#1 SP

[NWinAZ]

When was the last time we obtained via free agency or trade a #1 or even #2 SP? The only guy I can think of is Cliff Lee and he lasted like 2 weeks. I didn't include Randy because he wasn't even a MLB pitcher so nobody knew his future at that point. We did trade a #1 for him, but that was well worth it.

I just find that amazing after 40 years I can only name Lee.

 

[mcnabb7542]

What was Bosio, a #3 back then?

 

[SeattleCoug]

There are guys that we acquired that ended up being top of the rotation guys. I'm thinking like Moyer, Garcia, and you can throw Kuma in there. However I don't think that is what you are asking because those guys weren't really highly regarded before they were Ms.

I can't think of someone other then Lee either.

 

[unlvmariners]

Good point... Lee is about it especially recently.

No reason to believe it will change either.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Ahh I think I found another

Bedard

 

[unlvmariners]

Ahh I think I found another

Bedard

 

[wazzu31]

I don't remember what he actually was or really him pitching but I remember how stoked I was when the Mariners traded for Andy Benes.

But I will semi defend the organization. When they weren't the joke of the AL they had Randy so didn't need a one. After Randy Saefco Field made crappy pitchers good (except Silva) but then they had Moyer then Felix so haven't needed a number 1. This would've been essentially the first year since they got Randy that they needed a number 1 because every single starter in the penciled in rotation had massive question marks.

 

[NWinAZ]

What was Bosio, a #3 back then?

End of his career and played on courage alone...no knees. End of rotation guy that willed himself.

 

[NWinAZ]

There are guys that we acquired that ended up being top of the rotation guys. I'm thinking like Moyer, Garcia, and you can throw Kuma in there. However I don't think that is what you are asking because those guys weren't really highly regarded before they were Ms.

I can't think of someone other then Lee either.

Exactly.

 

[NWinAZ]

Ahh I think I found another

Bedard

Good call. I guess my mind erased that name for good...thanks for bringing it back...lol.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don't remember what he actually was or really him pitching but I remember how stoked I was when the Mariners traded for Andy Benes.

I remember that trade as well and Benes was a turd. I know he was probably a #2 at the time, but he did little and seemed to coast through the year.

But I will semi defend the organization. When they weren't the joke of the AL they had Randy so didn't need a one. After Randy Saefco Field made crappy pitchers good (except Silva) but then they had Moyer then Felix so haven't needed a number 1. This would've been essentially the first year since they got Randy that they needed a number 1 because every single starter in the penciled in rotation had massive question marks.

I understand your premise, but that is what has burned me for decades. AZ had Randy and Schilling and it took them to the title. All legit teams who have a true ace and not just a #1 follow it up with a legit #2 if they want to to win a title. It extends winning streaks and playoffs are won with two studs a majority of the time.

As far as Safeco goes, they have used that poor excuse for years and it has never worked. First in only accounts for half the games and second it also makes the other teams pitcher better and if he is already better advantage them.

Again, I agree with what you are saying is true but time for them to stop with the excuses and just get better fucking talent!!!!!!!

 

[SeattleCoug]

Good call. I guess my mind erased that name for good...thanks for bringing it back...lol.

Understandably forgettable. If you turned a game on in the 6th inning he was already gone.

 

[Mariners_44]

Understandably forgettable. If you turned a game on in the 6th inning he was already gone.

Sounds like every starter in every game this year.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Sounds like every starter in every game this year.

Touché.

 

[wazzu31]

I remember that trade as well and Benes was a turd. I know he was probably a #2 at the time, but he did little and seemed to coast through the year.



I understand your premise, but that is what has burned me for decades. AZ had Randy and Schilling and it took them to the title. All legit teams who have a true ace and not just a #1 follow it up with a legit #2 if they want to to win a title. It extends winning streaks and playoffs are won with two studs a majority of the time.

As far as Safeco goes, they have used that poor excuse for years and it has never worked. First in only accounts for half the games and second it also makes the other teams pitcher better and if he is already better advantage them.

Again, I agree with what you are saying is true but time for them to stop with the excuses and just get better fucking talent!!!!!!!

Definitely not saying I agree with their approach but outside of 2001, they have had IMO bigger fish to fry whether it be an OF, bullpen help, a power bat or just in general any one with a pulse offensively. Just playing devils advocate here.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Since 2005 or so the only two I can think of are Erik Bedard and Cliff Lee. Perhaps the thinking was that over the past 10 years or so the offense has been so bad that we needed to focus on that, and not adding another ace to a rotation spearheaded by the best years of Felix Hernandez.

I wouldn't rule the Mariners paying top dollar for one this offseason though, it's just a matter of if said pitcher wants to even come to Seattle.

I think that now it's quite clear that the Mariners no longer have an ace (Felix is done and Paxton may have the stuff to be an ace, but never stays healthy) I could see them working the free agent market.

I'd mention them attempting to trade for one, but we really don't have the minor league assets to make such a move.

 

[NWinAZ]

Since 2005 or so the only two I can think of are Erik Bedard and Cliff Lee. Perhaps the thinking was that over the past 10 years or so the offense has been so bad that we needed to focus on that, and not adding another ace to a rotation spearheaded by the best years of Felix Hernandez.

I wouldn't rule the Mariners paying top dollar for one this offseason though, it's just a matter of if said pitcher wants to even come to Seattle.

I think that now it's quite clear that the Mariners no longer have an ace (Felix is done and Paxton may have the stuff to be an ace, but never stays healthy) I could see them working the free agent market.

I'd mention them attempting to trade for one, but we really don't have the minor league assets to make such a move.

This will truly be my last off season this winter watching the Mariners if they don't sign a top end SP. No excuses. Either they get it done or I won't waste another year on them. I think 42 years of rooting for a loser earns me that right. Even the few times they won, management.ownership did nothing to help them succeed in the end. I went to every '95 home playoff game even though it was a 4.5 hour round trip. I have been to spring training about ten different years and when my wife wanted to move to find the sun I picked down there because of them. I have paid my dues. Hell I even still have scorebooks from my days as a kid keeping them while listening to the radio game after game. I love baseball and I still have some passion for the M's, but this one-sided relationship will end at the end of next off season of legit change does not take place. I guess us getting every crappy pitcher while a team head and shoulders above us pulls in the best pitcher available did it for me. Or maybe the Upton trade to the other team ahead of us.

 

[Mariners_44]

This will truly be my last off season this winter watching the Mariners if they don't sign a top end SP. No excuses. Either they get it done or I won't waste another year on them. I think 42 years of rooting for a loser earns me that right. Even the few times they won, management.ownership did nothing to help them succeed in the end. I went to every '95 home playoff game even though it was a 4.5 hour round trip. I have been to spring training about ten different years and when my wife wanted to move to find the sun I picked down there because of them. I have paid my dues. Hell I even still have scorebooks from my days as a kid keeping them while listening to the radio game after game. I love baseball and I still have some passion for the M's, but this one-sided relationship will end at the end of next off season of legit change does not take place. I guess us getting every crappy pitcher while a team head and shoulders above us pulls in the best pitcher available did it for me. Or maybe the Upton trade to the other team ahead of us.

I'm done for this year. Week one is a week away, and by the lack of moves to go along with other division moves the 17' season is over. We hardly had a chance before, but now it's official. JeDi and Stanton should walk next door and see how a champion is built, oh yeah, JeDi's head couldn't fit through the door never mind.

16 and counting fellas, till next year!

 

[SeattleCoug]

This will truly be my last off season this winter watching the Mariners if they don't sign a top end SP. No excuses. Either they get it done or I won't waste another year on them. I think 42 years of rooting for a loser earns me that right. Even the few times they won, management.ownership did nothing to help them succeed in the end. I went to every '95 home playoff game even though it was a 4.5 hour round trip. I have been to spring training about ten different years and when my wife wanted to move to find the sun I picked down there because of them. I have paid my dues. Hell I even still have scorebooks from my days as a kid keeping them while listening to the radio game after game. I love baseball and I still have some passion for the M's, but this one-sided relationship will end at the end of next off season of legit change does not take place. I guess us getting every crappy pitcher while a team head and shoulders above us pulls in the best pitcher available did it for me. Or maybe the Upton trade to the other team ahead of us.

To put it bluntly, they just don't know how to win. They have no fucking clue. They can run a business well and make a profit, Ill give them that. I mean they have lost over half the fanbase since 2001 and still do ok. But in terms of building a championship product on the field they have no idea or they have no idea who to hire to make that happen. The few chances they had to make a bold move to buy they didn't. Now countless years they have had a chance to sell and start over but they keep avoiding. They aren't catching they Astros in the next 5+ years and the core is nearly done, yet here we are. Pretty much every other franchise knows when to buy and when to sell but we cant figure it out. So yea I like forward to another offseason of mini moves so we can extend our window of being able to win 85 games, yay!

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Houston just got Verlander... Man, the rich just got richer..