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2017-18 Trade Deadline Thread

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Kings' started by PuckinUgly57, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. PuckinUgly57

    PuckinUgly57 Well-Known Member

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    Figured I would start one, feel free to post all things NHL related (minors, prospects, etc) here moving forward. Not seeing a lot of buzz anywhere yet, but we still have about 3 weeks to go so it should heat up. Seems like a lot of the wheels start turning about 4-5 days prior to the actual deadline with a lot of tire kicking leading up to it.

    For the Kings, two mini moves from Blake in the last 2 weeks trading Zatkoff to Columbus for Future Considerations and then moving defenseman Zac Leslie to Vegas also for FCs.

    Zatkoff makes absolute sense, he was a train wreck in LA this time around and a huge reason why the season fell apart in 2016-17; Budaj held the fort as much as he could but not having a viable back up goalie forced Sutter to play him more than he probably should have. Not having much cap space also didn't allow the Kings to get anyone decent as a back up.

    I see both side of the coin here with Sutter - lots of Kings fans rallied to Budaj' defense when Sutter kept stating goaltending was an issue (referring to Budaj mainly) but looking at the facts the Kings had to use a guy who had been out of the NHL for 3 years prior to playing 53 games in 2016-17, the most games he has played in the NHL in nearly a decade (56, 2008-09 Avalanche). The guy simply should not have been ridden into the ground like Sutter liked to do with his goalies. On the flip side, he drastically improved at the AHL level the 2 years prior, got his mojo back and held the fort for LA for a bulk of the season. That also carries some responsibility, you have to be ready to play like a #1 and after January 2017 he really didn't. he really fell apart, hit a wall, whatever you want to call it and was a big reason why games lost in January cost the Kings in April (although there were a lot of factors - he was just one of them).

    This comes back to finances and Zatkoff, and the guys just sucked balls. It was a catch 22 situation for LA but this little thing called "money" makes making moves to improve hard on a cap heavy team. This is also why I am so baffled at Stevens' penchant for not playing Keumper as much as he should; it's been obviuos Quick is off his game since the last week of December and you have a guy who was on the cusp of becoming a starting goalie in the NHL just 2 years ago and is outplaying Quick - play him. This is a luxury the Kings did not have last season and we saw the results, and as much as I like Quick and there is no other goalie I would want in the POs when it's time to win a game, he is not focused for whatever reason and the race is tight. Go with the guy who is winning you games - Quick is a team first guy 100% and he will fully understand.

    The next move is Zac Leslie, which is interesting. He is a lot like Gravel, LH shot, good skater, more of an offensive guy, a jack of all trades master of none but he doesn't have the size Gravel does (6'4"/215 vs 6'0"/177). He is 24, hasn't really established himself as a legitimate AHL or NHL player and is on an expiring contract so I think Blake is making room within the organization for new blood. He was a 6th round pick in 2013, gives Vegas a little AHL depth and clears money and a contract spot for Blake.

    Anyway, rambling. Post anything you find here.
     



  2. lasportzphan

    lasportzphan Well-Known Member

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    Should the Kings attempt to trade Brown while the value is as high as it ever has been in 3 years?
     
  3. Vegas

    Vegas Well-Known Member

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    His value still doesn't match his contract.
     
  4. LoCal Kings

    LoCal Kings Member

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    Agree that Brown's value does not equal his cap hit. But if the cap takes a good jump upwards in off-season, Brown's contract doesn't look quite as hampering to the overall cap. Would much rather trade Gaborik's contract (albeit a lower cap hit and one less year) than Brown.

    I don't see the Kings in play for a blockbuster signing of Tavares, etc, for 10 million anyways. Even if they rid themselves of either of the aforementioned contracts, a Kane or a Neal at 5-6 million is probably the highest they could go in off-season.
     
  5. Kings4OT

    Kings4OT Suck my Member

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    Nash for Gaborik, get it done

    I never really could figure Nash out after he went to NYR, but wouldn't mind dumping the Gabby contract for someone who needs to play lights out for a new contract
     
  6. PuckinUgly57

    PuckinUgly57 Well-Known Member

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    Brown cannot be moved no matter what, that contract is a killer for any team including LA. He still has 4 years on that deal after 2017-18 at $5.875 million cap hit ($19 million cash).

    I guess you could try and sell the "intangibles" (former captain, raised a doormat franchise into a winner, 2 time Cup winner, only American born captain to raise the Cup twice, blah blah blah) but even that has lost its luster. Toronto could be a potential partner, they have about $4.7 million in available cap space for the deadline and Brown would count about $1.9 million against that for 2017-18.

    The next 4 years however they have that same $5.875 million cap hit but this summer have expiring GIII contracts in van Riemsdyk, Komarov, Moore, Bozak and Polak totaling $13.5 million but some of those guys will be back. With Brown on board that reduces that cap space to $7.625 which assures at least 3 of those guys are gone. van Riemsdyk is the one I would target obviously but with that much term and money left on Brown's deal it wouldn't be a 1:1 swap, LA would need to throw some stuff in and after that figure out how to keep van Riemsdyk.

    Pretty sure we all knew his clip wouldn't last - he has seen a steady decline in production since the start of the season (Oct 6G/6A, Nov 4G/5A, Dec 3G/5A, Jan 2G/4A and Feb 1G/1A). His last 3 goals have been against the bottom feeders too (2 against Edmonton 1/2 and 1 against the Coyotes on 2/3 - taking out the two goal game he hadn't scored since 12/21 against Colorado until this past weekend. Ouch) and he is getting T6 minutes so I think it's safe to say the Brown Train has left the station barring an uptick down the stretch. He proved everyone wrong in 2012, I hope he can do it again because the Kings need him being strapped in contract hell with him.

    I too do not see any blockbusters coming, the Kings do not have the space for it and have enough long term contracts that could go sideways in Quick, Carter, Kopitar, etc. Brown and Gaborik have already proven their contracts have, no need to add on unless there is some significant cap clearing moves including at least 1 of those 2 guys.

    Which brings me to Gaborik/Nash, Gaborik wasn't a favorite in NY as it was before he was moved to Columbus - Sather signed him to 5 years/$37.5 million in 2009, traded him to Columbus in 2013 and the Kings acquired him in 2014. Current NY GM Jeff Gorton (third year) has been with the Rangers 11 years including under Sather so I can't see the same management taking a flyer on him again especially with this contract.

    They are on record willing to retain 50% of Nash's salary on a deal moving him out, I don't think they would be willing to acquire another long term albatross contract on a player they didn't like in the first place. Nash would be a decent rental however, but I'm not sure what the asking price is or if the Kings even have it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  7. PuckinUgly57

    PuckinUgly57 Well-Known Member

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    Per Bob MacKenzie, the Rangers have set the asking price for Nash at a 1st round pick, top prospect and a lesser prospect or a combination of lesser prospect/pick. Really?

    The guy is 33, has averaged roughly 40 points each of the last 6 seasons (including this season, 25 points), hasn't cleared 30 goals in 4 years, barely averages 20 in the last 6 years? Name recognition much?

    I'm offering a conditional 2nd round pick and prospect and asking for 50% salary retention - take it or leave it. That conditional is also based on at least a WCF appearance because he has only 15 goals in 77 PO games and tends to disappear even more after April 1.
     
  8. davnlaguna

    davnlaguna Well-Known Member

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    Countdown to TradeCentre: Saturated rental market? - Article - TSN

    Kings part

    According to Garrioch, the Los Angeles Kings have shown some interest in both defenceman Dion Phaneuf and Johnny Oduya, who is on an expiring contract. He adds a Phaneuf deal remains unlikely due to his $7 million cap hit, but notes the Kings did try to work out a deal for the veteran at the 2017 draft.
     
  9. Kings4OT

    Kings4OT Suck my Member

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    No way anyone gives the Rags close to that for Nash, I know NYR wouldn't want Gabs back....but its my pipe dream haha. I really don't think LA needs a D....but at this point whatever I guess. With Carter coming back Pearson also needs to come back. Brown need to get back to the 3rd line which probably happens when Carts comes back
     
  10. LoCal Kings

    LoCal Kings Member

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    I would love to see how GMs project the salary cap in future years prior to dishing out some of these long term contracts. Even for players that GMs go a bit overboard on, they must know that a player in his mid-30s won't justify the same cap hit as in his late 20s. Just curious to know if GMs have vastly different Salary Cap projections, and thus justify higher cap hits for older players.
     
  11. Stunner_At_Staples_Kings

    Stunner_At_Staples_Kings Giant Member

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    Nice thoughts overall. Agree that sitting back is probably the best move (Unfortunately). Based on that minor league trade, sounds like everything points to Villardi being in the lineup next training camp. Kings could be in a comfortable retooling or sorts, if not for the pending UFA next year that is Doughty ("Win now or I leave next summer"). You wonder if you don't at least consider maximizing trade value on Doughty this summer (Especially if LA misses the Playoffs yet again), and use the money to try to sign Tavares. Just an idea if Doughty wants $12mil/year or something. Also, lost in all of this is Karlsson, who might take less than Doughty, and could at least be considered. I love Drew, but man does he make it seem like he's in it for himself and himself alone.

    Either way, if you resign Doughty, you're going need a ton of cheaper farm options in order to be able to compete in the next few years, so it's important to keep those 1st rounders (See Kempe and Villardi).

    Brown has played well this year, and I am less upset at him this year for whatever reason. It's more the injury to Carter and Gaborik not producing that stink. Also, on the topic of bottom 6 guys, Mitchell sucks. I mean, he is supposed to have speed, if nothing else, and he can't outskate anybody.

    Agree that Kuemper has to be in right now. Quick can just rest up and he'd no doubt be the guy come Playoff time (If that happens).

    We do need a Top 4 defenseman as always (Especially with Martinez looking like he might be injured every month). LaDue and Gravel are serviceable and it feels like that first year for Muzzin. Not ideal, but he grew a lot from that 2013 year and was huge the next in that cup run in 2014. So there are worse things than not landing a defenseman.

    So some defensive depth would be nice, and Carter coming back, while keeping our high picks would be a pretty okay scenario headed into next year.
     
  12. Kings4OT

    Kings4OT Suck my Member

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    I would rather Muffin than Karlsson....which isn't saying much, if you mean play him as a forward maybe. I am kind of curious why everyone wants another dman. Breakouts are ok other than when teams stand up to the forwards on the blueline on entry, Kings are #2 in goals allowed, 10th in shots allowed....but 19th in goals for and 23rd in shots for. I really don't think this is on the defense so much. Brown was kind of puck luck for awhile but that's gone, Kopitar is back to his normal (typical) pace. IMO if Pearson and Gaborik would contribute the Kings would be in a lot better situation. Sure Carter might help, but he might not. I think Iafallo and Kempe are great and wish we had 1 more like them. Mitchell has been great on faceoffs, but not much else.
     
  13. Stunner_At_Staples_Kings

    Stunner_At_Staples_Kings Giant Member

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    Yeah I guess it's just the offense from the defense that I think needed a little more. The difference LaDue has already made seems to be good enough for now (Get Martinez back will help too. He's just starting to have a serious injury track record). I liked MacDermid, but when he's with Forbort and Folin in the lineup, that's too many pylons to be able to compete with fast teams.

    Agree with Pearson and Gaborik being terrible this year. Pearson was one of the highlights last year and he has regressed mightily. Although he set a nice screen on that 3rd goal against Edmonton the other night. Gaborik... man I don't know. I feel like he can be an asset still, but I also don't disagree he should be a healthy scratch right now until he figures it out.

    7 game road trip coming up and LA has actually been a pretty good road team. Huge trip right here. if they can tread water and get some good road wins, they could be setup pretty well to maybe get Carter back with some time still.
     
  14. PuckinUgly57

    PuckinUgly57 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly I agree, Muffin somewhat has his moments playing defense where as Karlsson, I don't know what the hoopla about that guy is besides the fact he can score a lot of points and has a rad mullet.

    That said, as much as I can't stand Muffin and think he is overrated I would trust him in a critical situation 200% more than Karlsson. Now if I need a goal, I'm trusting Karlsson over Muffin and Doughty although Doughty is no slouch himself generating offense, that simply isn't his only calling card.

    Doughty has been on the ice while the Kings have been shorthanded a total of 156:19 this season, or averaging 2:54 SH ATOI per game (156:19/53 games). Karlsson has been on the ice while the Sens have been shorthanded a total of 71:46, or averaging 1:30 SH ATOI per game.

    Keep in mind SH means not only the PK but also when an extra attacker is on as well. That is nothing short of pathetic from a "franchise defender" like Karlsson, who is also a -23 (6th worst of all defenders/10th worst of all skaters). Even Jack Johnson is a -8 this season (although Johnson has requested a trade because he is getting bottom 3rd minutes), he looks like a T2 defender compared to Karlsson.

    If you look back at the Ottawa game 12/7 where Doughty scored the OT GW, Karlsson is on the wrong side of almost every goal (he finished a -3). The guy simply sucks at defense - it's a telling tale when your head coach doesn't put you out there on a PK or when a defensive stand is necessary. I'm not kidding, look at the highlights.

    They really should just move him up and try and shore up the defense and goaltending because Karlsson couldn't cover a piece of dog shit with a 20' tarp.

    You need a solid T4 if you want to win in the POs, and the Kings do not have that. They haven't since the Voynov situation unfortunately and finances haven't permitted getting another one. Voynov truly was a find, not to mention the Kings had him cheap at $4.17 million (6 years/$25 million, signed June 2013. In cash, this year he would be making $5.15 million, which is dirt cheap compared to other T2 defenders. Dumbo did right on this deal just like he did on Doughty) through the end of next season.

    Doughty is the incumbent number one, and both Martinez and Muzzin teeter on T2/T3 defenders. After that, the revolving door since Voynov left is nutty - I'm sure I'm missing some folks but the names I can recall are: McBain, McNabb, Schultz, Scuderi (again), Ehrhoff, Forbort, Schenn, Gilbert, Gravel, LaDue, Fantenberg, McDermid, Folin, etc. None of these guys have been effective in a T4 role although some guys can't really be held to the same standards as others because of lack of experience (Gravel, LaDue, et al).

    They tried to get that T4 in Sekera, but his stay in LA was hampered by the injury and then he left for Edmonton so LA never really got a look at what he could do. None of those names match the talent level of Voynov including guys on the roster now like Forbort and Gravel, Voynov is a legitimate T2 defender and in my opinion was going to be a future Norris candidate if not winner. He is solid.

    Chicago relied on their T4 in the last Cup win because their D5-6 were terrible. They were one injury away to the T4 from not winning that Cup, and LA has been in that spot the last 4 years with really only a T3 and then a significant drop off in talent from D4-7.

    With so much money tied up in the big contracts though, there really isn't much LA can do. Interestingly enough, last month I heard Voynov is indeed interested in coming back to the NHL. The Kings hold his rights, but he would need to complete his season in the KHL (April) before he could be considered for the NHL. On top of that, LA really has no leverage in this process and he needs to have a sit down with Bettman. The blowback would be huge across the NHL, but IMO the man has done his time and should be allowed to come back to the NHL.

    Imagine if that happened just in time for a PO run...

    Mitchell hustles and has speed, and his FOs have resulted in goals. I think he is serviceable for now until someone displaces him. Amadio is looking like he could be that guy, Shore still looks baffled in the offensive zone 4-5 years into his NHL career. Solid defensively but he is a one trick pony. Just as bad as Karlsson is defensively, Shore is offensively. He somehow misses wide open nets on a consistent basis, shanks shots wide, chooses to pass instead of shoot, etc.

    I agree if Pearson and Gaborik could continute more than they are, the Kings are in good shape. I think Carter's return will really give a jolt to this team and we can expect some wins when that happens. Just a hunch but it'll move guys around to where they really need to be and level out the lines.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  15. LoCal Kings

    LoCal Kings Member

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    There was another Karlsson vs. Doughty stat comparison a year or 2 ago. The stat was TOI during the last 2 minutes of a game with the player's team holding a 1-goal lead. Karlsson's average TOI in that situation was something like 10-20 seconds. I.e. ...... whatever other no-name D-men the Sens had back then were more trusted at preserving a lead than Karlsson. How can a guy, albeit super-talented offensively, be considered for the Norris if his team doesn't trust him defensively?

    I've had Voynov in the back of my mind the last 2 seasons. Even if his KHL team is out playoffs in April, no way Bettman lets him back in for 2018 NHL playoffs. But I do believe re-entry come July 1st is realistic. I think it largely depends on how everyone handles the PR (Voynov, Kings, NHL, + any team the Kings may trade his rights to...). Got to have some real legit acknowledgment of the crime, sincere remorse, and show a course of rehabilitation, in order for re-in-statement to have any chance of success.
     
  16. LoCal Kings

    LoCal Kings Member

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    My 2 cents on Gaborik: If they cannot trade him anytime before July 1st, 2019, then I say buy him out. But not this 2018 summer.

    Per Capfriendly, here is what 2018 buyout (6 years worth) looks like on his current $4.875M cap hit:
    2018-19, Buy-out cap hit = $1.5M
    2019-20, Buy-out cap hit = $2.9M
    2020-21, Buy-out cap hit = $3.0M
    2021-22, 2022-23, and 2023-24, Buy-out cap hit = $1.2M

    But if the Kings wait until next summer, 2019, then the Buy-out is only 4 years, and much more palatable. Especially given the $2M "savings" in the 1st 2 years would directly apply to Doughty's next contract:
    2019-20, Buy-out cap hit = $2.75M
    2020-21, Buy-out cap hit = $2.85M
    2021-22, and 2022-23, Buy-oout cap hit = $1.05M

    Question: If the Kings trade Gaborik (+ asset) to say, Arizona..... can Arizona buy-him-out right away? Or is there some clause in the CBA against that? Just wondering.
     
  17. Kings4OT

    Kings4OT Suck my Member

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    Personally I think Gaborik is not close to 100% which wouldn't surprise me, either that or he has been watching a lot of Pencakes highlights to figure out how not to be involved in the play. If he could be dealt, great...otherwise I would rather see him for part of next season before a buyout.

    While I agree you need legitimate T4D, I really don't think that's what is hampering the Kings this season. While non of those guys are Voynov, they can be fairly solid when paired correctly.

    Mitchell does hustle for sure, maybe he just needs better linemates which is where getting Carter back helps the most....totally agree it should put the lines where they need to be
     
  18. PuckinUgly57

    PuckinUgly57 Well-Known Member

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    The idea of Gaborik being bought out this summer or next has been kicked around from what I have read, he got a reprieve last summer IMO because he was injured. Blake was injured a lot as a King, so perhaps he felt the need to keep him on board during injuries much like many McMaster and Taylor did, paying the favor back to an NHL player because Blake was a heavy hitter when he was part of the NHLPA as well as a player.

    Either that or because the CBA wouldn't let him, he couldn't but wanted to.

    =)~~

    I agree 2019 would be the year to it but 2018 wouldn't be bad either because the savings would be immediate, although less, to get Doughty resigned before he ever gets a chance to hit free agency.

    Another option - and this has been my hunch the entire time - Gaborik will retire this summer. Too many injuries, getting up there in age, won his Cup, had a nice career both in NA and Europe, nothing else left to gain really.

    If he does that there is $0 cap hit moving forward since he signed his current deal before age 35 and it comes off the books entirely. He's already received a bout 2/3 of the actual cash on this contract and his retirement would help the Kings out big time.

    Regarding the hypothetical: Gaborik could not be bought out by AZ until at least the Trade Deadline in 2019. Any player being bought out has to have been on that team's Reserve List as of the last Trade Deadline.Gabroik would need to be traded this Trade Deadline to be bought out this summer by the Coyotes.

    This prevents teams from trading for a player in June, signing him to a big contract, he sucks balls, and buying him out before the following summer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  19. Stunner_At_Staples_Kings

    Stunner_At_Staples_Kings Giant Member

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    The maddening part about Gaborik is that we've seen his talent and productivity on full display, so it's hard to just write him off entirely. He was even crushing it last year in the World Cup of Hockey before he broke his foot. I never even considered that he could retire, but being a healthy scratch would certainly mean that the writing could be on the wall.

    I guess the Karlsson thing for me was if we lose Doughty, and he could be had a lot cheaper. If we were to lose Doughty, I'd love to see the Kings make a run at the likes of a Tavares or something like that. Blake has been pretty good with contracts thus far (Pearson and Toffoli), so I have some faith he'll do what's best in getting Doughty to sign for terms that don't handcuff the team. Any speculation from you guys on what the asking price/term for a one Drew Doughty would be? Just watching Chicago struggle like no other right now, and they haven't gotten out of the first round since signing Kane and Toews to those monster deals. I don't really know the answer, but it seems hard to win with 30% of your payroll locked up in 2 players.
     
  20. Stunner_At_Staples_Kings

    Stunner_At_Staples_Kings Giant Member

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    Saw this yesterday.

    Montreal Canadiens trade target: Gabriel Vilardi and a Kings ransom

    At this point, I'm pretty much in favor of keeping our youth and rebuilding our minors.

    I hear rumors again about Phaneuf, but I'd hard pass on that. If McDonough of NY could be had for a decent price (Which it doesn't sound like he could), that would be a great addition. With so many teams on the bubble, it's hard to find true sellers right now.