Trading DOWN

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

The point is getting value. Theres no value taking players rounds early when you know they will be there later.

As far as Wilson goes, word is the eagles were going to pick him right after us. In fact Schneider wanted him round one but we waited because we knew nobody else had him ranked that high. Thanks for the excellent example.

Click to expand...

The way I remember it is JS wanted RW in the 2nd, but Pete wanted Wags more and was confident Russell was going to be there when we picked 3rd.
Pete rules the roost and was fortunate to get both players.
Hell, we are probably both wrong, LOL.

The so-called draft guru's rank players according to bpa... They don't rank them to the bpa that fits the Seahawks style of play... Nor do they fit them to the Cardinals style of play... etc.. etc.. The Hawks rank them by BPA to how they fit w/in their system... Not sure how difficult it is to understand this...

Bruce Irvin was considered a huge reach and received a poor grade from critics but that turned out ok... He fit the role the Hawks valued him at... Same with RW... That's all that matters...

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

The point is getting value. Theres no value taking players rounds early when you know they will be there later.

As far as Wilson goes, word is the eagles were going to pick him right after us. In fact Schneider wanted him round one but we waited because we knew nobody else had him ranked that high. Thanks for the excellent example.

Click to expand...

The Eagles had RW pegged at round 2 and was ready to bite but figured he wasn't on anybody's radar until late third going into the forth so they held out, bad for them good for us. Point is never assume, if the FO sees a guy they like then take him, don't wait the extra round or two because some dope from ESPN says differently cause he might not be there by the time they draft again.

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

The point is getting value. Theres no value taking players rounds early when you know they will be there later.

Click to expand...

No. The point is getting the best players you can possibly get.

You have absolutely no idea what the Seahawks draft board looked like. Or any other team for that matter.

If a player is the top rated player on their draft board then that is the player they should take. Maybe they improperly slotted the player, maybe they didn't. But if you don't trust your own draft board then you screwed.

Regardless of what the consensus says about a player, it is ultimately the responsibility of the team to get the best players they feel they can get.

As far as Wilson goes, word is the eagles were going to pick him right after us. In fact Schneider wanted him round one but we waited because we knew nobody else had him ranked that high. Thanks for the excellent example.

Click to expand...

So you're saying that we nearly missed out on drafting the best QB in Seahawk history because the GM thought value was more important that talent?

ESPN's Todd McShay assessing Seattle's draft on conference call today: "They killed it.''

Uhh ohh...did we just get the kiss of death. Kiper gave us a C grade so that might be enough to offset that.

RegentDenali said:

ESPN's Todd McShay assessing Seattle's draft on conference call today: "They killed it.''

Uhh ohh...did we just get the kiss of death. Kiper gave us a C grade so that might be enough to offset that.

Click to expand...

flyerhawk said:

No. The point is getting the best players you can possibly get.

You have absolutely no idea what the Seahawks draft board looked like. Or any other team for that matter.

If a player is the top rated player on their draft board then that is the player they should take. Maybe they improperly slotted the player, maybe they didn't. But if you don't trust your own draft board then you screwed.

Regardless of what the consensus says about a player, it is ultimately the responsibility of the team to get the best players they feel they can get.



So you're saying that we nearly missed out on drafting the best QB in Seahawk history because the GM thought value was more important that talent?

Click to expand...

Teams have a feel for how other teams rank players, you disagree?

love this comment

Did the Seahawks have a good draft, or did the graders fear a repeat of 2011 when Seattle was given a low grade in a draft that had linebacker K.J. Wright and cornerback Richard Sherman in the middle rounds?

I think this played into it a little. I feel this draft is a little lower than the 2014 draft as far as grades go. If these kids play up to their draft slots then good for the Hawks i will be excited but right now i feel they held serve and did not improve all that much if any. Youth is nice and all but only time will tell if this is a good draft or not. So me saying it was a subpar draft may be wrong but for anyone excited about it you are also wrong. Only time will tell.

PS since when do i not have the right to my own opinion? Nothing you say or do will change it so you might as well give up.

still in Day two i gave them a D- day three i give them a C+ so i guess that means C-? D+? C- is passing D+ is not so let it play out.

RegentDenali said:

ESPN's Todd McShay assessing Seattle's draft on conference call today: "They killed it.''

Uhh ohh...did we just get the kiss of death. Kiper gave us a C grade so that might be enough to offset that.

Click to expand...

Meh, Kiper doesn't get much right but a C grade from him is high.

Screamin12th said:

still in Day two i gave them a D- day three i give them a C+ so i guess that means C-? D+? C- is passing D+ is not so let it play out.

Click to expand...

So you think that nearly every Day 2 pick we made was a bad pick?

Screamin12th said:

Youth is nice and all but only time will tell if this is a good draft or not. So me saying it was a subpar draft may be wrong but for anyone excited about it you are also wrong. Only time will tell.

PS since when do i not have the right to my own opinion? Nothing you say or do will change it so you might as well give up.

Click to expand...

I for one am saying exactly that we should let it play out a bit before we judge. Who is telling you not to have a opinion? I'm just expressing MY opinion which happens to differ from yours.

Analysis | The Seahawks’ John Schneider is the best-drafting GM in the past 20 years

“I thought they killed it,’’ McShay said of Seattle’s trading down three times to acquire four extra picks while still getting a player most considered a first-rounder — Michigan State defensive tackle Malik McDowell — in the second round at No. 35 overall.

“To me that was one of the value moves of the entire draft,’’ McShay said. “Especially when you consider the history of (coach) Pete Carroll and (general manager) John Schneider and how many players they have found in the later rounds, knowing that that is a skill of theirs.’’

McShay said he thinks McDowell was “one of’’ the players the Seahawks wanted all along at 26 and being able to move down and get four more players — which turned out to be safety Delano Hill, safety Tedric Thompson, cornerback Mike Tyson and running back Chris Carson — “was brilliant.’’


McShay added he had consistently mocked McDowell to the Seahawks early before deciding that McDowell was likely slipping out of the first round.

“I think McDowell is going to thrive there,’’ McShay said. “I always thought he was a scheme fit (with the Seahawks).’’

Kiper said he also thinks McDowell has a chance to pay off for the Seahawks, comparing his situation to that a year ago of Mississippi State defensive lineman Chris Jones, who fell out of the first round for similar worries about his consistency and fell to the Chiefs in the second round at pick No. 37. Jones emerged as a starter for Kansas City and key defensive player down the stretch.

So are we supposed to ignore the "experts" or adore them?

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

So are we supposed to ignore the "experts" or adore them?

Click to expand...

You trust your FO. The Kipers of the world think they know who fits where and on what team yet they don't have any GM experience. Our FO knows how to build a Super Bowl winning team. Give these a players a chance before down grading their play.

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

So are we supposed to ignore the "experts" or adore them?

Click to expand...

Somewhere in between. I think McShay is praising the strategy as much or more than who specifically was picked. The team had multiple players (based on their post-draft comments) graded equally enough at the top of the draft that they traded down far enough to pick up 4 more picks but not so far that they ran a high risk of losing out on all the guys they liked at 26. I have no idea if their 5 picks here from this move will be good, but I think the strategy is solid. That's what I feel McShay is focusing on with his comments.

JMR said:

Somewhere in between. I think McShay is praising the strategy as much or more than who specifically was picked. The team had multiple players (based on their post-draft comments) graded equally enough at the top of the draft that they traded down far enough to pick up 4 more picks but not so far that they ran a high risk of losing out on all the guys they liked at 26. I have no idea if their 5 picks here from this move will be good, but I think the strategy is solid. That's what I feel McShay is focusing on with his comments.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

It is hard to argue that tactically they were masterful in gaining 4 additional picks while moving down 8 spots. That is simply amazing work.

For all you critics I would ask you this. Which player at 26 would you have taken that would have been a better pick than Malik McDowell, Delano Hill, Tedric Thompson, Mike Tyson and Chris Carson? Does anyone want to seriously suggest that Kevin King would have been a better pick than all 5 of those players? Or Cam Robinson?

flyerhawk said:

Exactly.

It is hard to argue that tactically they were masterful in gaining 4 additional picks while moving down 8 spots. That is simply amazing work.

For all you critics I would ask you this. Which player at 26 would you have taken that would have been a better pick than Malik McDowell, Delano Hill, Tedric Thompson, Mike Tyson and Chris Carson? Does anyone want to seriously suggest that Kevin King would have been a better pick than all 5 of those players? Or Cam Robinson?

Click to expand...

And when the Hawks were on the clock at 26 and had there been a player there that stood out above all the rest on their board, I think they would have taken him instead of trading down. But that clearly was not the case.

I was good with the first trade down. Im not good with leaving extremely talented players like foster on the board. If he turns out to be patrick willis we will kicking ourselves for the next 10 years.

If we add on to that a mcdowell bust then it really hurts.

Lets face facts, all these 3rd rounders, we will be fortunate if one of them becomes a starter. Thats just how the statistics play out in the long run

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

I was good with the first trade down. Im not good with leaving extremely talented players like foster on the board. If he turns out to be patrick willis we will kicking ourselves for the next 10 years.

If we add on to that a mcdowell bust then it really hurts.

Lets face facts, all these 3rd rounders, we will be fortunate if one of them becomes a starter. Thats just how the statistics play out in the long run

Click to expand...

You are focusing on specific players that may or may not pan out.

Ruben Foster doesn't have a position to play for us right now. And, IMO, if you are going to draft a LB in the first round they need to be transcendent players. Maybe Foster will be one of those players but that seems unlikely.

The draft is always a crap shoot. Focusing on individual players is pointless.

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

Lets face facts, all these 3rd rounders, we will be fortunate if one of them becomes a starter. Thats just how the statistics play out in the long run

Click to expand...

Have you seen our record of drafting after the top two rounds?