tOfficial 2015 NBA Draft/Free Agency Thread

TurnUpTheHeat · Jul 31, 2015

OutlawImmortal said:
1. Why not just say that then? Instead of saying they plan to compete for 8 championships. I have said this in the past, that statement was a slap in the face to all teams in the league. Basically saying "ya'll can't stop us". Arrogance.

2. Why doesn't it happen every year then? Oh yeah, because players don't fiend for the spotlight as much as him.

3. Okay.

4. And he got a tattoo that says it. The Clippers hated the moniker lob city, if he were truly modest then he would have hated that nickname too.

5. Okay.

6. You could always say "I won't make excuses, we simply didn't play well enough to win". James and his fans can't seem to do that.

I appreciate you trying to "correct" me but there's nothing that needs to be corrected. You're simply making excuses for the guy. You agree that he is an arrogant prick, so I shouldn't hold his Finals losses against him because? Or are you just defending his time with the Heat for absolutely no reason?

1. In real life, real time, it was said in fun. We can all see the video/atmosphere.
If I were reading just a transcript I'd prob agree with you.

2. It doesn't happen, because no player has ever come close to drawing the attention he does during FA periods, so nobody would be offered the opportunity.

4. Nobody ever said he was modest, or even doesn't like 'The King', all I said was that he didn't create it.

6. YOU said he used injuries as the reason they lost. He didn't.

And, what "excuse" did I make?
Didn't defend anything either, clarify would be a better word choice.
Plus, I never said you or anyone else should or shouldn't do anything.
I just offered my opinion and the reason for the opinion.
You and the others are certainly entitled to yours.

Black Adam · Jul 31, 2015

LAD said:
Honestly, I don't follow football so couldn't possibly give any type of accurate debate on either Eli or Peyton. And for the record, don't really care to since I don't enjoy football.

that's COMMUNISM, woman... :lol:

DJ · Jul 31, 2015

TGIF.

Black Adam · Jul 31, 2015

OutlawImmortal said:
It's arrogance no matter how you slice it. This is the same guy who made a TV show out of his free agency, believes his friends should be right behind the bench, takes escorts from off-duty police officers, and calls himself the King. I don't know where you see the modesty, instead of saying that he did not perform well enough to win he went on and on about injuries being the reason why the Cavs lost.

Guess what? a "King" doesn't go 2-4 in the Finals. His consistent arrogant actions are the reason why his record in the Finals should matter. It should matter to him more than the fans who say that his losses mean nothing, but I bet he makes the same excuses his fans do.

Thought the same thing when i first heard that rot a few years back. Telling everyone how he truly believed it and how "easy" it was gonna be disgusted me. imo he should've let his game do the talking like all the other greats. Just sayin'...

Now do i believe he learned from it? yes the guy's arrogant, not stupid...

Heatles84 · Jul 31, 2015

Shanemansj13 said:
At that time in point, he could have been in the discussion to be on that list. And yes, many people thought this same thing 2 years ago.

No. I've never heard anyone consider Love a top 5 player at any point. Most (or people who have common sense) were aware that he was on a subpar team where he would get a lot of touches and some of his stats were inflated because of it. Plus he practically plays defense. He's basically Chris Bosh but a lesser defender, but better rebounder. No way does that make him top 5, hell, not even top 10.

Heatles84 · Jul 31, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
Find/name one person here who EVER said James was better or equal to Jordan.

To be fair, we're counting the years that Jordan was still maturing as well as Pippen. Once Jordan got past the Pistons, he dominated the league in the 90's. It's the only time you flat out knew the Bulls were going to win the title. The latter is why I consider Jordan the greatest.

Heatles84 · Jul 31, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
You don't have to follow anything.
You only seem to care about results from championship games.

So, if Peyton is 1-2 and Eli is 2-0, you have to believe Eli is the better player when clearly he isn't.

To be fair. One player doesn't have the impact on football that you can have in basketball. You could throw Peyton Manning on any team and they would be a contender. However, if the offense has a shit o-line, Peyton will likely be ineffective, like most QB's would. Or, if he has a defense that is similar to swiss cheese. It's comparing apples to oranges.

TurnUpTheHeat · Jul 31, 2015

Heatles84 said:
To be fair. One player doesn't have the impact on football that you can have in basketball. You could throw Peyton Manning on any team and they would be a contender. However, if the offense has a shit o-line, Peyton will likely be ineffective, like most QB's would. Or, if he has a defense that is similar to swiss cheese. It's comparing apples to oranges.

I agree.
However, I only posted Super Bowl records, so there is no doubt they were all good teams.

I was continually being told that results on 'the biggest stage' were THE measuring stick, and what separates one player from another in 'who is/was better' conversations.

It's not though IMO, it's just one part of the equation.

trojanfan12 · Aug 1, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
Eli's not an all time great carreer wise, but if you are talking post season his stats are prob as good or better then anyone if my memory serves me correctly.

Actually, like Horry, his overall playoff stats are fairly average. His overall quarterback rating in 3 of his 5 playoff seasons is actually a good bit lower than his regular season quarterback rating. However, like with Horry, there are those "moments" and in the 2 seasons where the Giants won the Super Bowl, his quarterback rating is well above his regular season rating.

Basically, Eli is an average NFL quarterback who has had 2 great playoff runs.

trojanfan12 · Aug 1, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
I agree.
However, I only posted Super Bowl records, so there is no doubt they were all good teams.

I was continually being told that results on 'the biggest stage' were THE measuring stick, and what separates one player from another in 'who is/was better' conversations.

It's not though IMO, it's just one part of the equation.

That's because it is what separates them when you are talking about all time greats. In your Manning example, Peyton is an all time great, Eli isn't in that conversation. Just as Horry has more rings than MJ, Kareem, Kobe, etc. but isn't in the all time greats conversation.

When we insist on ranking all time greats, their overall stats are all so similar, that we have to find something to use as the "tiebreaker" or "final measuring stick." The all time greats themselves seem to have accepted rings as the tiebreaker and they did that before Lebron came along and people started wanting to add things like "how many times they made the finals," "whether or not their team had injuries" and "whether or not their team was favored." If the players we are ranking don't use those, why would we?

DJ · Aug 1, 2015

trojanfan12 said:
Actually, like Horry, his overall playoff stats are fairly average. His overall quarterback rating in 3 of his 5 playoff seasons is actually a good bit lower than his regular season quarterback rating. However, like with Horry, there are those "moments" and in the 2 seasons where the Giants won the Super Bowl, his quarterback rating is well above his regular season rating.

Basically, Eli is an average NFL quarterback who has had 2 great playoff runs.

100% accurate.

TurnUpTheHeat · Aug 1, 2015

trojanfan12 said:
Actually, like Horry, his overall playoff stats are fairly average. His overall quarterback rating in 3 of his 5 playoff seasons is actually a good bit lower than his regular season quarterback rating. However, like with Horry, there are those "moments" and in the 2 seasons where the Giants won the Super Bowl, his quarterback rating is well above his regular season rating.

Basically, Eli is an average NFL quarterback who has had 2 great playoff runs.

The Most Clutch Postseason Quarterback Of All Time Is Eli Manning | FiveThirtyEight

I'm certainly no fan of James or Eli (unless I use him in fantasy).
Plus football is different since it's one and done vs a 7 game series which allows room for error.
People just evaluate things in different ways, and most people will use the stats that favor the players they favor.

With James, his 4 losses occurred on a Cavs team that had no business being there, a Dallas team we prob should have beat, a Spurs team there was no way we were beating, and the Warriors when his chances were greatly diminished because of his 2 next players being out.

At the end of the day, it does add up to 2-4 vs 6-0 but as far as individual players, yes, Jordan is better but the difference isn't near as significant as their Finals records would indicate IMO.

trojanfan12 · Aug 1, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
The Most Clutch Postseason Quarterback Of All Time Is Eli Manning | FiveThirtyEight

I'm certainly no fan of James or Eli (unless I use him in fantasy).
Plus football is different since it's one and done vs a 7 game series which allows room for error.
People just evaluate things in different ways, and most people will use the stats that favor the players they favor.

With James, his 4 losses occurred on a Cavs team that had no business being there, a Dallas team we prob should have beat, a Spurs team there was no way we were beating, and the Warriors when his chances were greatly diminished because of his 2 next players being out.

At the end of the day, it does add up to 2-4 vs 6-0 but as far as individual players, yes, Jordan is better but the difference isn't near as significant as their Finals records would indicate IMO.

The article basically shows my point. He's had 2 amazing playoff runs. His overall QB rating for the regular season is 82.4. In 2 of his 5 playoff appearances he has ratings of 35.0 and 40.7, he had another playoff season of slightly above his overall average of 82.4 (85.6). However, in his 2 Super Bowl seasons his ratings skyrocketed to 95.7 for his first Super Bowl and 103.3 in his second.

Outside of those 2 seasons, he's average. I'll bet Robert Horry is pretty high on the list of clutch playoff/finals players as well. Still doesn't put him in a conversation about all time greats.

As to the bold, that's exactly what I've been saying. The individual numbers among the all-time greats are so similar that there has to be a tiebreaker and that tiebreaker is titles.

It doesn't matter why Lebron has lost 4 times, just as it doesn't matter why Magic lost 4 times. Of Magic's 4 finals losses, 2 were with teams that had injuries (in one of them, Magic himself only played in 1 game), 1 was with a team that had no business being there (they didn't even win the Pacific Division) and in 1, they lost to a Celtics team that just played better. None of that gets taken into consideration for him and it doesn't get taken into consideration for Lebron.

TurnUpTheHeat · Aug 1, 2015

trojanfan12 said:
The article basically shows my point. He's had 2 amazing playoff runs. His overall QB rating for the regular season is 82.4. In 2 of his 5 playoff appearances he has ratings of 35.0 and 40.7, he had another playoff season of slightly above his overall average of 82.4 (85.6). However, in his 2 Super Bowl seasons his ratings skyrocketed to 95.7 for his first Super Bowl and 103.3 in his second.

Outside of those 2 seasons, he's average. I'll bet Robert Horry is pretty high on the list of clutch playoff/finals players as well. Still doesn't put him in a conversation about all time greats.

As to the bold, that's exactly what I've been saying. The individual numbers among the all-time greats are so similar that there has to be a tiebreaker and that tiebreaker is titles.

It doesn't matter why Lebron has lost 4 times, just as it doesn't matter why Magic lost 4 times. Of Magic's 4 finals losses, 2 were with teams that had injuries (in one of them, Magic himself only played in 1 game), 1 was with a team that had no business being there (they didn't even win the Pacific Division) and in 1, they lost to a Celtics team that just played better. None of that gets taken into consideration for him and it doesn't get taken into consideration for Lebron.

In some conversations it works and in others it doesn't.
On almost any all time PF lists you will see Barkley/Malone in the top 5, who between them have 0 titles.

trojanfan12 · Aug 1, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
In some conversations it works and in others it doesn't.
On almost any all time PF lists you will see Barkley/Malone in the top 5, who between them have 0 titles.

True. You don't see Barkley or Malone in GOAT conversations, but they are definitely in the greatest PF conversation.

wildturkey · Aug 1, 2015

Anybody happen to see The Basketball Tournament on ESPN today? I was watching today when former top 10 pick/Bulls player Mike Sweetney checked in to the game and...holy shit. He looked like an offensive lineman running around out there. I remember his Georgetown days and he was sorta big but he is like twice that size now.

ManuForever · Aug 2, 2015

wildturkey said:
Anybody happen to see The Basketball Tournament on ESPN today? I was watching today when former top 10 pick/Bulls player Mike Sweetney checked in to the game and...holy shit. He looked like an offensive lineman running around out there. I remember his Georgetown days and he was sorta big but he is like twice that size now.

I've been checking that out but haven't really been paying any attention. Is it just a random thrown-together tournament or is it actually for something like charity?

wildturkey · Aug 2, 2015

TheKlaw said:
I've been checking that out but haven't really been paying any attention. Is it just a random thrown-together tournament or is it actually for something like charity?

It's a competition for 1 million dollars (the winning team splits it). The teams can be made up of any players that aren't in the NBA so there were teams with former college players, some D-Leaguers, some players from overseas, other semi-pro players, and some former NBA players that washed out. There aren't many restrictions best I can tell. Guys just get together and decide to form a team. Then if they get enough fan votes, they are entered into the tournament. From the games I saw, it was fairly entertaining.

TBT | The Basketball Tournament

bksballer89 · Aug 2, 2015

The offseason is done for me. The only other thing I'm looking forward to is schedule release. After that my attention will be placed on football

LAD · Aug 4, 2015

TurnUpTheHeat said:
I agree.
However, I only posted Super Bowl records, so there is no doubt they were all good teams.

I was continually being told that results on 'the biggest stage' were THE measuring stick, and what separates one player from another in 'who is/was better' conversations.

It's not though IMO, it's just one part of the equation.

I think you were confused. The measurement was being used because they BOTH have Finals records. Very simple.

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