2015 class

[bbwvfan]

I will only respond to the recruiting. Number one, each of the schools you mentioned have IN STATE high school talent about 5000 times better than West Virginia, they recruit that talent agressively, and it becomes a state pride issue. Take a deeper look at their recruits, where they come from, and you will see the kids who stay close to home. Now, tell me how many 4 star and 5 star kids come out of West virginia? How many stay in state? Who was the last Heisman winner from West Virginia? Yes I agree, all of those schools, despite records, recruit and get top talent, and each of those schools have some serious facilities, great educational programs and local down time entertainment? WVU has less than average facilities, great educational programs and for local entertainment they offer couch burning 101, climb Coopers Rock, sled riding down 8th street, a handful of sleezy men's clubs and get drunk night(7 days a week), oh yes, the single largest number of fast food joints. Be honest BB, if you were a kid, and you were a good football player say from Texas, and you were being recruited by Texas and West Virginia, please, be honest, who would you choose? Having been on both campuses, and been in both facilities, and looked at the classrooms, transportation, housing, fun things to do, I tell you who's offer I would accept, Texas, even with my love of West Virginia, we just don't have what it takes yet. We joined the Big 12 without being ready for the jump to big time college football. The fans based it on occasional wins, not understanding a regular diet of upper class college programs was nothing we had to compare it too. We can hope all we want, but we better wake up to some serious deficiencies that will be a terrible mountain to overcome if we continue to lose. Once more, we continue to look forward with blinders, thinking small while being in a very large arena, and for those who think losing is somehow going to entice the top talent, well, I'm sorry, but it has to be too much moonshine in the veins. We have got to find a coach with driving force to not only lay out offensive schemes, but inspire players to greatness, to elevate beyond basic skill. Again, sorry, that man is not Dana Holgerson, and it never was. We need a coach of the caliber of Saban or Meyer. I have no clue if that personality is out there right now, but we need to search, long and hard, balance it not only by points and stats, but the personality and character to be a teacher, to scold equitably, but professionally. I don't mind emotion, But I have complete distain for out of control temper.

Could not agree more with you about facilities and the uphill battle WVU faces recruiting talent.

 

[WVUDAD]

Damn, with our shitty facilities, how do we even field a team??? With such crappy recruits, how did we get to a bowl game all those years, how did we win three big bowls. Sorry it hurts your feelings, but Holgorsen CAN NOT coach. Jim, what the hell, I do not like being called a liar, I have travelled in my work over 35 states for thirty years, and make a point to check out college campuses.

 

[bbwvfan]

THEY have in state kids to recruit, WVU does not have more than 10 in state kids to choose from most years. I find it strange that you said the recruiting rankings meant nothing when 2009 and 2010 classes at WVU were ranked highly. BUT now they are meaningful.........

I said the recruiting rankings from '09 and '10 meant nothing?

I never made a comment like that.

Kentucky has instate kids to fill a recruiting class? Did you take a look at their list of recruits?

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim,

Here is a tweet from Eugene Napoleon today…

Eugene Napoleon ‏@WVU33 2m
"To truly appreciate WVU, you must RESPECT our PAST. If you try to CHANGE everything, you WILL NOT have a perspective on the FUTURE."

 

[WVUDAD]

Jim,

Here is a tweet from Eugene Napoleon today…

No truer words were ever spoken

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim,

Here is a tweet from Eugene Napoleon today…

I do not disagree, but respecting our past, and dwelling on our past with statistics that do not reflect the current program, are two entirely different things. I do respect where we came from, a whole bunch of crappy conferences for which we never experienced much more than limited success. We chose, quite correctly I believe, to step up to the big time, for once out of the shadows into an arena like no place we have ever been. But yet we attempt to hold on to and compare limited success to amazing failure in the quest we desired. Please, someone has to explain to me the reasoning of the AD, and many fans, that we would invest so heavily in this move to the Big 12, and then lay the future of our program in the hands of a man who had zero head coaching experience? Name me one other school in this nation that handed the reins to someone so unqualified at such an important juncture? You know what, I will this one time look back, Could Bill Stewart have done better? I think not. Could Rich Rod have done better? I think not. Could Don Nehlen have done better? I think not. Because not a single one of them before their tenure at WVU had an ounce of experience on THIS LEVEL OF FOOTBALL. Some had that limited success I spoke of in opening, but not a one of them had even in the greatest fantasy, serious success against the stable for which we now reside, the Big 12. So if I am to respect our path, to secure our future, I fire this present whatever you wanna call him head coach. I seek in respecting our past, the ability to NOT make the same mistakes over and over, in who leads the program, to enhance our facilities to give every tool available to whoever that head coach may be, the ability to attract the very top levels of student/athletes, and build a program of enduring respect, on and off the field. I do not lay my hopes for that future in any single man who displays repeatedly the inability to inspire, teach and lead those young men he chose, to rise above their ability, and to fight with integrity for our school, our fans and our state, and who possess the ability to accept, without blame, that he is the failure, not the players, not some lacking of a former head coach, not the lack of some building or equipment, but because he just plain and simple, doesn't know how to captain a ship.

I read with almost a smile your post about the improved statistical numbers for this years offense. May I kindly ask how many wins those improvements gave us? Huh, just 4, outstanding, that's certainly showing the Big 12, we can put up big numbers, we just can't win the games because we have no defense. That sure inspires fear in our opponents, right up to the point even the worst of the conference hands us our collective stats on a platter called LOST.

Nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, from our past can in anyway define our future, because we have no past anywhere close to where we are right now. Southern Conference, pffftttt. Atlantic 10, pffffttttt, Big East, pfffttttttttttted. Respect it, yes I do, I lived most of it, but embrace it for anything more than what we can NEVER go back to, that's all those numbers are good for, black dots on white paper that must of the time, meant losing. I see it as a tool of what NOT to do, not anything of how it should be done. Fire Holgerson, eat the buyout, or sue him for complete failure to attain any of the goals set forth in his hiring and settle out of court for less. Search out a coach of experience in the Big 12 arena, or even any of the Big conferences, who is willing to take a floundering program and right the ship, WITH the talent we have, not built on some false hope of what we could get. Holgerson is not that man, he is not so imbued with the requisite ability to rise to the occassion, and for me, the last two years have done nothing that allows me to embrace him for even one more game, let alone another season of this.

I'm tired, and I'm old. I want so damn much for WVU, I always have, and everytime in that past we are supposed to respect, we have sat on our collective arse's and watched losing, endured chiding and I am sick and tired of that word when speaking of my Mountaineers. I do not hate Dana Holgerson, I loath him. He is the most unqualified head coach WVU has had in recent history. He cannot teach. He is a quitter. No more example of his ability is fresh on my mind just 30+ hours ago. That display does not deserve another chance.

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim,

I think it is inaccurate to say there is no time in WVU's past that compares to today. But, we will leave it at that.

I use stats to support my POV regarding different points generated throughout a thread. When I cited the numbers for this year's offense, it was not to be taken in the context you ascribed. It was not meant to validate this season in any form. Simply to dispute DAD's obsession with Bill Stewart's time as HC… more directly… to compare this year of futility in offensive production to the offensive numbers of Bill's last year as HC. So, maybe you can wipe away the smile…

Please, someone has to explain to me the reasoning of the AD, and many fans, that we would invest so heavily in this move to the Big 12, and then lay the future of our program in the hands of a man who had zero head coaching experience? Name me one other school in this nation that handed the reins to someone so unqualified at such an important juncture?

While you loathe Dana, you may need to rethink your argument for the qualifications required to be HC in the Big 12. Of interest for you, the following list of current HC's in the Big 12 and their coaching position prior to being named the HC of their respective school.

Bob Stoops… HC of OU. Prior to OU, he was the DC for UF
Mike Gundy…. HC of OSU. Prior to being named HC, he was the OC for OSU.
Kliff Kingsbury… HC of TT. Prior to TT, he was the OC at A&M for 1 season. Co-OC at UH for 2.
Bill Snyder… HC of KSU. Prior to KSU, he was the OC for Iowa.
Paul Rhoades… HC of ISU. Prior to ISU, he was the DC for Pitt.
Gary Patterson… HC of TCU. Prior to being named HC, he was the DC for TCU.

There are currently 3 HC's who had previous HC experience prior to their present position… Art Briles at UH, Charlie Weis at ND, and Mack Brown at UNC.

Dana had been an assistant coach and an OC in the Big 12 for 8 years of his professional life. In each of his previous stops as an OC, his offenses showed marked improvement. He was brought to WVU to be its HC in waiting. In 2010, WVU was in the BE, and there was no indication at the time of his hire that WVU would be leaving the BE. In fact, there was speculation the Big 12 was breaking up as Colorado and Nebraska had chosen to leave… and Texas, A&M, OU and OSU were in talks with the Pac 12. In fact, some of the leftover schools… KU, KSU and ISU were talking to the BE about membership.

So… please stop with your rant regarding Luck's ill timing when giving the reigns of the football program to someone not ready for the rigors of Big 12 competition.

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim,

I think it is inaccurate to say there is no time in WVU's past that compares to today. But, we will leave it at that.

I use stats to support my POV regarding different points generated throughout a thread. When I cited the numbers for this year's offense, it was not to be taken in the context you ascribed. It was not meant to validate this season in any form. Simply to dispute DAD's obsession with Bill Stewart's time as HC… more directly… to compare this year of futility in offensive production to the offensive numbers of Bill's last year as HC. So, maybe you can wipe away the smile…



While you loathe Dana, you may need to rethink your argument for the qualifications required to be HC in the Big 12. Of interest for you, the following list of current HC's in the Big 12 and their coaching position prior to being named the HC of their respective school.

Bob Stoops… HC of OU. Prior to OU, he was the DC for UF
Mike Gundy…. HC of OSU. Prior to being named HC, he was the OC for OSU.
Kliff Kingsbury… HC of TT. Prior to TT, he was the OC at A&M for 1 season. Co-OC at UH for 2.
Bill Snyder… HC of KSU. Prior to KSU, he was the OC for Iowa.
Paul Rhoades… HC of ISU. Prior to ISU, he was the DC for Pitt.
Gary Patterson… HC of TCU. Prior to being named HC, he was the DC for TCU.

There are currently 3 HC's who had previous HC experience prior to their present position… Art Briles at UH, Charlie Weis at ND, and Mack Brown at UNC.

Dana had been an assistant coach and an OC in the Big 12 for 8 years of his professional life. In each of his previous stops as an OC, his offenses showed marked improvement. He was brought to WVU to be its HC in waiting. In 2010, WVU was in the BE, and there was no indication at the time of his hire that WVU would be leaving the BE. In fact, there was speculation the Big 12 was breaking up as Colorado and Nebraska had chosen to leave… and Texas, A&M, OU and OSU were in talks with the Pac 12. In fact, some of the leftover schools… KU, KSU and ISU were talking to the BE about membership.

So… please stop with your rant regarding Luck's ill timing when giving the reigns of the football program to someone not ready for the rigors of Big 12 competition.

No, I will not stop that rant, it means too much to me to sit back and watch us implode. I did that once before in that so called past with which some of you say we must respect. Just as you do now, I gave Cignetti my complete loyalty and trust, so my respect of that ill famed time in WVU's past, does not allow, and cannot allow me a sit still and watch this all over again, without attempting to call for some reasonable examination of just what the hell is going on. Not a single one of those coaches you named above were entering a period of such great change, they could afford by some reasonable analysis to hand over the reins of an established presence in the Big 12 to men who had impeccable well rounded ability AND character. Please BB, name for me in those 8 years of Holgerson's presence in the Big 12, a single National Championship. please. If stats mean so damnable much, then what you are saying is that winning means nothing, or so it appears to be your line of thinking. You show me a National Championship in our past, I will embrace it. You show clear and concise resemblance to anything in our past that aligns us with right now, and includes the complete gravity for what is at stake, then maybe you have a leg to stand on, but my friend, you have no such conclusive evidence, because there has never been any. If and when those improved statistics you put out there, translates to a WINNING program, then, and only then, will I embrace them as undisputed fact. With the rise of our offensive numbers, we witnessed a drop in our defense. Recruiting, or lack there of, is definately a problem, I acknowledge and agree with that fact, but if we were that bad, what in the world were we doing jumping from the damn Big East, to the elite Big 12? Where are we going to be after another season of excuses, another losing season? Not a single one of you give a direct answer, and you know what, I once did the same damn thing, and we all know what that got us, a losing mentality, an acceptance of failure because the powers that were, were too damn afraid to make changes. No matter how any of you slice it, 4 wins and 8 losses for this program is not a good sign, however you choose to cut the numbers. There has been a terrible inconsistency in this program for first two years of our entrance into the Big 12, and year 3 has no white knight in shining armor on the roster, nor on the list of potential recruits to turn this thing around under the leadership of the current head coach. And, if Luck does not see it, then he is walking around with rose colored glasses too.

I can accept losing to a degree, but not when it comes from an across the board failure on the field of play. We came out uninspired in the second half of a game that had little more meaning than some season ending pride, and we got outhit, outscored, outcoached and embarrassed by a historically bottom feeding member of the Big 12, on OUR field. How much more pathetic do you want? So no my friend, I will not stop just for the sake of sitting by watching more of this mayhem. I have given this man as much as I could, in my heart, Dana Holgerson is now the worst head coach in our history, worse than Cignetti, because Cignetti inherited nothing, but he tried his hardest, I can accept that kind of failure. Holgerson did NOT inherit an empty cupboard, three of our stars made the NFL after Holgerson's miserable first year in the Big 12, and certainly not because of Holgerson's coaching, Sims will be drafted because those players all had talent. It's almost hard to imagine where Geno, Tavon and Steadman would have ended up if only they had been given a real coach.

It's time BB, maybe even past the time, to reboot this program. It is the only way forward. I know that is not what you want. I know your faith in the program is deep seeded. For I once was just that way, but age has a way of taking off the blinders of loyalty simply for loyalties sake. Far too often, such loyalty is shit upon b those very men we so chose to be loyal too! My friend, that is exactly what is happening here, right now, and that is a repeat from our history that says clearly, we did not learn a thing, and therefore our respect of our past, has led to another series of poor choices that will not help us gain a single perspective of our future. Wanting the best and settling for the worst does no good, never has, never will. I will never fully embrace losing the way this season presented us with losing, never, because that's giving in, a direct example of our team this past season.

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim,

You really need to stop the rant about turning over the WVU program to one unqualified for the Big 12. When Dana was given his job, there was no Big 12 on the horizon.

You cannot speak from knowledge about any of the other HC's of the Big 12 in terms of morality or any other issue you raise. There is no way to know of any of these men's character. Stoops has had major NCAA violations occur under his watch. Gundy's program had a huge expose written by SI about his program. Let's get real here.

How many NC's was Gundy apart of? Bill Snyder? Outside of Stoops, none of the current HC's in the Big 12 were part of NC staffs.

Dana's recruiting efforts have been better than any of his predecessors. I provided the rankings from Scout in this thread.

We came out in the 2nd half of last night's game and marched right down to the end zone on our 2nd possession. However, a young RB tried to extend the ball over the goal line, and a fumble ensued to erase a sure TD which would have made the score 38-14. Please don't exaggerate the truth to justify your POV.

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim,

You really need to stop the rant about turning over the WVU program to one unqualified for the Big 12. When Dana was given his job, there was no Big 12 on the horizon.

You cannot speak from knowledge about any of the other HC's of the Big 12 in terms of morality or any other issue you raise. There is no way to know of any of these men's character. Stoops has had major NCAA violations occur under his watch. Gundy's program had a huge expose written by SI about his program. Let's get real here.

How many NC's was Gundy apart of? Bill Snyder? Outside of Stoops, none of the current HC's in the Big 12 were part of NC staffs.

Dana's recruiting efforts have been better than any of his predecessors. I provided the rankings from Scout in this thread.

We came out in the 2nd half of last night's game and marched right down to the end zone on our 2nd possession. However, a young RB tried to extend the ball over the goal line, and a fumble ensued to erase a sure TD which would have made the score 38-14. Please don't exaggerate the truth to justify your POV.

I bow to the wisdom of stupidity. That is our past and it sure as hell will be our future. We somehow choose the worst possible path at every important juncture of this program and we live on some glorious hope of stats as our foundation of growth. Well you know what, fuck this program, I make my stand now, there will be no endowment to this program upon my death, there will be no further support for the idiocy of the administration. Hell, I'm not needed anyways, the MAC has done nothing but waste my donations for my entire life.

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim,


It is not my intent for you to get so emotional about this.


As I have said many times, you, Dad and others may be completely right about Dana.


I am simply attempting to point out a couple of facts to you regarding the timing of Dana's hire. You keep ranting about Luck's mistake in hiring a HC not equipped for the Big 12... when it is completely wrong. He was hired while WVU was a BE member... plain and simple truth.

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim,


It is not my intent for you to get so emotional about this.


As I have said many times, you, Dad and others may be completely right about Dana.


I am simply attempting to point out a couple of facts to you regarding the timing of Dana's hire. You keep ranting about Luck's mistake in hiring a HC not equipped for the Big 12... when it is completely wrong. He was hired while WVU was a BE member... plain and simple truth.

Sorry BB, but your opinions of this program elicit nothing but the acceptance of failure, because your facts show no discernable results on the field, they are meaningless when the losing continues to mount game after game. Go down to Marshall and help them embrace losing, they have gotten real good at it, and I am sure they will embrace you for your statistical false hope you sow for WVU. I have seriously had enough of this stuff, it is the purest form of blind faith, and it is Mountaineer history, as given by another post, I quote, " a 4 win season was a good season if one of those wins was against Pitt", that is a total acceptance of a losing program, and it is why we will continue this course of failures. We don't want winning. Good luck Mountaineers, and go fuck yourselves.

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim,


When I have provided you facts, was it tied to any connection to W/L records?


Sorry, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me.


There is nothing I can do about whether my favorite teams wins or loses. I can only support their effort.


When WVU's basketball program switched from the A10 where it dominated... to the BE, it took quite some time to see WVU consistently compete in its new conference. Did Gale forget how to coach when he lead his team into the BE?


I know... you don't like history or looking back to the past...

 

[mad2mc]

Man - I hope I never get all twisted about WVU sports. Some of these fan base is back to thinking like they did when RR left. When did WVU become so relevant that a BIG NAME coach was going to come in here and take us to a NC? Name those BIG NAME coaches that had us on their short list. ZERO!!!! 3 coaches over the last 10 years and a move to a better conference but some of those want to change coaches again. Yea and I'm the idiot. BTW, loathe and hate are synonymous.

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim,


When I have provided you facts, was it tied to any connection to W/L records?


Sorry, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me.


There is nothing I can do about whether my favorite teams wins or loses. I can only support their effort.


When WVU's basketball program switched from the A10 where it dominated... to the BE, it took quite some time to see WVU consistently compete in its new conference. Did Gale forget how to coach when he lead his team into the BE?


I know... you don't like history or looking back to the past...

Another of the learned tactics of false hope prophets, when you run into the wall on your idiocy, you switch course to basketball. My total posts here have nothing to do with basketball, it is entirely about the football program, which was never a part of the Atlantic 10. If my memory serves me correctly, after leaving the SC, we were a football independent until around 1980 when we joined the Big East under Don Nehlen. Now I could be wrong on the dates, but I know I felt then that aligning WVU football fortunes within a conference was indeed a great move. That we became somewhat of a power within the Big East, was very pleasing, but I saw the writing on the wall about the Big East when the defections began across the board.
, and as we know now, the Big East was doomed, long before it ended, because of a failure to embrace the future of college football and the emerging super conferences. I cannot believe that you buy the lie about Holgerson being hired without the knowledge of the athletic administration, that is pure idiocy. There was quiet talk about a new conference alignment within alumni groups in Stewart's second season, there was a complete dis-satisfaction with how WVU was being treated by the Big East administrators, which in my opinion, led to some serious questions in on field matters(officiating). Those things continued right up to the moment we aligned with the Big 12. To think the Big 12 move was something that came about in a year is pure folly, another of our historical shortsightedness among the WVU faithful. The Pastilong cronies were super liars, and they mis-led by deception and stealth. Bill Stewart attempted to follow that line right up to the end, and it got him fired. We were so disposed to his error of judgment, that we failed to look deeply at the decisions of the new AD leadership. He was making some very excellent choices(the Big 12 being his best highlight among other things, Tier I and II rights also) to increase the flow of monies to improve the program. Dana Holgerson was hired as the head coach in waiting because the AD KNEW we would be heading to the Big 12, those negotiations were going on under cover long before Mountaineers fans became aware. Pastilong and Stewart attempted to hold the line, the lies and deception caught up with them both, and the real power in WVU sports, the high dollar contributors, took control and fired them both. The face in Holgerson WAS mis-placed, and I am not speaking of a single personal character issue, those have no bearing on the current state of this program. In a winning scenario, other than his ability to construct high output offensives(that were eventually defensed by Big 12 opponents), he never contributed anything to the overall health and winning of any of the programs he so served. People liked him because his offenses scored points, but there was never any actual sustaining to winning, few conference titles, and no National Championships, just a hint of knowing the internal workings of the Big 12, that WAS his selling point to WVU. I loath the lies of Leach in selling Holgerson to our leadership, because he knew it wasn't there, and that it would have to be learned at some great expense to winning. What better place to send him off to than none other that WVU, a program that couldn't match up, week in and week out, with even the weakest of the Big 12 fold. ou were sold a false set of goods BB, we all were. Now can I say that he can't learn? No, but of all the coaches who came from coordinator positions to head coaches, they were knee deep in operations, they recruited heavily within the Big 12 zone, both offense and defense. That cannot be said of Holgerson, his recruiting duties for the time he served(8 years) was for Quarterbacks, running backs and wide receivers, period. When he came in, he had zero appreciable knowledge of defense(oh how well that has shown the last two years). His entire success has been built on offenses who could outscore their opponents, not stop them, and as proven at Houston, TT and OSU, once the defensive coordinators figured it out, he lost, sometimes miserably. He has never been able to admit that he could be outclassed, out coached. As far back as Houston, he always blamed the intelligence of the players around him, their failure to lead, when it was plainly obvious to even the most novice of fan, that his plays had been figured out. Defend him at your peril because he is an idiot attempting to be head coach. In the business world, we classified people like Dana Holgerson with the "peter principle", that being an individual raised to a level above his competence. Dana Holgerson is incompetent to be a head coach, and nothing of the last 25 games has proven otherwise, and their is no stat to prove that a record of 19 wins(which might be wrong) in 3 years is a sign of future success, not when it is balanced with what, 18 losses, some of which reach Mountaineer records of ineptness? No way, those of you hanging on to some false hope are fucked, and you will be until common sense once again walks the halls of the athletic department on the WVU campus, not some statistic of improvement with a losing record the byproduct.

 

[JIMKOON]

Man - I hope I never get all twisted about WVU sports. Some of these fan base is back to thinking like they did when RR left. When did WVU become so relevant that a BIG NAME coach was going to come in here and take us to a NC? Name those BIG NAME coaches that had us on their short list. ZERO!!!! 3 coaches over the last 10 years and a move to a better conference but some of those want to change coaches again. Yea and I'm the idiot. BTW, loathe and hate are synonymous.

Another of the folly group, we never looked for a Big Name coach, so how can you say that none of them would have come? You see, that is the acceptance of failure, oh so what, nobody wants to come here, so who cares. The minute we continue to see ourselves as something less than we can be, we fail. I have never wanted WVU to fail, never, in anything, from educational graduate rates, to it's wide ranging sports programs. If at anytime in our past we have ever had an opportunity to make a statement nationally about WVU sports, it is now, right now, and for as hard as it may be to conceive for some of you, the only way forward is to dismiss this head coach, and find that coach who best fits the goals of winning, not just running up stats and losing. And by the way Loathing is a higher form of hatred. I loathe Dana Holgerson, not for any personal character issue, but because he is a complete package of losing, failed leadership and coaching ability and a child could see it on the field play this past season.

 

[bbwvfan]

Another of the learned tactics of false hope prophets, when you run into the wall on your idiocy, you switch course to basketball. My total posts here have nothing to do with basketball, it is entirely about the football program, which was never a part of the Atlantic 10. If my memory serves me correctly, after leaving the SC, we were a football independent until around 1980 when we joined the Big East under Don Nehlen. Now I could be wrong on the dates, but I know I felt then that aligning WVU football fortunes within a conference was indeed a great move. That we became somewhat of a power within the Big East, was very pleasing, but I saw the writing on the wall about the Big East when the defections began across the board.
, and as we know now, the Big East was doomed, long before it ended, because of a failure to embrace the future of college football and the emerging super conferences. I cannot believe that you buy the lie about Holgerson being hired without the knowledge of the athletic administration, that is pure idiocy. There was quiet talk about a new conference alignment within alumni groups in Stewart's second season, there was a complete dis-satisfaction with how WVU was being treated by the Big East administrators, which in my opinion, led to some serious questions in on field matters(officiating). Those things continued right up to the moment we aligned with the Big 12. To think the Big 12 move was something that came about in a year is pure folly, another of our historical shortsightedness among the WVU faithful. The Pastilong cronies were super liars, and they mis-led by deception and stealth. Bill Stewart attempted to follow that line right up to the end, and it got him fired. We were so disposed to his error of judgment, that we failed to look deeply at the decisions of the new AD leadership. He was making some very excellent choices(the Big 12 being his best highlight among other things, Tier I and II rights also) to increase the flow of monies to improve the program. Dana Holgerson was hired as the head coach in waiting because the AD KNEW we would be heading to the Big 12, those negotiations were going on under cover long before Mountaineers fans became aware. Pastilong and Stewart attempted to hold the line, the lies and deception caught up with them both, and the real power in WVU sports, the high dollar contributors, took control and fired them both. The face in Holgerson WAS mis-placed, and I am not speaking of a single personal character issue, those have no bearing on the current state of this program. In a winning scenario, other than his ability to construct high output offensives(that were eventually defensed by Big 12 opponents), he never contributed anything to the overall health and winning of any of the programs he so served. People liked him because his offenses scored points, but there was never any actual sustaining to winning, few conference titles, and no National Championships, just a hint of knowing the internal workings of the Big 12, that WAS his selling point to WVU. I loath the lies of Leach in selling Holgerson to our leadership, because he knew it wasn't there, and that it would have to be learned at some great expense to winning. What better place to send him off to than none other that WVU, a program that couldn't match up, week in and week out, with even the weakest of the Big 12 fold. ou were sold a false set of goods BB, we all were. Now can I say that he can't learn? No, but of all the coaches who came from coordinator positions to head coaches, they were knee deep in operations, they recruited heavily within the Big 12 zone, both offense and defense. That cannot be said of Holgerson, his recruiting duties for the time he served(8 years) was for Quarterbacks, running backs and wide receivers, period. When he came in, he had zero appreciable knowledge of defense(oh how well that has shown the last two years). His entire success has been built on offenses who could outscore their opponents, not stop them, and as proven at Houston, TT and OSU, once the defensive coordinators figured it out, he lost, sometimes miserably. He has never been able to admit that he could be outclassed, out coached. As far back as Houston, he always blamed the intelligence of the players around him, their failure to lead, when it was plainly obvious to even the most novice of fan, that his plays had been figured out. Defend him at your peril because he is an idiot attempting to be head coach. In the business world, we classified people like Dana Holgerson with the "peter principle", that being an individual raised to a level above his competence. Dana Holgerson is incompetent to be a head coach, and nothing of the last 25 games has proven otherwise, and their is no stat to prove that a record of 19 wins(which might be wrong) in 3 years is a sign of future success, not when it is balanced with what, 18 losses, some of which reach Mountaineer records of ineptness? No way, those of you hanging on to some false hope are fucked, and you will be until common sense once again walks the halls of the athletic department on the WVU campus, not some statistic of improvement with a losing record the byproduct.

I won't take the time to read this. I am done with you...

 

[JIMKOON]

I won't take the time to read this. I am done with you...

Thank you.

 

[mad2mc]

Another of the folly group, we never looked for a Big Name coach, so how can you say that none of them would have come? You see, that is the acceptance of failure, oh so what, nobody wants to come here, so who cares. The minute we continue to see ourselves as something less than we can be, we fail. I have never wanted WVU to fail, never, in anything, from educational graduate rates, to it's wide ranging sports programs. If at anytime in our past we have ever had an opportunity to make a statement nationally about WVU sports, it is now, right now, and for as hard as it may be to conceive for some of you, the only way forward is to dismiss this head coach, and find that coach who best fits the goals of winning, not just running up stats and losing. And by the way Loathing is a higher form of hatred. I loathe Dana Holgerson, not for any personal character issue, but because he is a complete package of losing, failed leadership and coaching ability and a child could see it on the field play this past season.

Jim - in your inner circle, who did you hear wanted to take over the program here that was a Big Name? Who are you blaming for not looking for a BIG NAME - Pastilong or Luck? Big money supporters kind of faded away when RR left and we promoted the special team's coach. Is this your meaning of acceptance of failure? If anything, a BIG NAME HC would have wanted to come to this program when Slaton and White were still a part of it.

You amaze me how you waffle. You admit that we don't have the talent for the Big XII, agree that the facilities need to be improved to attract said talent and then blow a gasket f-ing WVU. Hiring a HC is a crap shoot. You and Poppy may be correct, Dana may not be the man for the position just like Stewart was not the man for the position. By me deciding to see what a few more years brings does not mean that I have accepted failure. I want to see stability and growth. Let's get our feet wet in the Big XII and while we are doing this, see how DH grows (or not grows) into the position. I do not like DH's meltdowns anymore than watching Huggins do the same. What is the difference outside of the sport? One is a seasoned vet at HC, while the other one is attempting to be a HC. When somebody provides you stats, you want to crap all over it because it did not translate to wins this season. While wins are the ultimate yardstick in sports, I am alright with seeing a positive trend in the program that will eventually lead to wins. But in your world, this is accepting failure. Nobody on these boards sees us a being something less than what we can be. We all want to be able to say we won a NC, but you know, sometimes it doesn't work as plan.

So now your being uppity by using the 5 cent version of hate. Impressive.

 

[mad2mc]

I won't take the time to read this. I am done with you...

I know that this shit is longer than War & Peace, but you are doing a service by providing a therapy outlet. He will thank you in the end.