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1998 vs. 2009 Vikings teams - How did they stack up against each other?

GhostOfPoverty

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Generally speaking, most people I've heard talk about all-time great Vikings teams state 1998 as the GOAT Vikings team that simply shit the bed in the NFC title game against the Falcons. I tend to agree with this sentiment, as a 15-1 team with several blowout wins and the GOAT offense of the time speaks for itself. That said, I think a lot of people underestimate the 2009 team.

1998 was obviously a magical season. They had arguably the greatest offense of all time when considering the passing/offense friendly rules for the 2007 Patriots and 2013 Broncos compared to 90's rules. The defense was solidly middle of the pack in terms of the league, which made them almost impossible to beat when the offense was on their game - ie, the D wasn't great, but didn't lose any games that the offense lit it up in.

2009 saw Brett Favre's best statistical year of his career, coupled with a top 10 GOAT (minimum) RB in AP, several other substantial contributors on offense for that year (Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice, Matt Birk, Steve Huthinson, Chester Taylor, etc), and an above average defense that was easily better than the '98 defense. The 2009 D was a unit that could do a lot more to salvage shitty games by the offense, on average anyway.

6/10 times, I'd say the 1998 team beats 2009 head to head. But I think the "magic" of the 2009 team is underrated by most. The 2009 team only had 1 clear bad loss against Arizona that year, with their 3 other losses being extremely close, and even BS due to dogshit officiating in their game against Pittsburg. They were arguably a team that *should have* gone 15-1 like '98 did, but I'll blame the extra losses primarily on Chilly, who was even better at shitting the bed than Dennis Green.




Cliffs:

- If both teams played at their absolute best, I think the 2009 team easily hangs with the 1998 team due to the superior 2009 defense allowing Favre/AD/Sidney Rice and co. to keep up with the insane offense of 1998.
 

Nosferatu

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I think if both teams were firing on all cylinders 1998 wins by 2 TD's

The defense in 2009 actually wasn't better.

OFF & DEF pts per game
29.4 & 19.5 : 2009

34.8 & 18.5 : 1998


Moss, Carter, Reed >>> Rice, Harvin, Berrian is the landslide of all landslides
 

GhostOfPoverty

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Disageed with the PPG logic. Even though the 2009 D gave up 1ppg more than 1998, you need to consider the impact of the offenses on their production. The 1998 offense outscored the 2009 offense by 5.4ppg - give the 2009 defense that same offensive production, and they would easily top the 1998 D by giving up 3-4ppg less.

Considering it on a player by player basis, who was especially memorable for each team? 1998 DEF - John Randle, Robert Griffith, Ed McDaniel (to an extent). Everyone else was pretty forgetable on that D.2009 DEF - Jared Allen, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, E.J. Henderson, Chad Greenway, Ben Leber (to a lesser extent). I am definitely taking this group over 1998's D.

I'll give you that the 1998 WR's were way better in 2009, (I honestly don't think there's ever been a better trio than that group in NFL history), but Favre >>> Cunningham/Brad Johnson, AD/Chester Taylor >>>>> Robert Smith/Leory Hoard, Kelinsasser/Shincoe/1998 TE's. The 1998 O line was easily better than 2009.

If both teams were playing their best game on both sides of the ball, then while the 1998 offense might light the 2009 D up pretty badly, that also means that a top game from prime AD has him single handedly destroying their D for upwards of 200+ yards rushing and 2-ish TD's.
Couple on an fire AD with a great performance by Favre and the rest of the 2009 offense, and I think they'd put up 35+ points against the 1998 D. The '98 offense certainly had the firepower to overcome that, but it is far from a guarantee that they would have unless the D they were facing sucked, which the 2009 Vikes one did not. Let's not forget that not one, but two teams beat the 1998 Vikes while scoring less than 30pts, and both of those teams were easily inferior to the 2009 Vikings, so absolutely I think 2009 can hang.
 

Nosferatu

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Disageed with the PPG logic. Even though the 2009 D gave up 1ppg more than 1998, you need to consider the impact of the offenses on their production. The 1998 offense outscored the 2009 offense by 5.4ppg - give the 2009 defense that same offensive production, and they would easily top the 1998 D by giving up 3-4ppg less.

Considering it on a player by player basis, who was especially memorable for each team? 1998 DEF - John Randle, Robert Griffith, Ed McDaniel (to an extent). Everyone else was pretty forgetable on that D.2009 DEF - Jared Allen, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, E.J. Henderson, Chad Greenway, Ben Leber (to a lesser extent). I am definitely taking this group over 1998's D.

I'll give you that the 1998 WR's were way better in 2009, (I honestly don't think there's ever been a better trio than that group in NFL history), but Favre >>> Cunningham/Brad Johnson, AD/Chester Taylor >>>>> Robert Smith/Leory Hoard, Kelinsasser/Shincoe/1998 TE's. The 1998 O line was easily better than 2009.

If both teams were playing their best game on both sides of the ball, then while the 1998 offense might light the 2009 D up pretty badly, that also means that a top game from prime AD has him single handedly destroying their D for upwards of 200+ yards rushing and 2-ish TD's.
Couple on an fire AD with a great performance by Favre and the rest of the 2009 offense, and I think they'd put up 35+ points against the 1998 D. The '98 offense certainly had the firepower to overcome that, but it is far from a guarantee that they would have unless the D they were facing sucked, which the 2009 Vikes one did not. Let's not forget that not one, but two teams beat the 1998 Vikes while scoring less than 30pts, and both of those teams were easily inferior to the 2009 Vikings, so absolutely I think 2009 can hang.


I respectfully disagree!

Favre > Cunningham is complete bullshit.

AD > Robert Smith yeah ok but who cares when its Moss, Carter, Reed vs Rice, Berrian, Harvin, that alone slam dunks it for 98, two TD's and it could be 3 but the 09 team scores a garbage time TD.
 

Nosferatu

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Also did you just mention Ben Leber? lmfao! I guess then we should mention Dwayne Rudd, Orlando Thomas, Corey Fuller and Derrick Alexander!

The 98 team scored at least 24 points in every single game, cant say that for 09

The 98 team allowed 20+ points 8 times the 09 team allowed 20+ points 9 times

Everything about 98 was better! They were a team of destiny, Denny Green FUCKING sucks!!!
 

GhostOfPoverty

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I respectfully disagree!

Favre > Cunningham is complete bullshit.

AD > Robert Smith yeah ok but who cares when its Moss, Carter, Reed vs Rice, Berrian, Harvin, that alone slam dunks it for 98, two TD's and it could be 3 but the 09 team scores a garbage time TD.

Fair enough points in all your posts ITT, but I'm really not sure how you'd say calling Favre better than Cunningham is bullshit. Favre has Cunningham firmly beat in terms of passing statistics for his career, and very similar stats in 2009 compared to 1998 Cunningham.

Favre Career: 508 TD/336 INT, 71,838 yards, 62.0 Comp %
Farve 2009: 33 TD/7 INT, 4,202 yards, 68.4 Comp %

Cunningham Career: 207 TD/134 INT, 29,979 yards, 56.6 Comp%
Cunningham 1998 : 34 TD/10 INT, 3,704 yards, 60.9 Comp %

So if you're talking about their careers, Cunningham barely deserves to carry Favre's jock strap as a QB. The only thing Cunningham was better at is rushing, but that doesn't make up for significantly inferior passing stats to Favre, plus Cunningham's rushing days were over by the time he was a Viking. Favre played 4 more seasons, but he literally has over 300 more TD's than Cunningham threw in his 16 seasons, lol.

I If you're talking '09 Favre vs. '98 Cunningham, Favre has him firmly beat in each passing category except for having 1 less passing TD. Granted Favre played in all 16 games, but Cunningham still played in 15 and started 14 in '98, so he didn't get significantly less playing time than Favre.

Furthermore, as you mentioned, Cunningham had a FAR better receiving corps in '98 with Moss/Carter/Reed than Favre did in '09 with S. Rice/Harvin/Berrian, so it would be a pretty big stretch to say that '98 Cunningham was better than '09 Favre when he had vastly superior receiving threats and a far better O-line to protect him than Favre did.
 
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Nosferatu

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Fair enough points in all your posts ITT, but I'm really not sure how you'd say calling Favre better than Cunningham is bullshit. Favre has Cunningham firmly beat in terms of passing statistics for his career, and very similar stats in 2009 compared to 1998 Cunningham.

Favre Career: 508 TD/336 INT, 71,838 yards, 62.0 Comp %
Farve 2009: 33 TD/7 INT, 4,202 yards, 68.4 Comp %

Cunningham Career: 207 TD/134 INT, 29,979 yards, 56.6 Comp%
Cunningham 1998 : 34 TD/10 INT, 3,704 yards, 60.9 Comp %

So if you're talking about their careers, Favre is literally twice the QB Cunningham was. The only thing Cunningham was better at is rushing, but that doesn't make up for significantly inferior passing stats to Favre, plus Cunningham's rushing days were over by the time he was a Viking. Favre played 4 more seasons, but he literally has over 300 more TD's than Cunningham threw in his 16 seasons, lol.

I If you're talking '09 Favre vs. '98 Cunningham, Favre has him firmly beat in each passing category except for having 1 less passing TD. Granted Favre played in all 16 games, but Cunningham still played in 15 and started 14 in '98, so he didn't get significantly less playing time than Favre.

Furthermore, as you mentioned, Cunningham had a FAR better receiving corps in '98 with Moss/Carter/Reed than Favre did in '09 with S. Rice/Harvin/Berrian, so it would be a pretty big stretch to say that '98 Cunningham was better than '09 Favre when he had vastly superior receiving threats and a far better O-line to protect him than Favre did.



Love ya man but I watched every game both seasons 1998 Cunningham > 2009 Favre
 

GhostOfPoverty

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Love ya man but I watched every game both seasons 1998 Cunningham > 2009 Favre


I am profoundly bitter about the failures of both of the teams in question.

Denny Green and Chilly aka "Bald Monkey" can duke it out for who had the worst ways to shit the bed in playoff games. Perhaps we can agree on that much.s

My favorite moment between their Vikings failures was the booming "FIRE... CHILLY!!!!" chants that thundered through the Metrodome in the game against Arizona following Chilly's cutting of Randy Moss. I remember those chants briefly being loud enough to rival how loud fans should be for a conference title game, and the look on Chilly's face was unforgetable.

Yes off topic, but I figure it's never a bad thing to laugh at one of those shithead's expense in terms of how they fucked up our title aspirations.
 

Ojb81

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98 team without a doubt.. you guys wouldve beat Denver in that superbowl, I'm sure of it
 

Win TWINS!!!

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I think if both teams were firing on all cylinders 1998 wins by 2 TD's

The defense in 2009 actually wasn't better.

OFF & DEF pts per game
29.4 & 19.5 : 2009

34.8 & 18.5 : 1998


Moss, Carter, Reed >>> Rice, Harvin, Berrian is the landslide of all landslides

Disageed with the PPG logic. Even though the 2009 D gave up 1ppg more than 1998, you need to consider the impact of the offenses on their production. The 1998 offense outscored the 2009 offense by 5.4ppg - give the 2009 defense that same offensive production, and they would easily top the 1998 D by giving up 3-4ppg less.

Considering it on a player by player basis, who was especially memorable for each team? 1998 DEF - John Randle, Robert Griffith, Ed McDaniel (to an extent). Everyone else was pretty forgetable on that D.2009 DEF - Jared Allen, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, E.J. Henderson, Chad Greenway, Ben Leber (to a lesser extent). I am definitely taking this group over 1998's D.

I'll give you that the 1998 WR's were way better in 2009, (I honestly don't think there's ever been a better trio than that group in NFL history), but Favre >>> Cunningham/Brad Johnson, AD/Chester Taylor >>>>> Robert Smith/Leory Hoard, Kelinsasser/Shincoe/1998 TE's. The 1998 O line was easily better than 2009.

If both teams were playing their best game on both sides of the ball, then while the 1998 offense might light the 2009 D up pretty badly, that also means that a top game from prime AD has him single handedly destroying their D for upwards of 200+ yards rushing and 2-ish TD's.
Couple on an fire AD with a great performance by Favre and the rest of the 2009 offense, and I think they'd put up 35+ points against the 1998 D. The '98 offense certainly had the firepower to overcome that, but it is far from a guarantee that they would have unless the D they were facing sucked, which the 2009 Vikes one did not. Let's not forget that not one, but two teams beat the 1998 Vikes while scoring less than 30pts, and both of those teams were easily inferior to the 2009 Vikings, so absolutely I think 2009 can hang.

I respectfully disagree!

Favre > Cunningham is complete bullshit.

AD > Robert Smith yeah ok but who cares when its Moss, Carter, Reed vs Rice, Berrian, Harvin, that alone slam dunks it for 98, two TD's and it could be 3 but the 09 team scores a garbage time TD.

W/O looking up time of possession, that 1998 team scored considerably quicker, while also turning the ball over more, giving the opposing teams more opportunities. That 1998 defense was no slouch.
 

Nosferatu

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W/O looking up time of possession, that 1998 team scored considerably quicker, while also turning the ball over more, giving the opposing teams more opportunities. That 1998 defense was no slouch.


In 1998 the Vikes were 3rd in the league in drives against resulting in scores with 25.1% meaning 25.1% of the time the other team scored when they had the ball.

In 2009 the Vikes were 9th in the league with the opposing team scoring points on 28.2% of their drives.

In 1998 the Vikes were 19th against the pass and 11th against the run. 13th in total yards against.

In 2009 the Vikes were 19th against the pass and 2nd against the run. 6th in total yards against.

The 1998 Vikings allowed 178 more yards than did the 2009 Vikings.

The 1998 Vikings were 13th in TOP with 29:58 per game

The 2009 Vikings were 4th in TOP with 32:51 per game.

The 1998 Vikings were a +14 in TO differential.

The 2009 Vikings were a +6 in TO differential.
 

Win TWINS!!!

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In 1998 the Vikes were 3rd in the league in drives against resulting in scores with 25.1% meaning 25.1% of the time the other team scored when they had the ball.

In 2009 the Vikes were 9th in the league with the opposing team scoring points on 28.2% of their drives.

In 1998 the Vikes were 19th against the pass and 11th against the run. 13th in total yards against.

In 2009 the Vikes were 19th against the pass and 2nd against the run. 6th in total yards against.

The 1998 Vikings allowed 178 more yards than did the 2009 Vikings.

The 1998 Vikings were 13th in TOP with 29:58 per game

The 2009 Vikings were 4th in TOP with 32:51 per game.

The 1998 Vikings were a +14 in TO differential.

The 2009 Vikings were a +6 in TO differential.

:scratch:

I thought I said w/o looking up.... so are you agreeing with me?!?!

:suds:
 

Nosferatu

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The 1998 Vikings are the best team in the history of the franchise... With all due respect to the late 60's through mid 70's teams...

If they play Atlanta 10 times Atlanta wins 1 and unfortunately for us that's the 1 of 10 that happened...
 

GhostOfPoverty

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The 1998 Vikings are the best team in the history of the franchise... With all due respect to the late 60's through mid 70's teams...

If they play Atlanta 10 times Atlanta wins 1 and unfortunately for us that's the 1 of 10 that happened...

I hate to say it, but as long as they had Dennis Green running the show, I think they'd lose more like 9/10 times to the Falcons in that NFC title game. Hell, it wouldn't have mattered who the opposing team was, Dennis was the king of finding ways to let the team take a huge dump and choke in epic fashion during all his biggest games as a coach. Aside from that, I agree, lol.
 

Nosferatu

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I hate to say it, but as long as they had Dennis Green running the show, I think they'd lose more like 9/10 times to the Falcons in that NFC title game. Hell, it wouldn't have mattered who the opposing team was, Dennis was the king of finding ways to let the team take a huge dump and choke in epic fashion during all his biggest games as a coach. Aside from that, I agree, lol.



Holy shit, at first I thought you were a fucking punk kid who didnt know shit, but you have changed my opinion of you, anyone who knows Denny Green was a fucking joke is ok in my book!!!
 

GhostOfPoverty

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Holy shit, at first I thought you were a fucking punk kid who didnt know shit, but you have changed my opinion of you, anyone who knows Denny Green was a fucking joke is ok in my book!!!


Haha, I'm not a kid, but I'll fully admit you have endured a lot more Vikings history firsthand than I have.

A brief history of my fanhood of this team - raised a Vikes fan, started following them in '95 at 7 years old when a cop randomly gave a neighborhood friend of mine and me some training camp promo cards.

Became a full-on Vikes fan in '98 for obvious reasons. My Father played a large role in my interest in football/the Vikes. I was 10 at the time, and our small market Minnesota Vikings were the envy of the league. Felt like a million bucks bs'ing with other kids at school about how we were clearly destined to win the title. None
of us had anything to say, just utter disbelief. Our Dream Team video game stats Vikes had found a way to blow it (Green).

Then 2000's shutout vs. New York. A joke, but the season didn't have the magic of '98. Then came 2009, when we had starved for years for a QB to finish the job - I was at a huge concert in Minneapolis for band from Chicago, and first heard about Favre's plane landing live there with them wishing us to whoop Packer ass on behalf of Chicago.

So yeah, I had a lot more emotionally invested in the 2009 team. In all reality, playing their absolute best football, I'd say the 1998 Vikes are a contender for the GOAT NFL team.
 

richig07

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I think if the Bears don't upset the Vikings in Week 16 at Soldier Field in 2009, and they get home-field in the dome. The Vikings win the NFC title game, no doubt in my mind and then have a hell of a chance at beating Peyton/Indy as well.

Also, playing the "close games loss" thing is really silly to say they could have been 15-1 dude. They also WON close games. They won on basically a hail mary from Favre vs SF, for crying out loud. They also came back from 17 down in the 4th vs Chicago, just to force OT. That would have also been a steal of a win, had they won.

98 team was far more dominant.
 

richig07

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The 1998 Vikings are the best team in the history of the franchise... With all due respect to the late 60's through mid 70's teams...

If they play Atlanta 10 times Atlanta wins 1 and unfortunately for us that's the 1 of 10 that happened...

The Super Bowl felt like nothing more than a formality that year after Minnesota lost.

Then again, I thought it would be the same way in 2001... when the Pats beat Pittsburgh and got in. Boy, was I wrong there. I thought St. Louis was going to put on a show.
 
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