2013 St. Louis Cardinals thread

[Arch City]

Hello, everyone! I am new here. So since other teams have their own threads for the 2013 season, I thought I'd start one here for the Cardinals as well.

The Cardinals are off to another great start and are in possession of first place in the NL Central...for now. Luckily, it looks like Edward Mujica is settling into the closer role after Jason Motte's injury and subsequent surgery. And the offense seems to be coming around overall after a few players suffered from an early season funk, which is encouraging.

But I know better than to ever count out Cincinnati. They're always going to be a factor, and it's interesting to see the rivalry between these teams heat up. Pittsburgh is holding its own as well. It's going to be a long, fun summer watching the NL Central race unfold. What do you think?

And am I the only one here that doesn't hate the Cardinals?

 

[HammerDown]

For some reason we haven't attracted many Cards fans, Arch. Maybe it's the constant spew of hate originating from me and several others?

Why is it Edward Mujica never did much for the Padres but now he's the starter for the NL Central leader?

 

[Arch City]

For some reason we haven't attracted many Cards fans, Arch. Maybe it's the constant spew of hate originating from me and several others?

C'mon, you need to let go of the hate! Seriously, I don't know why there aren't more Cardinals fans here. Clearly, there's no dearth of fan support. I do know that there are a lot of Cardinals-related forums, but that can be said for so many teams. And frankly, I'd rather come to a place like this where everyone may not like the Cardinals. I love the Cardinals and I think the fan base is generally knowledgeable, respectful, and fair. But I figure I can have a much more objective discussion with a much broader base of baseball fans here than I can on the local forums, which seem to attract the homers and the douchebags that beat their wives and curse at the shadows on their walls every time the Cardinals lose. So screw that, I'll take my lumps here instead!

Why is it Edward Mujica never did much for the Padres but now he's the starter for the NL Central leader?

That's a great question. The Cardinals have managed to get great results out of average pitchers over the years. Without wandering too deeply into club history for brevity's sake, I think Kyle Lohse (now with Milwaukee) and Jake Westbrook (still here in STL) are two prime examples. In my opinion, we had a great pitching coach in Dave Duncan throughout the LaRussa era. I believe he would have stuck around after Matheny took over, but his wife was seriously ill, and he wanted to return to their home in southwest Missouri to be there for her.

I don't know much about Mujica's past prior to his time here, but last year he was the seventh inning reliever, or as I like to put it, the setup man for the setup man for the closer. Now with Jason Motte out of commission for the foreseeable future and with Mitchell Boggs in the minors trying to get his groove back, he's the closer by default.

(Actually, I just looked this up: Prior to joining the Cardinals, Mujica piled up four saves in eight seasons. So far this season, he has nine.)

I'm as surprised as you- the difference is that I'm pleasantly surprised!

 

[HammerDown]

I love the Cardinals and I think the fan base is generally knowledgeable, respectful, and fair.

I think most will grant you that.

 

[uncfan103]

I love this idea. I've always wanted to talk about the Cards but for some reason the Cardinals fans don't really use it. Anyway, I really like our rotation hopefully they can maintain their success. The bullpen has been much better recently too.

Also, retiring 40 consecutive batters is insane

 

[mutigers1fan]

I love this idea. I've always wanted to talk about the Cards but for some reason the Cardinals fans don't really use it. Anyway, I really like our rotation hopefully they can maintain their success. The bullpen has been much better recently too.

I was in this same boat.

As far as Mujica goes the difference is that he's a veteran. He's no longer afraid to fail. He's matured and has seen it all. Another factor is that the Cardinals have a very supportive cast of characters. Motte has been around despite the injury to encourage the guys and all those vets help inexperienced players feel their way through new territory. Thats a big part of why Shelby has not only lived up to potential but been even better thus far and other guys have also succeeded in new roles(Chief Mujica as closer, MCarp at 2B, Kozma at SS).

 

[Clayton]

I guess Ill chime in from time to time. Nothing better than Cardinals baseball in the summer.

The starting pitching has been unreal, Wainwright is back to form, the team has one or 2 holes but just a ridiculous amount of depth. Our road record right now is really strong, too.

One reason you probably dont see much activity on here is because I can talk to almost literally anyone about the Cardinals. Finding people that can say something intelligent about the Rams is much more difficult.

 

[HammerDown]

Did you guys ever hear the story of Edward Mujica? Listening to Vin Scully tell the same story 1,000 times I know it by heart. LOL Apparently a Padres scout was in Mazatlan on vacation and went to a local semi-pro game down there and signed Mujica on the spot. Next thing you know, they run him thru their system and he's in the Bigs. Nice, huh?

He was very good for us one year when he Gregerson was a 7th inning man with a sub-1 ERA and a filthy freakin slider, Mike Adams as a lock-down setup man and Heath Bell was our lights out closer. Mujica would come on for long relief and give the 7th and 8th inning men a night off every now and then or 9th if it was a blowout. He ate innings for us very, very effectively.

 

[BigDDude]

It was 25 years ago today that the Cardinals played one of the more unusual games in their long, storied history. Check the link below for the details and particulars.

25th anniversary: The Jose Oquendo Game

 

[mutigers1fan]

Birds are 24-10 in their last 34 games. I'm loving what I've seen so far for the most part!

 

[Clayton]

I wish we were in the AL just so we could field a DH. Its unreal how deep the Cardinals are right now

 

[mutigers1fan]

I wish we were in the AL just so we could field a DH. Its unreal how deep the Cardinals are right now

Nah, I'd rather keep playing baseball.

 

[HammerDown]

Good writeup on MLBTradeRumors.com about Mujica in free agency next year. He's gonna get paid.

Free Agent Stock Watch: Edward Mujica: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

[Arch City]

It's great to see some Cardinals fans checking in here again. I hoped I'd find some after HammerDown invited me to join SH. Clayton has a point- I think it's easy enough to find people to talk about the Cardinals just about anywhere- hence the low activity on this forum. (Well, until now! I don't know how often I can check in here, but I look forward to discussing the Cardinals this summer.)

HammerDown, I agree, Mujica is well-poised for free agency next year. The question is, should the Cardinals keep him, and if that answer is 'yes', then can they afford to do so? The savings realized by telling Albert Pujols 'adios' have allowed Cardinals management to pick up Carlos Beltran for a couple of seasons and to lock in Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright into long-term contracts. The Cardinals also have the luxury of a talent-rich farm system which relieves payroll pressure a bit, at least for now. And there's no reason to believe payroll will shift significantly one way or the other next year. So...

I guess what remains to be seen is whether Mujica sustain his early success as a closer throughout the season, especially now that Jason Motte is done for the year and since Mitchell Boggs and Trevor Rosenthal weren't cut out for the closer role? Perhaps it's the Pollyanna or the Budweiser in me talking, but I think he can do this. I agree with mutigers1fan- Mujica is enjoying success because he's no longer afraid of failure, and he's got a great supporting cast as well. Motte is still a steady presence in the bullpen even though he's not pitching, just as Chris Carpenter is for the starters this season, and just as Adam Wainwright was in the clubhouse when he was shut down in 2011.

Also, the continued development of Memphis Redbirds like Kolten Wong and Oscar Taveras, among others, is really going to shape how the Cardinals approach free agency after this season. There are some big decisions to make, no doubt. But for now, at least, the emergence of Edward Mujica as a solid closer is quite the pleasant surprise in my opinion!

 

[Clayton]

Beltran's 2 year deal will be done with at the end of the year, IIRC, and I think he is as good as gone because we need to bring Taveras up. Apparently he has been on a tear for the past month and he is going to be difficult to keep out of the lineup this year.

2014 lineup could be something like:

Carpenter/Wong 2B
Tavares/Jay CF
Holliday LF
Craig/Jay RF
Molina C
Adams/Craig 1B
Freese/Carpenter 3B
Kozma SS
P

Thats a heck of a lineup, imo, even without Beltran going forward

 

[mutigers1fan]

Let me start with the locks:
C: Yadi
SS: Kozma(lock as in he's not going to move around)
LF: Holiday

My preference at 2B/3B would be Wong at 2B and MCarp at 3B. I'm not high on Freeze and think his career has peaked.

That leaves 2 choices for the other 3 spots. Adams 1B, Craig RF Oscar CF is one. The other is Craig 1B, Oscar RF, Jay CF. While I don't know what the opening day lineup would be I still think there's an excellent chance we could see both with regular frequency.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

I think a major reason that most people dont like the Cardinals is because the teams that they root for go out and spend a ton of money to get established veteran players on their teams, and the Cards just bring the next man up from the farm.

Look at this year's team inparticular. Holiday, Beltran, Westbrook, Choate, Wigginton are not from the Cards' farm system. Molina, Adams, Craig, Freese, Carpenter, Kozma, Jay, Miller, Garcia, Lynn, Descalso, Gast, Robinson, Rosenthal, Boggs, Motte, Martinez, Maness, Salas...all have been playing ball together since minors. A case could be made for Wainwright also, cause he was a minor leaguer with the braves before he came up to the bigs with STL.

Oh yea, and we still have 2-3 players in triple A right now that could be considered 'ready' if we need them.

Dont confuse jealousy with hate. A lot of jealous fans of other teams out there.

 

[mutigers1fan]

Smoking Monkey, I think you have some very valid points. I never realized STL vs KC was really much of a thing until I moved to central Missouri. Man they hate us. KC has a serious inferiority complex. Mention Pappy's Smokehouse and they get all defensive about KC BBQ(which isn't half of Memphis BBQ). I think the biggest source of jealousy is our standards. Cards fans have high standards. For most 81-81 isn't bad but by our standards its awful. People hate to see that.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

here is what I am hearing about Wacha, and why Johnny Mo isnt bringing him up to fill in for Garcia's next start:

wacha is still getting used to being in a 5-man rotation, and they don't want to waste his 1st trip up to the majors for 1-2 spot starts.

Not sure if I fully understand/believe that the 5man rotation excuse is legit. But I do understand not rushing a young SP into the majors. Unless the Cards were in a dire need, I say let the youth develop and get comfortable before coming to the parent club.

Unfortunately for Mo, Wacha has been tearing up tripleA, so all of the fans want him to get the start for Garcia. Especially after they already brought up Gast to fill in for westbrook.

 

[Clayton]

Smoking Monkey, I think you have some very valid points. I never realized STL vs KC was really much of a thing until I moved to central Missouri. Man they hate us. KC has a serious inferiority complex. Mention Pappy's Smokehouse and they get all defensive about KC BBQ(which isn't half of Memphis BBQ). I think the biggest source of jealousy is our standards. Cards fans have high standards. For most 81-81 isn't bad but by our standards its awful. People hate to see that.

The high standards come with everything but I dont think its too bad.

Ive been to Beale St a couple of times and while the food was good, it didnt jump out at me as being significantly better than STL. I can say that St Louis has the best food in Missouri hands down. Columbia has the best hangover food. Kansas City has the best bars.