1 trap system designed to produce low scoring defensive games. Coming from LA I think Boucher will be happy knowing Gaborik can play that style. At least that contract if off the books but then the Kings take on Phaneuf's deal.

Nick Shore...see ya. At least a year overdue to be moved. Solid checker but hands worse than Craig Johnson, I honestly cannot remember a King in the last 25 years who had worse hands than Shore - seriously.

I also disagree, Nate Thompson is the better player than Shore. He is a very underrated player and I think you guys will be surprised with his grit and toughness and he has some offensive skill for a B6 guy.
 
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LoCal Kings

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If Gaborik retires before the end of his contract, while the Kings are still stuck with Phaneuf's contract, then I'll be sour. Otherwise, at least they get a player who they consider an NHL regular for about the same $.
 

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Just read a Mayors Manor point regarding Phaneuf: if there is another expansion draft with similar rules in the next couple years for Seattle, the Kings would be forced to use a protection spot for Phaneuf as he has a NMC. He refused to waive it for the Vegas expansion (but I bet he wish he did considering Vegas is in 1st!)
 

PuckinUgly57

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If Gaborik retires before the end of his contract, while the Kings are still stuck with Phaneuf's contract, then I'll be sour. Otherwise, at least they get a player who they consider an NHL regular for about the same $.

The Kings essentially spent $375,000 more from the math I have done on the total transaction and got what could be a T4 defender. It was essentially trading big dollars from a forward position to a defense position.

I'm not expecting Phaneuf to return to his Calgary days but he is a veteran, well respected and liked in locker rooms by all accounts and should help out the defense overall. If he puts up some points, great but the way this defense and goaltending has looked the last 6 weeks they can use all the help they can get.

I'm thinking he will be paired with Martinez when the dust settles although he will be tried with Doughty too. Doughty and Muzzin have been playing the most together this season and most of Forbort's minutes have been with Doughty and Folin. Makes sense to keep Muzzin/Doughty, Phaneuf/Martinez and Forbort/Folin.

Just read a Mayors Manor point regarding Phaneuf: if there is another expansion draft with similar rules in the next couple years for Seattle, the Kings would be forced to use a protection spot for Phaneuf as he has a NMC. He refused to waive it for the Vegas expansion (but I bet he wish he did considering Vegas is in 1st!)

The deal with any NMC/NTC is the acquiring team has to honor it since they were not the team that issued it. I have not read yet that the Kings have done that but wouldn't be surprised if they did.
 

Kings4OT

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While I agree I have heard nothing but good things about Phanuef as a person...with a huge ego. I really think he started his decline around the "sloppy seconds" remark....maybe I am remembering wrong but he was a top D until about that time. I dunno if the mojo wore off because of it or what.

I do think the Kings need a hard hitting D that can clear the net. I loved Green for that reason and thought Shenn was ok in that role. I just think it could be found for less then 5.2m. If Gabby retires I will be even more disappointed in this deal. I am still unconvinced Carter will fix the scoring woes and I hope there is a plan to help with that in some way
 

PuckinUgly57

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OK this is a long analysis (what's new with me, right?):

While I agree I have heard nothing but good things about Phanuef as a person...with a huge ego. I really think he started his decline around the "sloppy seconds" remark....maybe I am remembering wrong but he was a top D until about that time. I dunno if the mojo wore off because of it or what.

I think it's a coincidence honestly, just looking over his career stat line he came out of the gate firing (49, 50, 60 and 47 points his first 4 years in the league with goal totals of 20, 17, 17 and 11) so there was going to be a natural drop off. The comments from Avery were in December 2008 and he still managed to put up 47 points that season.

Two things that are sticking out to me begin after he was traded to Toronto at the deadline in 2009-10:
1. He spent 7 seasons in TO and their teams only made the POs once. His level of play didn't change but he played on one of the worst defensive teams of this decade a good 5 years of those 7. He is a decent defender but he can't do it all and his stats suffered from points to analytics.

You know my stance on analytics, they tell some of the story but not the whole story - we just need to look at LA and what I have said the last 5-6 years, holding onto the puck/cycle/cycle/cycle/throw a low percentage SOG from the point looks great on the possession line but ultimately doesn't prove anything if the goals aren't going in.

We all saw year after year the Kings would lead the league in SOG but rank in the lower third for GF but everyone jumped on the analytics bandwagon using LA as the benchmark. They change focus from quantity to quality this year and what do you know, they are scoring more goals from high percentage areas although their offense is still struggling a bit as we know.

Just like plus/minus there is a whole different element that goes into it and without watching carefully you're not getting the true story. This isn't an accounting ledger, this is a sport where actions of others affect your game and stats on a shift to shift basis. There are variables not in your control.

Back to TO, being in the holy land of hockey, constant scrutiny, pressure, media and getting a 7 year/$49 million contract extension will bring anyone under the spotlight let alone a big name and big contract. TO was rudderless, still in their "win now" mindset even though foundational pieces weren't in place and he came under a lot of fire.

2. His shot totals decreased significantly after 2009, coincidentally when he was traded from Calgary to TO. From 2005-2009 his SOG were 242, 230, 263, 277 and 225. After 2008, he would hit 200+ once (202, 2011-12) and has averaged 147 SOG since (I extrapolated the 2012-13 lockout season to average this). Until 2012-13, he ranked in the T10 for SOG by a defenseman every year from 2005.

Huge drop off as you can tell and he was getting T2 minutes every year except this year in Ottawa but I didn't include that number since it's still in-season (86 in Ottawa this year, on pace for a career low 133). His S% has also steadily dropped the last 5 years as well.

This brings me to the main point: Ottawa made the trade for him 2 years ago because they wanted to stock up and make a run. They traded a lot of youth and picks for veteran players, and he was one of them. Reason being is they had Karlsson in his prime making only $6.5 million a season and Dorion wanted to maxiimze that. Makes sense, LA did the same thing with the moves Dumbo made having solid players in their prime on cheaper contracts at the time like Brown ($3.175 million), Quick ($1.8 million), Kopitar ($6.8 million) and Doughty ($7 million) and adding Carter, Richards, etc and adding significant value pieces in free agency with Mitchell and Scuderi. The difference is LA drafted extremely well and developed those guys, Ottawa did not.

They made their move last year making it to Game 7 of the ECFs but then the wheels fell off, that charge was a farce. Being a small market they shifted their focus to cash savings which is why Phaneuf was moved. The Senators will save roughly $17 million in real dollars by making this move and they are about to go into rebuild like LA did - they will have younger players on ELCs/bridge contracts for a while and hope to have the same success LA did but that all depends on the quality of picks and how they develop them. Their futures are in worse shape than LA's at the moment in terms of prospects and lack of draft picks, traded in the aforementioned deals.

Lastly, Phaneuf and Cici have been the T2 defenders in Ottawa for some time now and they simply are not a good fit together. That is also something you will b hearing/reading about from Ottawa fans. They were atrocious yet Boucher adamantly refused to break them up.

Phaneuf is not the be all end all, and certainly is no savior, but you have to look at the whole course of his story to understand why he got so much flak and the circumstances surrounding it.

I do think the Kings need a hard hitting D that can clear the net. I loved Green for that reason and thought Shenn was ok in that role. I just think it could be found for less then 5.2m. If Gabby retires I will be even more disappointed in this deal. I am still unconvinced Carter will fix the scoring woes and I hope there is a plan to help with that in some way

I forgot about Schenn, and he did a decent job. He was tough in front of Quick but was a turnover machine, which was an issue on a team like LA who was built on puck possession. I was hoping they would have kept him for cheap but I think he went to AZ on a cheaper deal because he wanted more ice time but he wasn't going to get that here with at least defenders ahead of him who were more responsible with the puck in Muzzin, Doughty and Martinez. But he was tough and I think did a solid job of cleaning house in front of Quick.

I too do not think the Kings are done, I think they are still looking for some second level scoring but I woudln't expect a big name - this move was the big one. And fair enough about Carter and rightfully so, that is a major injury to come back from and be productive but I think for some reason he will be the spark they need.

Get that tier two scorer, get Carter back, level out the lines and I think it'll be fun for us fans down the stretch.
 
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LoCal Kings

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Question: Weren't Mitchell and Scuderi getting paid somewhere in the $4M range during their first contracts with the Kings? If Phaneuf can play a similar role as one of those guys, than $5.2M cap hit doesn't look so bad comparably.

Glass half full: Salary cap is higher now than when the Kings won their cups (and should go up $3M- $5M in off-season). Also, they traded Gaborik who hasn't really looked like an NHL caliber player for a while now, for someone who is still definitely decent NHL caliber player (albeit with a bit of a high cap hit).

Glass half empty: As Puck mentioned, a lot of core players make more $$$ now than a few years ago, with Doughty due a good raise in 2019. So, higher % of cap taken up by those players. Also, as mentioned, there is is possibility of Gaborik deciding to retire (highly speculative), and /or the Kings being forced to now use a protection spot for Phaneuf during a possible Seattle expansion draft in 2020 (more probable).

All in all, I am definitely Glass is Half Full on the trade.

Once Carter and Lewis are back, then one d-man has to go to Ontario (Folin or Gravel?) unless another trade is made. but I am even more interested to see what they do with the Defense core in June, especially if the Voynov situation starts gaining legitimate momentum for reinstatement.
 
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Puck, Tavern is cool. I went to school down there about 10 years ago (LMU).

Lots to take in after reading everybody's posts. I'm going positive on the trade as well. I was dreading Phaneuf coming to LA for the cap hit, but it really is pretty much a wash, and Gaborik was a healthy scratch a lot lately anyway. Phaneuf might fit in perfectly with how slow LA is (Only half kidding). I like the edge that he might bring, which you guys nailed has definitely been missing (I like a guy like Phaneuf when playing the Ducks and their big forwards). Andreoff has heart, but our enforcer is 5'10. I've said it before that that's the old kings. Small, slow, with lots of heart. No slight on Andreoff, but he's the old (losing) mold. Phaneuf is not THE answer, but I don't think this team is worse off than they were Tuesday morning.

I also agree that I'm worried about 2 things, that Carter won't come in and be able to right this ship (I mean, he'd have to hit the ground running), and the second is LA needs to win some games before he comes back just to keep pace, or it won't even matter what Carter can do. They absolutely blew that huge points lead they had. As for eye test, man, there have been several periods of late where they have been dominated so bad, that I've honestly asked if at this isn't the worst Kings team in 15 years (I know they're injured, but when they win, they squeak them out, and when they lose, it's by a lot). Lots of heart against Tampa Bay, but we need more than heart right now.

It's maddening to have Quick miss 60+ games last year and then Carter pretty much the same this year, because we all have that "What if" that we can't shake. But overall I trust in what Blake has done thus far in his limited run, and we didn't move Vilardi or our 1st round pick, so I'm happy about that. Just going to play the waiting game and hope for the best right now. A win over Pitt and a strong finish to the road trip would be great right about now.
 

PuckinUgly57

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Question: Weren't Mitchell and Scuderi getting paid somewhere in the $4M range during their first contracts with the Kings? If Phaneuf can play a similar role as one of those guys, than $5.2M cap hit doesn't look so bad comparably

There are a few guys Dumbo signed that paid off very well for LA: Scuderi, Mitchell and Regehr.

Scuderi was signed to 4 years/$13.6 million in July 2009 by LA ($3.4 million cap hit, age 30). After that expired he went back to Pittsburgh who signed him for 4 years/$13.5 million ($3.375 million cap hit) and he wasn't worth it anymore at that point in time. He took a bit of a discount to come to LA because he believed where the Kings were going (and he was right) plus he had been coming off two low end/bridge contracts, 2 years/$1.05 million (2005) and 2 years/$1.425 million so this was his first "real" contract. He was a late bloomer and didn't become an NHL regular until almost age 28 after years and years in the minors.

He had just won the Cup with the Penguins not even a month earlier, the Penguins needed to resign Malkin and Fleury that same summer (and did - 5 years/$43.5 million for Malkin, 7 years/$35 million for Fleury), Crosby was in year 2 of a $43 million deal, Letang would need a new deal in summer 2010. The Penguins were about to be cash strapped so money was tight and while he played a crucial role in that 2008-09 win for them they weren't going to be able to sign him for much, let alone what Dumbo gave him.

Dumbo no doubt identified him as a key player moving forward and gave him more money than he had seen in his career combined and he jumped at it. It was a stellar signing and he was such an important piece of the Kings first Cup, busted open face notwithstanding. I think this is one of the best free agent signings ever in the NHL.

Mitchell was also a value find on the high risk spectrum, he had an extensive injury history - mostly concussions but groins, broken wrist, etc. - so his value was not real high even though when he was healthy he was one of the premier shutdown defenders in the league. He signed two contracts with LA, both of them for 2 years/$7 million ($3.5 million cap hit). He missed all of 2012-13 in the first year of the second contract when he injured his knee requiring surgery during off season work outs and the Kings missed him. He had completed a 4 year/$14 million deal ($3.5 million cap hit) with the Canucks the summer before he came to LA but also missed almost 50 games that last season with a concussion. He too paid off in spades but easily could have been a disaster as well.

Regehr is the last one, when the Kings acquired him he was in the last year of 5 year/$20.1 million deal thaa Buffalo signed him for ($4.2 million cap hit). You can never have too much veteran defenders in the POs and this too ended up being a shrewd move for Dumbo. At the end of that season (2012-13), the Kings signed him to 2 years/$6 million ($3 million). While he got injured against Anaheim in Game 1 during the second Cup run he was solid all year long for LA and was able to get into 8 PO games to get his name on the Cup as well.

All in all, these guys were paid the going rate for veteran, stay at home defenders (between $3-4 million as you said). That really hasn't changed much it seems - this is before the salary cap era obviously but I remember Aaron Miller was paid 4 years/$14 million (average $3.5 million per year) when the Kings resigned him near the end of the 2003 season and Norstrom was paid 4 years/$14.5 million (average $3.625 million per year) when the Kings resigned him in fall 2002.

Phaneuf is obviously paid much more than that but the times are different and he was paid a premium forgoing many of his GIII UFA years. I think the $5.25 million about right these days because top end defenders go fr about $5 million and above. Would I have paid that for him? Probably not, but the Leafs did and Blake did well to get Ottawa to retain 25% so that he falls into that price range for LA.


All in all, I am definitely Glass is Half Full on the trade.

Me too but because the Kings flipped that sunk salary in Gaborik into what could be a T4 defender. Money much better spent and correctly spent. I know some of our readers don't agree the Kings need defense, but you aren't going very far with the T3 the Kings have. Definitely needed one more body capable of playing big minutes and the nastiness is just a bonus.

Cutting out early today to watch his debut.

=)~~

Once Carter and Lewis are back, then one d-man has to go to Ontario (Folin or Gravel?) unless another trade is made. but I am even more interested to see what they do with the Defense core in June, especially if the Voynov situation starts gaining legitimate momentum for reinstatement.

Your scenario creates an interesting situation for sure with Phaneuf now in the mix. Getting Voovnov back would be a godsend but there will be all kinds of legal and ethical hurdles to get over to make that happen. That would put the Kings with Doughty/Martinez/Phaneuf/Muzzin/Voynov as 5 of the 7 which looks a lot better than what it looks right now. That will also create some situations where guys will need to get moved as well.

Regarding Ontario, neither Folin or Gravel are Waivers exempt and I think someone would pick either one of the up. Folin has played well whenever he has played and he is physical and a RH shot, both of which the Kings lack. Gravel is getting better but is more of a utility guy, he doesn't excel at any one thing but does a little bit of everything well. Losing either guy would hurt but can be overcome. Folin is on a 1 year deal and will be a GIII UFA this summer. I would like to see him return in the 5-6 slots.

LaDue is the only exempt defender on the roster right now and it's close to decision time with him. He's making it tough too, he has played better this season compared to last and is that RH shot as well, moves the puck and more offensive minded than defensive.

He's almost like Voynov but still developing his defensive game and is an interesting player to keep an eye on.
 

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Q: Do rosters expand to beyond 23 after trade deadline? Or sometime after Playoffs begin?

Maybe they float Brodzinski or Amadio back to Ontario and roll with 13 F and 8 D.
 
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