2018 NBA offseason

tlance said:

Yep.

Turner WAS a budding star 2 years ago. He isn't as exciting anymore. It is possible he still develops, but more likely that he will be an above average starter, not a star.

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Which is fine considering he's a mid-1st round pick. He's living up to where he was drafted at, and by no means is anywhere near a bust.

But Wiggy trying to make it sound like he'll be an all star is hilarious.

WiggyRuss said:

i guess you dont realize there are ways to go over the cap if you will spend the money---- but Arison was more interested in protecting his pocket book.

Obviously you just cant go out and sign guys in free agency- but if you have a gm that can pull it off and an owner that is willing to foot the bill you can almost always make some kind of improvements. Ya know- like the ZERO improvements the Heat made this offseason since Riley hamstrung his team and left them with ZERO cap space and ZERO draft picks.

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Yeah.....the Heat had to trade all of its draft picks to Toronto and Cleveland to facilitate a sign and trade to allow Bosh and Lebron to get a 6th year in their contracts.

Mike Miller for what his contract was worth luxury tax wise wasn't worth it considering we had Allen, Battier and Lewis as 3-point specialists on the team; and whom actually could play and stay healthy unlike Miller. Joel Anthony had a contract that the Heat got off the books and sacrificed a 1st round pick to get rid of. Rookies seldom work out and the Heat at the time were in win-now mode. The Heat during those 4 years were in the luxury tax and didn't really have much room to make improvements. Four finals and two titles says the Heat didn't have to do much to improve the team.

Meanwhile, we've seen instances before where Gilbert could've spent the money while Lebron was there and we pointed it out to you. Your response was that Gilbert's being smart with his money.

You're a hypocrite. That's all that needs to be said.

WiggyRuss said:

I think hes DEFINITELY top 50 player, maybe top 35-40 player in basketball. I would CERTAINLY not call that a "support player".

He was arguably the best player on a team that got the 1 seed in the East last night considering Kyrie's injury status for a decent amount of the year.

"support"?

that is so fucking stupid.

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He isn't a star so what is he?

WiggyRuss said:

AL Horford averaged 15.7 pts, 8.3 boards, 3.3 assists, 1.3 blocks per game in the postseason last year.

He was probably the Celtics best player in the first two series arguably with Tatum.

He arguably was the best player on their team during the regular season when the team was the #1 seed

He has made FIVE all star teams- including LAST YEARS All Star game. He has been an All Star 3 out of the last 4 years.

calling him a support player is fucking BEYOND idiotic.


Al Horford Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

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Is Al Horford a star

Heatles84 said:

Yeah.....the Heat had to trade all of its draft picks to Toronto and Cleveland to facilitate a sign and trade to allow Bosh and Lebron to get a 6th year in their contracts.

Mike Miller for what his contract was worth luxury tax wise wasn't worth it considering we had Allen, Battier and Lewis as 3-point specialists on the team; and whom actually could play and stay healthy unlike Miller. Joel Anthony had a contract that the Heat got off the books and sacrificed a 1st round pick to get rid of. Rookies seldom work out and the Heat at the time were in win-now mode. The Heat during those 4 years were in the luxury tax and didn't really have much room to make improvements. Four finals and two titles says the Heat didn't have to do much to improve the team.

Meanwhile, we've seen instances before where Gilbert could've spent the money while Lebron was there and we pointed it out to you. Your response was that Gilbert's being smart with his money.

You're a hypocrite. That's all that needs to be said.

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calling GIlbert cheap when he spent more money than any owner in the HISTORY of the league over the last 4 years is pretty funny. lol. I mean - did you actually think about what you just wrote?

Gilbert has spent more in one year in luxury tax than Arison has during his ENTIRE tenure as owner of the Heat. Thats a fact.

Heatles84 said:

Which is fine considering he's a mid-1st round pick. He's living up to where he was drafted at, and by no means is anywhere near a bust.

But Wiggy trying to make it sound like he'll be an all star is hilarious.

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i absolutely think that Turner will be an all star once he hits his prime. At least a couple times if not more.

WiggyRuss said:

i absolutely think that Turner will be an all star once he hits his prime. At least a couple times if not more.

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You really overvalue this whole "When this player hits his prime nonsense". From a stats perspective, he actually went down in his 3rd year. Every player also has their ceiling and Turner may have already hit it or is close to hitting it. There's no point in having a further discussion on it because it's just guessing/hoping at this point rather than throwing out factual information to the topic at hand.

But calling him a budding star is absolutely ridiculous. Because if you can do it with Turner, than theoretically I can do it with Bam or Justise Winslow (who's the exact same age as Turner).

WiggyRuss said:

calling GIlbert cheap when he spent more money than any owner in the HISTORY of the league over the last 4 years is pretty funny. lol. I mean - did you actually think about what you just wrote?

Gilbert has spent more in one year in luxury tax than Arison has during his ENTIRE tenure as owner of the Heat. Thats a fact.

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Think that has anything to do with the cap going up?

Also, how much do you think that had to do with Lebron having his annual opt outs. Because we saw that once Lebron signed a multi-year deal, ol' Danny boy got lazy/cheap.

And if Gilbert's always willing to outspend the league and put the best product on the court. Why is Lebron not in Cleveland anymore?

Heatles84 said:

You really overvalue this whole "When this player hits his prime nonsense". From a stats perspective, he actually went down in his 3rd year. Every player also has their ceiling and Turner may have already hit it or is close to hitting it. There's no point in having a further discussion on it because it's just guessing/hoping at this point rather than throwing out factual information to the topic at hand.

But calling him a budding star is absolutely ridiculous. Because if you can do it with Turner, than theoretically I can do it with Bam or Justise Winslow (who's the exact same age as Turner).

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hey you can say whatever you want-- youll be wrong but you can say whatever you want. lol

I just think Turner is going to break out eventually. He is 6' 11", can shoot the 3 a little, can play some D, can block some shots, and is fast enough to switch the pick and roll. If you want to say Bam is going to be better than him you are more than welcome too and ill laugh at you a few years from now when its proven just how wrong you were.

i just think its pretty rare to see a big with a decent outside shooting touch so young, that can also block shots, and is fast enough to switch. I think he is going to be good. Is it guaranteed? of course not- we shall see. I have a great feeling a big ole #time vindicates will eventually be posted by me on the issue down the line.

WiggyRuss said:

hey you can say whatever you want-- youll be wrong but you can say whatever you want. lol

I just think Turner is going to break out eventually. He is 6' 11", can shoot the 3 a little, can play some D, can block some shots, and is fast enough to switch the pick and roll. If you want to say Bam is going to be better than him you are more than welcome too and ill laugh at you a few years from now when its proven just how wrong you were.

i just think its pretty rare to see a big with a decent outside shooting touch so young, that can also block shots, and is fast enough to switch. I think he is going to be good. Is it guaranteed? of course not- we shall see. I have a great feeling a big ole #time vindicates will eventually be posted by me on the issue down the line.

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I wouldn't go there. Your record for time vindicates is about as bad as the Browns record the last 2 years.

Turner, last year, was 5th in the league in blocks in his age 21 season- the guys above him- Davis, Porzingis, Gobert and CApela- not bad company. His 3 sample size is pretty small--- 2.4 attempts per game- but, in his age 21 season to be one of the best shot blockers, a 78% FT shooter, and 36% from 3 is pretty impressive. As I said- small sample size so i am not putting TOO much stock into his 3 pt shooting- but it bodes very well going forward.

The previous season, his age 20 season- he was third in the league in blocks behind Gobert and Davis.

I see a guy that is still filling out, can shoot about as well as i have seen a young big man shoot coming out of college, and can block shots about as well as anyone big man in the last few years coming out of college (if not the best), has the agility and athleticism to switch the pick and roll.

He has a lot of work to go to be a star- but when I see a guy at the age of 20 and 21 show an adapatability to shot blocking and 3 pt shooting- that gets me excited for him as a player--- almost/kind of like a poor-man's Embiid.

Bam? 0.6 blocks a game and cant shoot a 3 to save his life. Honestly a better comparison than TT is simply not out there- they are practically the same guy except Bam wasnt as good his rookie year as TT was. Both are just high level garbagemen.

tlance said:

This is especially funny considering just a couple months ago you were talking about how mediocre Horford was after he got shut down a couple times by TT. Now you want to imply he is a star because it fits your narrative of the day.

LOL. That is some clown stuff right there.

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Yeah, Wiggy was talking major shit about him in the playoffs when the Celtics were making their deep playoff run without2 of their best players.

quite simply- in his age 21 season- Turner was the 2nd best player on a team that won 48 games, was top 5 in the league in blocks, and showed he might have a decent 3 pt shot. Sounds pretty good to me.

WiggyRuss said:

Bam? 0.6 blocks a game and cant shoot a 3 to save his life. Honestly a better comparison than TT is simply not out there- they are practically the same guy except Bam wasnt as good his rookie year as TT was. Both are just high level garbagemen.

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Bam played less minutes than TT given the former joined a playoff roster his rookie year while TT was joining a team post-Lebron. Bam also had the higher FG and FT% as well.

Bam's only 21 and younger than Turner. Not saying Bam would be better than him. But why does the whole "not in his prime yet" factor in for one player but not the other? Does it have something to do with the uniform that the respective player wears? The irony is is that Bam also finished with a higher FG and FT% than that of Turner in his respective rookie year as well. I have no idea what player Bam's going to turn into. But I also don't walk around saying that this guy is going to be a budding all star either.

You also highly value Ben Simmons (who's a really good player). But that guy can't even take a shot 10+ feet from the basket. So I'm waiting to hear your spin on that one.

You're a literal walking contradiction.

Heatles84 said:

Bam played less minutes than TT given the former joined a playoff roster his rookie year while TT was joining a team post-Lebron. Bam also had the higher FG and FT% as well.

Bam's only 21 and younger than Turner. Not saying Bam would be better than him. But why does the whole "not in his prime yet" factor in for one player but not the other? Does it have something to do with the uniform that the respective player wears? The irony is is that Bam also finished with a higher FG and FT% than that of Turner in his respective rookie year as well. I have no idea what player Bam's going to turn into. But I also don't walk around saying that this guy is going to be a budding all star either.

You also highly value Ben Simmons (who's a really good player). But that guy can't even take a shot 10+ feet from the basket. So I'm waiting to hear your spin on that one.

You're a literal walking contradiction.

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when did i ever say that it did?

if you think he is going to be better go out and say it instead of pussy footing around it scared to actually make a prediction. All you are doing is spewing nonsense and bullshit that doesnt mean anything

I think Turner is going t obe better than Bam when its all said and done in their careers and im not afraid to say it unlike you who seems afraid to actually make a prediction and would rather parse words.

The funny thing is- you know I am right--- there probably isnt a better player to compare Bam to than TT. Turner IS probably going to be a better player than Bam.

Heatles84 said:

Bam played less minutes than TT given the former joined a playoff roster his rookie year while TT was joining a team post-Lebron. Bam also had the higher FG and FT% as well.

Bam's only 21 and younger than Turner. Not saying Bam would be better than him. But why does the whole "not in his prime yet" factor in for one player but not the other? Does it have something to do with the uniform that the respective player wears? The irony is is that Bam also finished with a higher FG and FT% than that of Turner in his respective rookie year as well. I have no idea what player Bam's going to turn into. But I also don't walk around saying that this guy is going to be a budding all star either.

You also highly value Ben Simmons (who's a really good player). But that guy can't even take a shot 10+ feet from the basket. So I'm waiting to hear your spin on that one.

You're a literal walking contradiction.

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and Ben Simmons?

hes either the best or 2nd best player on a team that won a playoff series last year and he did it at the age of 21. Hes already probably a top 25 player in the league. Do you dispute that? or is this just more bullshit?

by all means if you think Bam can make up for his bad out side shooting by going for 16 8 and 8 like Simmons and leading his team to a playoff series win- go ahead and say it! lol.

it just comes down to you are afraid to make any kind of prediction because you know im right.

WiggyRuss said:

quite simply- in his age 21 season- Turner was the 2nd best player on a team that won 48 games, was top 5 in the league in blocks, and showed he might have a decent 3 pt shot. Sounds pretty good to me.

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Um, 2.4 3 FGA's.....correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm not) but if this were a Laker or Heat player, or any team you don't like......you'd be poo poo'ing it.....

DJ said:

Um, 2.4 3 FGA's.....correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm not) but if this were a Laker or Heat player, or any team you don't like......you'd be poo poo'ing it.....

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im poo-pooing it with Turner too or cant you read? Literacy not a strong suit? lol

His 3 sample size is pretty small--- 2.4 attempts per game- but, in his age 21 season to be one of the best shot blockers, a 78% FT shooter, and 36% from 3 is pretty impressive. As I said- small sample size so i am not putting TOO much stock into his 3 pt shooting- but it bodes very well going forward.

and showed he might have a decent 3 pt shot