I will Take the HEAT.

WizardHawk said:

FACT
Seattle pays their O line $6m/y
NE pays their O line $26m/y

.

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Hey Wiz. We both love the Hawks. BUT......Cable plays a role on WHO is on the line. He makes poor choices. JS is the GM, but I guess Cable has input, and I'm SAD that Cables input is shit.

IMO, Cable is the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong AND Provide Proof, rather than just speculation like I'm supplying. I suggest Proof is hard to prove either way.

I'm just tired of RW getting mauled rather than RW having 2-3+ seconds on a drop.
I'm NOT at practice, but I think (IMO) something needs to change. And that change is CABLE.

DunceKaep said:

Hey Wiz. We both love the Hawks. BUT......Cable plays a role on WHO is on the line. He makes poor choices. JS is the GM, but I guess Cable has input, and I'm SAD that Cables input is shit.

IMO, Cable is the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong AND Provide Proof, rather than just speculation like I'm supplying. I suggest Proof is hard to prove either way.

I'm just tired of RW getting mauled rather than RW having 2-3+ seconds on a drop.
I'm NOT at practice, but I think (IMO) something needs to change. And that change is CABLE.

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I don't know what you are asking others to do so I've just left you this thread to vent in. I've been on record as saying I'm not a fan of Cable and wouldn't mind seeing him go, so suggesting I give you some kind of proof of something else is kind of confusing. In fact, I really don't know anyone that doesn't agree the O line has been the worst unit on this team for years now. At best some ask who you don't want on the defense anymore to free up more money for a better line, but they don't deny the line has been sub par.

How much of that is on Cable, RS, or PC? All must bear some of the blame.

IMO having Lynch and Wilson spoiled the staff into thinking it was ok to have a shit line and dump all of their efforts into the defense. Lynch is gone and Wilson spent half the year hurt and the line was just terrible most of the year. That combination didn't work.

WizardHawk said:

I don't know what you are asking others to do so I've just left you this thread to vent in. I've been on record as saying I'm not a fan of Cable and wouldn't mind seeing him go, so suggesting I give you some kind of proof of something else is kind of confusing. In fact, I really don't know anyone that doesn't agree the O line has been the worst unit on this team for years now. At best some ask who you don't want on the defense anymore to free up more money for a better line, but they don't deny the line has been sub par.

How much of that is on Cable, RS, or PC? All must bear some of the blame.

IMO having Lynch and Wilson spoiled the staff into thinking it was ok to have a shit line and dump all of their efforts into the defense. Lynch is gone and Wilson spent half the year hurt and the line was just terrible most of the year. That combination didn't work.

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I don't know how old you are! I'm old an have been a fan since day 1.
And even if you are not that old, I respect your Fanhood.

C'mon, we are on the same side, BUT it saddens me to see Cable have say in drafting,
Granted, I'm not in the draft room, but it appears to me that Cable has some influence on draft picks, and his influence (cable) has been insufficient.

Not hoping for a 'Hatred' of Cable, but I think he IS a problem. Thoughts Wiz?

jerseyhawksfan79 said:

Too many years of trying to convert D-line guys into o-line guys. Drafting JI last year was a good start and I hope they hit o-line in the first round again. No more projects.

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Or using a Basketball player at LT who had never played the position... Also, It's time to move on from Bevell ... I think a change would be good right now honestly...

boogiewithstu2007 said:

Or using a Basketball player at LT who had never played the position... Also, It's time to move on from Bevell ... I think a change would be good right now honestly...

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I think the must change would be Cable since the line has been way below average for far too long. Now if Bevell got canned I think JS/PC would just go out and find another Bevell because of their philosophy and ideas on how the offense runs. The only way that scheme changes is if someone interviews and wow'd them off the charts.

jerseyhawksfan79 said:

I think the must change would be Cable since the line has been way below average for far too long. Now if Bevell got canned I think JS/PC would just go out and find another Bevell because of their philosophy and ideas on how the offense runs. The only way that scheme changes is if someone interviews and wow'd them off the charts.

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What do you think about Kris Rashard ? I liked his passion today when they were down, showed some fire, but he's getting out coached, OC are abusing his schemes... When I saw Avril guarding a slant receiver on that HUGE 3rd down I about lost it... Also the constant blown coverages under his leadership, I mean even if we have less talent we can still have discipline at least...

boogiewithstu2007 said:

What do you think about Kris Rashard ? I liked his passion today when they were down, showed some fire, but he's getting out coached, OC are abusing his schemes... When I saw Avril guarding a slant receiver on that HUGE 3rd down I about lost it... Also the constant blown coverages under his leadership, I mean even if we have less talent we can still have discipline at least...

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Man I wish we could get Gus back.

Football in the NFL is about Talent, but also about coaching.

Duh.........

I have said nothing NEW........Fact is we need a different OL Coach. Sorry. But True.


I have railed on Bevell, but I truly think the problem is Cable. Please get a HC job. Please.

DunceKaep said:

I don't know how old you are! I'm old an have been a fan since day 1.
And even if you are not that old, I respect your Fanhood.

C'mon, we are on the same side, BUT it saddens me to see Cable have say in drafting,
Granted, I'm not in the draft room, but it appears to me that Cable has some influence on draft picks, and his influence (cable) has been insufficient.

Not hoping for a 'Hatred' of Cable, but I think he IS a problem. Thoughts Wiz?

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I predate the Seahawks by quite a bit, but I fail to see how that changes anything. If anything it makes me appreciate how hard it is to get even to the level where some fans can scoff at a 10 win season and a second round of the playoffs appearance as some disaster. We sat through miserable years where breaking .500 was a relief. All those times you just begged to get in as a wild card just in case something good would happen... and it never did. Like never. Ever.

Even Holmgren showed that proven top flight head coaches can still find it very very hard to win it all no matter how much control over the team they are given. It's rare to get a high quality HC and find that franchise QB at the same time.

We have that. And should feel entirely fucking lucky to have had it at all. And yet so many of our base acts like the team is more like the 49'ers than the Patriots.

It's called perspective. And a whole lot of our base has entirely lost it.

The offense is frustratingly boring and quite often ineffective. Conservative and predictable. One terrible line after another year after year.

But let's go back to the second most successful offense under the Holmgren era. Hasselback was a turnover machine in his early years with the hawks. And Alexander was infuriating with his quick bail on plays. That dude refused to take contact and it pissed a whole lot of us off. And cost them games. As much as I want to see Kearse go, the overall WR corp is among the strongest in team history, as sad as that might be.

I'll say this again, I don't know who to blame for the state of the offense. All of the staff have their room for blame. Ultimately it is Pete's vision and the offense runs the way he wants it. The largest share must be on him.

And yet just keep Thomas upright this year and they are probably still alive with one more game to go to reach the SB. The notion that we need to blow the whole damn thing up when they are one injured player shy of having that real chance is entirely bizarre to me. I can't wrap my brain around how so many are at that point.

Just go back and watch old games. From any era. Go watch ground chuck again. Go back to Zorn and Largent. Maybe some film on Krieg. Find a season that leads you to believe firing Pete or wholesale changing things when they are still this close to the elite status might somehow make us better. You won't find it.

And mince no words here, if you want Cable and/or Bevell gone you are asking to fire Pete because he's not pulling that trigger. You are looking to blow up the entire thing and going back to the dark ages where we try one failed coordinator promotion after another in desperate attempt to field a team that might have an outside shot at upsetting the apple cart.

I'm not on board with that.

At all.

we cant keep putting the same offense out there, its stagnant and not working. something has got to change.

if we go into next season with the same OL, same RBs, and same coaches I am calling it right now 8-8. sadly that might still win us the division if the cards cant pull it together.

WizardHawk said:

I predate the Seahawks by quite a bit, but I fail to see how that changes anything. If anything it makes me appreciate how hard it is to get even to the level where some fans can scoff at a 10 win season and a second round of the playoffs appearance as some disaster. We sat through miserable years where breaking .500 was a relief. All those times you just begged to get in as a wild card just in case something good would happen... and it never did. Like never. Ever.

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Amazing what short memories some have, others are to young to have experienced the truely dark times.

WizardHawk said:

We have that. And should feel entirely fucking lucky to have had it at all. And yet so many of our base acts like the team is more like the 49'ers than the Patriots.

It's called perspective. And a whole lot of our base has entirely lost it.

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Amen! Not just on this site either, you hear this crap all over.

WizardHawk said:

And mince no words here, if you want Cable and/or Bevell gone you are asking to fire Pete because he's not pulling that trigger. You are looking to blow up the entire thing and going back to the dark ages where we try one failed coordinator promotion after another in desperate attempt to field a team that might have an outside shot at upsetting the apple cart.

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WizardHawk said:

I'm not on board with that.

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Me neither. What's it been, 5 straight playoff appearances? 2 Superbowls and 1 Superbowl win. Lots of other fans of other teams would take that in a heartbeat. Putting it all together for a SB win includes some luck with injuries, hitting on the right players etc.. The competition gets paid to win also and some of them are dang good, so it's not realistic to expect the Seahawks to have a smooth sailing ever, it's always going to be a series of up and downs.

Was reading the paper this morning... It staggering how much our defense has falling off... We were -1 in turnovers this season, we were plus-20 in 2013 ... I think it's obvious we had to drop off somewhat from that, we had an historical defense in 2013, but NOT this much of a drop-off ... Something is definitely wrong, and it needs to be addressed ..

boogiewithstu2007 said:

Was reading the paper this morning... It staggering how much our defense has falling off... We were -1 in turnovers this season, we were plus-20 in 2013 ... I think it's obvious we had to drop off somewhat from that, we had an historical defense in 2013, but NOT this much of a drop-off ... Something is definitely wrong, and it needs to be addressed ..

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Mostly pass defense I believe. Seahawks haven't found a good CB opposite Sherman and Shermans play has fell off also IMO. Some thing is up with him behind the curtain, he's been a distraction this season. Losing Thomas obliviously hurt a lot, however I didn't feel he was at his best this season either. Losing Irvin hurt, because nobody step up to replace him. These problems can be addressed this off season hopefully.

WizardHawk said:

It's criminal what this front office has done in neglecting the offensive line.

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Agreed. They put lineman out there who never played football, and the rest are scrubs.

This is not Tom Cable's fault.

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

we cant keep putting the same offense out there, its stagnant and not working. something has got to change.

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Yes we can, and probably will.

Seriously, if some of you are that into high offense you probably want to change which team you follow. The Seahawks aren't offense first, haven't been since Holmgren left, and are not going to be as long as Carroll is their HC. You would save your frustration by going with another team because things aren't going to change the way you want them any time soon.

I have clearly said I have no faith at all they will fix that offense this off season. I've seen no reason to believe it's a priority for them and never has been.

But they really don't have to make massive changes to it to keep winning. Yes, KEEP winning. 10 wins and a playoff win this year is a winning season, even if it fell short of the goals. Losing Thomas hurt their chances. I'd say killed them.

If you all really want to look at a coordinator to get rid of, upgrading at DC would probably provide a lot more overall benefit than changing out Bevell. KR has not been good for this team. The defense under his leadership has dropped substantially. Questionable coverages, communication problems, etc.

sure we can put the same offense out there, but we will continue to decline. if we want to put out a garbage offense, then trade wilson, trade graham and put all resources into the defense.

surely a cheap QB can score 3 points on the road like we did against LA and tampa. why waste $22 million on that position when it clearly does nothing for us?

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

sure we can put the same offense out there, but we will continue to decline. if we want to put out a garbage offense, then trade wilson, trade graham and put all resources into the defense.

surely a cheap QB can score 3 points on the road like we did against LA and tampa. why waste $22 million on that position when it clearly does nothing for us?

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I say the injuries on offense are a major reason for the offense struggling. Wilson, Rawls, Prosise and Lockett that a lot of major pieces that were injured this season, if the Seahawks do nothing, but have better luck with health they'll be better next season. However I fully expect the Seahawks to add players for both sides of the ball this off season.

Easy answers.

boogiewithstu2007 said:

What do you think about Kris Rashard ? I liked his passion today when they were down, showed some fire, but he's getting out coached, OC are abusing his schemes... When I saw Avril guarding a slant receiver on that HUGE 3rd down I about lost it... Also the constant blown coverages under his leadership, I mean even if we have less talent we can still have discipline at least...

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I like Kris Richards but he needs to get his shit together. He had the Dan Quinn blue print right in front of him and but has fallen back on the Gus Bradley blue print which can work but frustrating to watch. The sad thing is one person lost can make a difference. 7-3-1 with ET and 3-2 w/o ET. Richards needed to find a way to adjust to ET's loss but it seemed like he never did and it costed us a second round home game. I hope yr 3 under Richards will be better.

jerseyhawksfan79 said:

I like Kris Richards but he needs to get his shit together. He had the Dan Quinn blue print right in front of him and but has fallen back on the Gus Bradley blue print which can work but frustrating to watch

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Richardson was the secondary coach for the Seahawks for years, I don't think his schemes are any different then those before him, he will acquainted with what worked and what didn't. IMO the secondary just hasn't been the same since the NFC championship 2014 vs the Packers. The secondary got decimated with injuries, major injuries and I don't think the injured players have ever gotten back to what they were prior to the injuries. Thus you see soft zones, because we don't have the personal to go man to man anymore. Sherman can be beat and does get beat and the other side is in worse shape with CB play. IDK if I'm imaging things, but it just seems like our secondary can't keep up with top tier receivers any more.