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10,000 Posts for a Flyers Cup in 2019

awaz

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If you do this to a player you probably wont be getting his best effort every night like we see now. Injuries start to last longer shifts get shorter until the final year when he goes all out and increases his value for a new team.
You can want to believe that all you want, but look at all those players on those contracts. If we're getting half-assed performances from those guys because of those deals, then what are they when they actually try?
 

awaz

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And this expands beyond Provorov too. Every RFA I've named is in the same boat. I would say you're looking at 1-2M below market value for every single one of those guys. And locked up long term, while the cap rises. Once you start getting those guys locked in, you start making dumb trade deadline moves and dumb UFA signings. Because you have your core in place, locked in, at good contracts. Not only that, but you have a second wave of ELC's coming in to fill in the depth and replace guys that you don't sign to dumb, UFA-status contracts. Guys like Farabee and O'Brien who just got drafted and are 2-3 years away from NHL time.
 

lasgop8

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We can argue it all we want. We're not in on the conversations. But the hundreds of stars that signed contracts when they were RFA are a good indication that Provorov will get paid significant less than his open market value would be.

And that's the whole point of the article and my defense of Hextall.
Its also very common for hundreds of players RFAs have their best year in the final year to increase their value.
 

awaz

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Its also very common for hundreds of players RFAs have their best year in the final year to increase their value.

True. And that would indicate we can expect big things from Provorov this year. And as a result, an improved defense :)
 

Chris p Bacon

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It's hard because he's only signed for this season. So I look at rental type trades. To make it easy, i'm looking at deadline deals over the past 10+ years, Hossa from the Thrashers to the Pens seems like the closest match. One of the best forwards in the game at the time, last year of his contract so there was some uncertainty about his future.

Pens gave up:
Colby Armstrong - 25 yrs, putting up .44ppg that season
Erik Christensen - 24 yrs, putting up .40ppg that season
1st Round pick
Angelo Esposito - #20 overall pick the year prior, had been though of as a possible top 5 pick at the time; probably Pittsburgh's best prospect at the time.

They also got Dupuis in the deal which obviously ended up being meaningful, but he had 34 pts in 133 games (.26ppg) over his last 4 seasons at the time.

Given that they'd actually get a full season of Panarin instead of just a half-season, the return would probably need to be a little better. Blue Jackets were 17th in GF/G last season and 8th in GA/G, so they're probably looking offense. I also expect they're looking a little less at the future and more at now help.

I think the obvious starting point would be Simmonds, but does Columbus want to replace one risk with another? If I were them, I wouldn't. If I'm playing the risk game, I might as well keep Panarin, he's better than Simmonds by a significant margin. With that assumption, I'd then ask for Voracek if I were Columbus. He's averaged .85ppg to Panarin's .96ppg over the past 3 seasons. You replace a good bit of his production. Voracek is 2 years older and a little less productive, so I want more than just Voracek. And rather than a 1st round pick, i'm looking for something quicker. I ask for Frost and Voracek for Panarin.

If the Flyers balked at that, as Columbus, my focus would be on Konecny as the main piece. He's under team control for a bit, he's got a lot of potential and managed .58ppg last season. I think Konecny is equivalent to Armstrong and Christensen going back to the Hossa deal. 1st rounder for 1st rounder is easy. And I would say replacing Esposito has got to be Frost, Farabee, or Sanheim. Not knowing CBJ's prospect pool well, but feeling like their D isn't great behind Jones/Werenski, i'd go Sanheim. So Konecny, Sanheim, and a 1st.
Damn you did your homework and then some, Kudos to you for that. I'd be close to entertaining the Koneckny and maybe a 1st. I'd hate to give up Sanheim, but if you did include Sanheim, I think you could pick up another Dman somewhere along the way. Gudas and AMac seem to be pieces were going to be replacing and you still have Hagg and Morin to add to the mix so I think with a Panarin and maybe one more good defensive player we could be scary this season IMO. Lets do it Ron:D
 
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awaz

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Damn you did your homework and then some, Kudos to you for that. I'd be close to entertaining the Koneckny and maybe a 1st. I'd hate to give up Sanheim, but if you did include Sanheim, I think you could pick up another Dman somewhere along the way. Gudas and AMac seem to be pieces were going to be replacing and you still have Hagg and Morin to add to the mix so I think with a Panarin and maybe one more good defensive player we could be scary this season IMO. Lets do it Ron:D

Always :)

Gotta give to get, and Panarin is a big get!
 

Maverick426h

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Top 6 forward (Voracek) and a top prospect (Frost)! I could do that guys job :).

Yeah, screw that though. No way I'm giving up Voracek and a 1st or a top prospect for Panarin.

You can definitely make the argument that Panarin is not even an upgrade over Voracek and God knows how much money Panarin is going to want with his next deal (he has just one season of $6 million left). We have Jake locked up at $8.25 million for the next 6 seasons.

I see Kucherov just got 8 years and $76 million, so the Bread Man will probably want exactly that or more.

No thanks, I'll take Jake for the remainder of his contract. He just had 85 points in 82 games, which was 3 more than Panarin.
 
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Maverick426h

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The price on Panarin probably goes down significantly as they get to a stage where he could just walk. They absolutely don't want this to end up like the Islander's complete disaster with Tavares.
 

awaz

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Yeah, screw that though. No way I'm giving up Voracek and a 1st or a top prospect for Panarin.

You can definitely make the argument that Panarin is not even an upgrade over Voracek and God knows how much money Panarin is going to want with his next deal (he has just one season of $6 million left). We have Jake locked up at $8.25 million for the next 6 seasons.

I see Kucherov just got 8 years and $76 million, so the Bread Man will probably want exactly that or more.

No thanks, I'll take Jake for the remainder of his contract. He just had 85 points in 82 games, which was 3 more than Panarin.

Wasn't saying I would. Just saying that's the return Panarin will want. And they'll probably get something close to that.

I would be interested in adding a guy like Panarin, but not since they added JvR. And not for a return like that. If they wanted a bunch of picks and prospects (or Simmonds+), pre-JvR signing, I would consider it.

Also, just for the record, I would disagree if you were arguing that Panarin isn't an upgrade over Voracek. I like Voracek and have no interest in trading him, but Panarin is better and younger. I'd take him every time.
 

FlyerFinFan

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Wasn't saying I would. Just saying that's the return Panarin will want. And they'll probably get something close to that.

I would be interested in adding a guy like Panarin, but not since they added JvR. And not for a return like that. If they wanted a bunch of picks and prospects (or Simmonds+), pre-JvR signing, I would consider it.

Also, just for the record, I would disagree if you were arguing that Panarin isn't an upgrade over Voracek. I like Voracek and have no interest in trading him, but Panarin is better and younger. I'd take him every time.
Maybe younger but better? I don't know about that if so why did hawks dump him so quickly? I'd rather they find a PK'er and a 3rd line center if Frost isn't ready. I think that they also need one of the young goalies to step up for any cup shot this year. I'm patient though don't want to screw up the future...
 

awaz

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Maybe younger but better? I don't know about that if so why did hawks dump him so quickly? I'd rather they find a PK'er and a 3rd line center if Frost isn't ready. I think that they also need one of the young goalies to step up for any cup shot this year. I'm patient though don't want to screw up the future...

I do think he's better. Hawks gave him up for Saad because of 'grit and two way play'. I expect they regret that a good bit at this point given the somewhat down year Saad had.

I'm with you though. I'm not looking to add offense, especially given the JvR signing.
 
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JBM73

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I think cap space was the primary motivator in Chicago moving Panarin more than anything

Correct. They knew Panarin would command a huge contract after 2 years so they picked up a longer cost controlled asset in Saad. Saad and Toews had great chemistry previously, and they thought that reuniting those two would offset the loss of Panarin. After one season it definitely appears to have been a bad trade.
 

lasgop8

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I do think he's better. Hawks gave him up for Saad because of 'grit and two way play'. I expect they regret that a good bit at this point given the somewhat down year Saad had.

I'm with you though. I'm not looking to add offense, especially given the JvR signing.
Man i hope JVR lives up to your expectations. Especially since he probably will be playing against 2nd line players this season and not third.
 
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