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Different rules for different coaches.....

WVUDAD

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Gold & Blue Lunch Report: That 2014 class keeps dissipating
We heard from some how horrible our recruiting classes turned out under a previous coach, but look the other way for our current coach.....some now say that WVU will never be a great football school, I do not have a crystal ball, but it CAN happen, and had Fraud stayed I think we would be getting there now, we watch teams grow into powers all the time, look at Oregon, they were nothing, then got the right coaches and were powers, then got the wrong coach and back to mediocrity, we hear from some that it is all about the talent on the field, I say BS, did the talent dry up at ND and Texas this year. no, it did not, did the kids forget how to play ball at MSU? Coaching is MORE important than pure talent. If Saban walked into WVU tomorrow, with the talent we currently have, he would have us winning like never before!!! Holgorsen is right now at the same level as Stewart was in year 3........
 

bbwvfan

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Jesus... the team just finished one of its most successful seasons in program history, and we have stupid fucks trying to piss on it?

My God, what is wrong with some of these so-called WVU fans?

Billy did nothing to correct his attrition rate. NOTHING!!

How can some be so fucking stupid not to understand this point? Every coach at every school is going to have attrition. Some years, the staff will miss out on its evaluation... and kids are asked to move on... or see how deep they've fallen on the depth chart... and choose to leave.

As the HC of the program, you adjust and backfill to replace the open schollies. Have you ever wondered why walk-ons get rewarded scholarships later in their tenure? There has to be a schollie available to do so... right?

Did Dana have a depleted roster this year? Did Dana have great depth this year at nearly every position? Did Dana have the same situation when he first started out?

Get a fucking clue...
 

WVUDAD

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WOW, just WOW. Don't say a negative word about bb's mancrush............
 

bbwvfan

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Why does Chris refer to the '14 class as one of the more hyped in recent memory?

It consisted of two 4 stars. DTW had a bad head, and never got it right. The other 4 star has been a major player for WVU since he started.

The '14 class ended with some major contributors.
 

wvu_man

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Why does Chris refer to the '14 class as one of the more hyped in recent memory?

It consisted of two 4 stars. DTW had a bad head, and never got it right. The other 4 star has been a major player for WVU since he started.

The '14 class ended with some major contributors.

One could argue too that the reason for a lot of the attrition was impatience due to losing competition battles. Funderburk and Owens both had run ins with the law and were dismissed. Would you rather still have them on the team and be known as THAT kind of program to win at all cost? Also, chances are that we wouldn't have got Grier or Crawford if DTW and Crest would've panned out. Blessing in disguise maybe?
 

bbwvfan

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Ehh...this will be the year to see how good the class was...there were a couple of mis-fires.. maybe...but the kids getting in trouble..what do you do? Make them run a few stairs...or set an example of zero tolerance..

This topic legitimately has me rolling over...

Remember these guys? Five transfers from a Texas A&M recruiting class that didn't pan out | SportsDay

By the time Texas A&M signed its 2013 recruiting class, the Aggies were fresh off their best season since the days of John David Crow and Bear Bryant.

Their contemporary counterparts, Johnny Manziel and Kevin Sumlin, led the Aggies to a No. 5 ranking in the final Associated Press Top 25 poll, the team's highest ranking since 1956. Manziel, who just won the Heisman Trophy, was returning for his junior year and Sumlin was entering his second as the team's coach after the 11-win campaign.

The Aggies used that momentum to sign a 32-man class ranked fifth in that country. But this class ended up being a sobering reminder that no matter how good a recruiting class looks on paper, there's always a chance doesn't pan out.

And this one didn't even come close. Twelve players of the '13 class (37.5 percent, if you're wondering) transferred willingly or because they were kicked off the team.
 

bbwvfan

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One could argue too that the reason for a lot of the attrition was impatience due to losing competition battles. Funderburk and Owens both had run ins with the law and were dismissed. Would you rather still have them on the team and be known as THAT kind of program to win at all cost? Also, chances are that we wouldn't have got Grier or Crawford if DTW and Crest would've panned out. Blessing in disguise maybe?

You are absolutely spot on! DAD loves to troll WVU. I have no idea why he keeps doing the same shit he's done for the past 6 seasons.

Let's not forget... he started a thread before the season about Marshall football taking over as the best team in WV. Cited for us all... how sad times had become...
 

Anotherwvufan

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Off season speculation makes for good discussions. Who knows, Had Stew ended up staying, he may have done just as well as Holgs has. What about RR? How would we be if we had him another 10 years?

From the looks of it, 2014 was a really bad year for WVU recruits. This class was not weak because of contract issues. Holgs seems to rely more on JC recruits which can call into question his player development skills. 2014 in my opinion is worse than Stews worst year of recruiting. Sure Finatu never made it to any of his classes, but each of his classes produced more than 4 contributors. I won't call anyone stupid for bringing up this issue. Many of you Holgs homers don't believe the truth that we have had some poor recruiting ratings over the past couple of years. Granted those rankings have little meaning, but when you look at the kids who make it on the field and see what they do.

If we could pitt RR's 2005 team vs. Stews 2011 team vs. the 2016 Mountaineers, who do you think would win out? Add in Nehlen's 1998 team to the mix also.

Needless to say, whoever the coach, it is West Virginia a state that may produce 2-3 div 1 recruits every year. we have always loaded up on 2 and 3 star guys with a couple of 4-5 stars (usually head cases) added to the mix. Good coaching by all of the above has made it so our AP rank usually ends up higher than the Scout class ratings. By my account, all have done a good job, but none will get us to the NC level.

and btw bbw
Let's not forget... he started a thread before the season about Marshall football taking over as the best team in WV. Cited for us all... how sad times had become...

Dad reposted the ESPN article that had Marshall as teh best in the State. I found it rather amusing, not rally a trolling attempt.
 

WVUDAD

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BB, why do you feel the need to belittle fellow fans, we all have our views and ideas about teams, coaches, and where the program is headed. We all want the best for WVU football, and have various ideas on getting there, that does not make anyone a troll, a moron, or any other insult you feel like throwing out there. Holgorsen seems to have learned a great deal in the last two years, but the B12 was way down this year, so we will see in the coming years if he has really learned anything, or if the weak schedule this year just made him look good. Yet again excuses are made for Holgorsen for the exact same things that caused many to turn against Stewart.
 

bbwvfan

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Off season speculation makes for good discussions. Who knows, Had Stew ended up staying, he may have done just as well as Holgs has. What about RR? How would we be if we had him another 10 years?

From the looks of it, 2014 was a really bad year for WVU recruits. This class was not weak because of contract issues. Holgs seems to rely more on JC recruits which can call into question his player development skills. 2014 in my opinion is worse than Stews worst year of recruiting. Sure Finatu never made it to any of his classes, but each of his classes produced more than 4 contributors. I won't call anyone stupid for bringing up this issue. Many of you Holgs homers don't believe the truth that we have had some poor recruiting ratings over the past couple of years. Granted those rankings have little meaning, but when you look at the kids who make it on the field and see what they do.

If we could pitt RR's 2005 team vs. Stews 2011 team vs. the 2016 Mountaineers, who do you think would win out? Add in Nehlen's 1998 team to the mix also.

Needless to say, whoever the coach, it is West Virginia a state that may produce 2-3 div 1 recruits every year. we have always loaded up on 2 and 3 star guys with a couple of 4-5 stars (usually head cases) added to the mix. Good coaching by all of the above has made it so our AP rank usually ends up higher than the Scout class ratings. By my account, all have done a good job, but none will get us to the NC level.

and btw bbw
Let's not forget... he started a thread before the season about Marshall football taking over as the best team in WV. Cited for us all... how sad times had become...

Dad reposted the ESPN article that had Marshall as teh best in the State. I found it rather amusing, not rally a trolling attempt.

Ummm.... yeah... when you add commentary to the CBS article... "Before Holgorsen this would have been unthinkable"... you have met the definition of trolling.

Another, how does recruiting JUCO's reflect on Dana's player development skills? That could be one of the most absurd comments I've ever seen you post.

Recruiting JUCO's by Dana has been consistent. He recruits areas of need. The reason a position of need presents itself can vary.... but, predominantly it is due to underclassmen leaving the program in search of PT.

One could argue his record of getting kids drafted in the NFL is solid proof of his player development. How many 3 star recruits has he put in the NFL?
 

mad2mc

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BB, why do you feel the need to belittle fellow fans, we all have our views and ideas about teams, coaches, and where the program is headed. We all want the best for WVU football, and have various ideas on getting there, that does not make anyone a troll, a moron, or any other insult you feel like throwing out there. Holgorsen seems to have learned a great deal in the last two years, but the B12 was way down this year, so we will see in the coming years if he has really learned anything, or if the weak schedule this year just made him look good. Yet again excuses are made for Holgorsen for the exact same things that caused many to turn against Stewart.

This quote seems to always appear at the end of every season. It is written in such a way that it appears as if he is the victim of ridicule forgetting that he attempts to belittle others also. Need to get thicker skin and stop seeking sympathy.
 

bbwvfan

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This quote seems to always appear at the end of every season. It is written in such a way that it appears as if he is the victim of ridicule forgetting that he attempts to belittle others also. Need to get thicker skin and stop seeking sympathy.

Fuck him...
 

Slaton10

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BB, why do you feel the need to belittle fellow fans, we all have our views and ideas about teams, coaches, and where the program is headed. We all want the best for WVU football, and have various ideas on getting there, that does not make anyone a troll, a moron, or any other insult you feel like throwing out there. Holgorsen seems to have learned a great deal in the last two years, but the B12 was way down this year, so we will see in the coming years if he has really learned anything, or if the weak schedule this year just made him look good. Yet again excuses are made for Holgorsen for the exact same things that caused many to turn against Stewart.

I think What Dana has "learned" is what the recruiting strategy should be going forward at Wv..in the past it was to mine Florida , sprinkle in Va and Pennsylvania maybe and hope and pray they all qualify ..but as we all now a significant percentage of kids that were recruited and listed as verbals ( maybe 10%) never made it campus. headed to Prep school.thus opened up their recruiting again..that in itself eroded past classes.so it appears since Dana has gone after sure things via the JUCO route, college transcript in hand, already qualified and it appears ready to step in and contribute..something it appears more schools are doing...I read just recently that for the Prep school's in the state of VA that enrollment is down due to kids now opting for JUCO ball instead..

Just thought I would put that out there..
 

Anotherwvufan

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Another, how does recruiting JUCO's reflect on Dana's player development skills? That could be one of the most absurd comments I've ever seen you post.

Absurd? We would not need the JUCO's if we had players ready to step in and start. Most teams get the JUCO's to fill immediate needs. My feeling is that the immediate need is a result of not having recruited or developed the players in previous years.

Just look at out QB situation. Ford Childress did not pan out. In comes a transfer for a year, then a JC transfer for the next two. Had Childress been good, we do not need either of them. I think that Skyler was insurance if Crest did not develop.

RBs. we were in need of RBs this year, Crawford fit the bill. CBs Worley left early, Douglass and Flemming were there to pick up the slack.

AI get the reason to use JUCOs to fill immediate needs, however when you recruit 10 guys who will be here 2 years and 9 guys who may be in 4, I start to wonder.

Want proof, look at Holgs 2014 class. Can you say anything better than failure when seeing who is still here and who has made the field from that class? If Holgs could develop that class, we would have had the bodies ready to contribute with 2 years of learning the system. Experience in the 3-3-5 means alot. A JUCO may be a better athlete but the extra years of repetitions in the system can make a difference.

Even with 10 JUCO additions, this years recruiting class still ranks below Iowa State.
 

Anotherwvufan

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I think What Dana has "learned" is what the recruiting strategy should be going forward at Wv..in the past it was to mine Florida , sprinkle in Va and Pennsylvania maybe and hope and pray they all qualify ..but as we all now a significant percentage of kids that were recruited and listed as verbals ( maybe 10%) never made it campus. headed to Prep school.thus opened up their recruiting again..that in itself eroded past classes.so it appears since Dana has gone after sure things via the JUCO route, college transcript in hand, already qualified and it appears ready to step in and contribute..something it appears more schools are doing...I read just recently that for the Prep school's in the state of VA that enrollment is down due to kids now opting for JUCO ball instead..

Just thought I would put that out there..

JUCO kids would not be necessary if we landed the right kids out of high school. Some JUCOs' can be great additions, but I feel that using too many of them is dangerous. Recruits can be like lottery tickets. Imagine if RR passed up on Slaton because he already landed Gwaltney, but needed to get some JUCOs in to fill out current depth chart with players ready to play.

Just my opinion. Who knows, Holgs may take 10 JUCOs every year and be successful. We had 7 in last year, 9 in this year (excluding Sills who we did land as a Freshman). We will have to keep reloading with JUCO's in the years to come to fill in the spots not filled by Freshman in the last two classes. Holgs does seem to get better talent through JUCO. Maybe this will be his niche. Heck even Bama took 2 JUCO's this year.
 

Slaton10

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JUCO kids would not be necessary if we landed the right kids out of high school. Some JUCOs' can be great additions, but I feel that using too many of them is dangerous. Recruits can be like lottery tickets. Imagine if RR passed up on Slaton because he already landed Gwaltney, but needed to get some JUCOs in to fill out current depth chart with players ready to play.

Just my opinion. Who knows, Holgs may take 10 JUCOs every year and be successful. We had 7 in last year, 9 in this year (excluding Sills who we did land as a Freshman). We will have to keep reloading with JUCO's in the years to come to fill in the spots not filled by Freshman in the last two classes. Holgs does seem to get better talent through JUCO. Maybe this will be his niche. Heck even Bama took 2 JUCO's this year.


I can't say this is fact...but just opinion...college football programs as a whole have gotten more competitive..just look at the recent draft...a kid from North Dakota State goes #2 in the entire draft...No matter what the records are and specifically in the power 5 conferences..a kid can go to any of those schools get a great education and if good enough will go high in the draft...that being said to me it makes it even more difficult for Wv to recruit not having at minimum 4 kids from the state be good enough to get an LOI..and by good enough 3 star talent at worse...think about it...in the last 20 years if my mind serves me right there has been only one 5 star kid (Jenkins) at he wasn't all that...and 1 Four Star the Wr who's name escapes me from Jefferson County ..

I think it gets tougher for Wv..especially in where they have recruited in FLA...Richt will build a wall around Miami and what gets out ends up at FAU with Kiffin...UCF will pick up scraps in the Orlando area..maybe and Florida State and Florida will fight over the rest and recruit across the country...

Kiffin going to Florida is a big problem for Wv specifically IMHO... Now with PITT on a upswing as well Penn State, Maryland, UVA and VA Tech where do you mine for kids if your Wv trying to fill out your class??...JUCO
 

bbwvfan

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Another, how does recruiting JUCO's reflect on Dana's player development skills? That could be one of the most absurd comments I've ever seen you post.

Absurd? We would not need the JUCO's if we had players ready to step in and start. Most teams get the JUCO's to fill immediate needs. My feeling is that the immediate need is a result of not having recruited or developed the players in previous years.

Just look at out QB situation. Ford Childress did not pan out. In comes a transfer for a year, then a JC transfer for the next two. Had Childress been good, we do not need either of them. I think that Skyler was insurance if Crest did not develop.

RBs. we were in need of RBs this year, Crawford fit the bill. CBs Worley left early, Douglass and Flemming were there to pick up the slack.

AI get the reason to use JUCOs to fill immediate needs, however when you recruit 10 guys who will be here 2 years and 9 guys who may be in 4, I start to wonder.

Want proof, look at Holgs 2014 class. Can you say anything better than failure when seeing who is still here and who has made the field from that class? If Holgs could develop that class, we would have had the bodies ready to contribute with 2 years of learning the system. Experience in the 3-3-5 means alot. A JUCO may be a better athlete but the extra years of repetitions in the system can make a difference.

Even with 10 JUCO additions, this years recruiting class still ranks below Iowa State.

Another... I know you ain't no dumb fuck like DAD... so, I'm gonna take some time to go through some of your shit. You are guilty of being a little lazy... which is OK... likely means you're really busy doing this thing called life...

QB is legit. It has not been a fluid situation like anyone would have hoped. Quite a bit to discuss on just this position as it relates to WVU as well as how it relates in college football.

Prior to Ford Childress, as WVU fans we have to look back to Billy's QB recruits. The WVU staff did a great job getting Geno Smith to commit very late in the recruiting game. If you remember, Tajh Boyd was the QB who committed early to Billy. Boyd to Heastie...

Behind Geno, Billy was able to get two highly rated QB's to sign... Jeremy Johnson out of Texas and Barry Brunetti out of Memphis, TN. Depending on the recruiting site... both were rated 4-stars. Jeremy left the team during fall camp. Brunetti left the team after his FR year... transferring to Ole Miss.

Remember the Spring Game of 2010? Geno was recovering from foot surgery, and Billy was left with one QB... Coley White... who played the position for both the Gold and the Blue teams? It was Coley's last time at the position...

In 2011, Billy goes out and recruits Brian Athey... a 2 star gem out of Eden Prairie, MN to be the future of WVU football. Brian is so excited to become a Mountaineer, he enrolls in January. His skills are so rich, the new OC/HCIW goes late after a TX QB and asks him to be a walk-on. Sadly for the future of WVU football... Athey leaves WVU... transfers to Illinois St where he found his true skill wasn't at QB... but playing TE.

Kids today expect immediate playing time... especially at QB. We have seen more freshman QB's starting than ever before across college football. I can understand why kids would transfer if they feel they're stuck deep on the depth chart. I can understand why some kids wouldn't be interested in coming to WVU if they feel like they would have to wait to see any PT.
 

bbwvfan

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Ford Childress is a sad story. Is he the only kid who has had a ton of talent go wasted in the history of the game? His injury and alcohol/drug abuse ruined his WVU opportunity. Based on what I've observed of Dana, I would say he gave the kid a chance to get his shit together before finally kicking him off the team.

Dana fairly gets criticized for his policy of recruiting but one QB per class. Chav Rawlins was recruited out of Monessen, PA with the understanding he could compete at QB... similar to William Crest. Chav enrolled early at WVU, and like Athey... decided to transfer to a lower level. He was gonna be a proud daddy, and wanted to be close to home. Also like Athey, Rawlins found his future was as a receiver.

We all know the rest of the story....
 
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