Interesting

Shoeshine Boy · Jul 23, 2018

BigKen said:
The per game suspensions are not written into the PED regulations (not a policy). The suspension is at the pleasure of the Commissioner or his assign. As it is with everything else in the NFL.

1000% wrong. The suspensions are fixed, it is written policy, the commissioner has nothing to do with determining the size of them, and he has not been the arbiter for appeals of PED suspensions since 2014.

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

In all honesty JE would have been better off just saying something to the effect of, " During my injury and recovery process I mistakenly took a supplement I was not aware was a banned sunstance". " I want to apologize to this team and my teamates, I will accept what ever actions the league feel is appropriate". I mean it's not as if he didn't know he took something, he wasn't even disputing that, he was trying dispute the way the sample was handled. A cop out for the most part.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
It makes sense in a lot of peoples world less blind homers. If the masking agent worked then there is not proof a PED was taken only a masking agent. The know the chemical makeup of what JE took was a PED. How this escapes you baffles me.

And I am not angry at all, I am however tired of Patriots Fans acting as if this team or it's players do not cheat. They do cheat, they have been caught an penalized multiple times for cheating. It's time for fans to stop making excuses, stop rationalizing and come to the realization that this organization and it's players cheat. Plain and Simple, accept it and move on.

Feel better now? Rant away. You're so angry you're arguing with yourself. Again I haven't said JE did or didn't take anything. That's up to you to ASSume what I may be thinking.

So a player just takes a masking agent for no reason? Are you being serious with this crap you're spewing? It's the same thing as any urinalysis. If you dilute your sample you're guilty. If anything you should get a bigger suspension for cheating twice.

What they know is the substance JE took resembles a chemical make up of a PED. Yet they don't know what it is?

Argue all you want. Only in your and Rogers world, maybe a couple other really special people would believe taking a PED should get a larger penalty than someone taking a PED and a masking agent. Talk about cheating. Get off your high horse.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
In all honesty JE would have been better off just saying something to the effect of, " During my injury and recovery process I mistakenly took a supplement I was not aware was a banned sunstance". " I want to apologize to this team and my teamates, I will accept what ever actions the league feel is appropriate". I mean it's not as if he didn't know he took something, he wasn't even disputing that, he was trying dispute the way the sample was handled. A cop out for the most part.

Have you ever had to give a urine sample?
Have you ever been responsible for the collection process and the protocol that goes along with it?
I have and if there is anything inconsistent with the chain of custody the sample is thrown out, period.

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
Feel better now? Rant away. You're so angry you're arguing with yourself. Again I haven't said JE did or didn't take anything. That's up to you to ASSume what I may be thinking.

So a player just takes a masking agent for no reason? Are you being serious with this crap you're spewing? It's the same thing as any urinalysis. If you dilute your sample you're guilty. If anything you should get a bigger suspension for cheating twice.

What they know is the substance JE took resembles a chemical make up of a PED. Yet they don't know what it is?

Argue all you want. Only in your and Rogers world, maybe a couple other really special people would believe taking a PED should get a larger penalty than someone taking a PED and a masking agent. Talk about cheating. Get off your high horse.

As I stated earlier I'm not angry, I am sure that is your meager attempt to goad me into some argument you want to stir up, but it's simply not the truth. I never implied you did say what JE took or did not take, but you are questioning the suspension which is obvious if you pay attention.

Nowhere did I say a player took a masking agent for nothing, I challenge you to link that fabricated drivel. And where does it state if a sample shows a masking agent it's an admission of guilt or an implication of guilt? It is true however if there are no traces of chemicals known to be those found in PEDs one can't be guilty of them. How does this not make sense to you? I would agree the league should instate a rule or policy that specifies stricter punishments for masking agents, but currently this does not appear to be the case.

I am not arguing just stating facts as we know them and personal opinions on the subject. I'm not on any kind of high horse, not at all.

Fact, we know JE tested positive for chemicals known to be those consistent with PED usage.
Fact, we know these cases are covered by the league and not directly the Commish.
Fact, we know JE didn't dispute the fact he took something only the way the sample was handled.
Fact, we know JE did break the rules and serving his suspension with he swore to fight. ( LOL )
Fact, we now know you are acting like a blind, obtuse homer incapable of seeing this for what it is.

Yet, I'm the angry one? Oyy!

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
Have you ever had to give a urine sample?
Have you ever been responsible for the collection process and the protocol that goes along with it?
I have and if there is anything inconsistent with the chain of custody the sample is thrown out, period.

I have given lot's of urine samples was required to in the military. And you can whine all you want about the chain of custody, but it was appealed by JE and his lawyers and still he sits for four games.

He's guilty dude, honestly accept it and move on. You sound as if you are about to stroke out.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
I have given lot's of urine samples was required to in the military. And you can whine all you want about the chain of custody, but it was appealed by JE and his lawyers and still he sits for four games.

He's guilty dude, honestly accept it and move on. You sound as if you are about to stroke out.

Then you should know that if a sample was mishandled in anyway it's thrown out.
Keeping arguing with yourself.
Starting to sound like maybe you pissed hot and got booted? A lot of resentment coming thru your posts. I pity your keyboard.

Shoeshine Boy · Jul 23, 2018

They argued the paperwork was mishandled, not the sample.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

Shoeshine Boy said:
They argued the paperwork was mishandled, not the sample.

It's all part of the chain of custody. Any irregularities with the sample, the bottle, the security tape, the paperwork... is treated as a mishandled sample and thrown out.

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
Then you should know that if a sample was mishandled in anyway it's thrown out.
Keeping arguing with yourself.
Starting to sound like maybe you pissed hot and got booted? A lot of resentment coming thru your posts. I pity your keyboard.

Okay lets break this down, I'll type slow so you can keep up.

JE and team claimed it was mishandled, and chose to appeal. You still with me?
The appeal was denied, and the suspension was upheld. Breath into a bag now!
JE decided to not pursuit any further. It'll be okay help is on the way, keep calm, elevate your feet.

Seems pretty damn obvious it was not mishandled that it was a weak attempt to try and circumvent the punishment. Again, accept it and move on the man is guilty.

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
It's all part of the chain of custody. Any irregularities with the sample, the bottle, the security tape, the paperwork... is treated as a mishandled sample and thrown out.

Well that does not appear to be the case skippy.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
Okay lets break this down, I'll type slow so you can keep up.

JE and team claimed it was mishandled, and chose to appeal. You still with me?
The appeal was denied, and the suspension was upheld. Breath into a bag now!
JE decided to not pursuit any further. It'll be okay help is on the way, keep calm, elevate your feet.

Seems pretty damn obvious it was not mishandled that it was a weak attempt to try and circumvent the punishment. Again, accept it and move on the man is guilty.

Your sarcasm lost any credibility after this gem.

You shouldn't be so angry.

PS

Do you need any help moving those goal posts? I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out what you're arguing?

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
Well that does not appear to be the case skippy.

That's because it's the court of Goodell where nothing makes sense.

Man you're hangry quick do us all a favor and get that Snickers.

BigKen · Jul 23, 2018

All I've ever said is that an "unknown" substance is not the substance.

I take 13 different medications every day. Heart, BP, Diabetes and I take 6 supplements and vitamins to help make the drugs work better for me. I inject long acting insulin twice a day and short term insulin three times a day.

One of the diabetic oral meds, eats up every bit of my Vitamin B and Vitamin D. I took a daily vitamin the gave me more than 200% of the daily requirement, but it wasn't enough, so now I take supplemental B and D 1000x more than the daily, but my levels are now "normal".

My point with JE is that his urine was taken in 2017. In 2018 it was announced (illegally) that he had an unknown substance in his urine. Right there and then, the league should have asked for a blood sample to determine what the substance was and if it was in his blood stream. No, some person in the NFL office, most likely a Patriot hater, decided to leak the story. Once it hit the media, the NFL made the decision to suspend and NOT, complete the investigation.

Here we are, 7-1/2 months later and the NFL still doesn't know exactly what JE has in his body. Is that substance illegal? They don't know, they assume it's similar to, but not the same as an illegal PED. Like @YankeeRebel says, the patriots are cheater so screw it, no need to find the TRUTH, suspend his ass and it's over.

My only bitch is that he got suspend for a suspected drug in his body that appears to be something similar to a PED. I, ME, BigKen, thinks that the NFL should have and now should get a blood sample and determine if the substance is illegal or not. If they still can't determine it, then suspend him 2 games for a "similar" unknown sample. But take enough blood to have at least 3 different labratories examine it.

3 unknowns still don't make a known, but the warning will be out there and anyone else who takes it, won't be surprised.

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
That's because it's the court of Goodell where nothing makes sense.

Man you're hangry quick do us all a favor and get that Snickers.

Okay so let's get this straight then I'm done debating with the obtuse.

The league and their team of lawyers, determined the suspension was legit, JE and his team of lawyers appealed it and were denied, and yet you want us to take your word for it.

Dude you are so lost it's simply no longer worth the effort. You keep stewing from now until game five and enjoy the rest of your day.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
Okay so let's get this straight then I'm done debating with the obtuse.

The league and their team of lawyers, determined the suspension was legit, JE and his team of lawyers appealed it and were denied, and yet you want us to take your word for it.

Dude you are so lost it's simply no longer worth the effort. You keep stewing from now until game five and enjoy the rest of your day.

Focus your anger on a reading comprehension course.

Shoeshine Boy · Jul 23, 2018

Leaks usually come from the side who stands most to benefit from it. Which side had anything to gain from the "unknown substance" angle hitting the media...the league office (highly unlikely, I'd like to see someone unpack the logic of what the benefit would be for them), the testing lab (certainly not), or the player (cue Troy Brown)?

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

BigKen said:
All I've ever said is that an "unknown" substance is not the substance.

I take 13 different medications every day. Heart, BP, Diabetes and I take 6 supplements and vitamins to help make the drugs work better for me. I inject long acting insulin twice a day and short term insulin three times a day.

One of the diabetic oral meds, eats up every bit of my Vitamin B and Vitamin D. I took a daily vitamin the gave me more than 200% of the daily requirement, but it wasn't enough, so now I take supplemental B and D 1000x more than the daily, but my levels are now "normal".

My point with JE is that his urine was taken in 2017. In 2018 it was announced (illegally) that he had an unknown substance in his urine. Right there and then, the league should have asked for a blood sample to determine what the substance was and if it was in his blood stream. No, some person in the NFL office, most likely a Patriot hater, decided to leak the story. Once it hit the media, the NFL made the decision to suspend and NOT, complete the investigation.

Here we are, 7-1/2 months later and the NFL still doesn't know exactly what JE has in his body. Is that substance illegal? They don't know, they assume it's similar to, but not the same as an illegal PED. Like @YankeeRebel says, the patriots are cheater so screw it, no need to find the TRUTH, suspend his ass and it's over.

My only bitch is that he got suspend for a suspected drug in his body that appears to be something similar to a PED. I, ME, BigKen, thinks that the NFL should have and now should get a blood sample and determine if the substance is illegal or not. If they still can't determine it, then suspend him 2 games for a "similar" unknown sample. But take enough blood to have at least 3 different labratories examine it.

3 unknowns still don't make a known, but the warning will be out there and anyone else who takes it, won't be surprised.

They Patriots are cheaters Ken this is widely known just not so much on this fanbase. The league stated and knows full well it's the same chemical makeup found in PEDs, it's cute how you and others want to skip over that little tid bit.

Im not going to argue with those so blind they can't see. The Pats do cheat as do their players, I have no issue with that at all.

BigKen · Jul 23, 2018

YankeeRebel said:
They Patriots are cheaters Ken this is widely known just not so much on this fanbase. The league stated and knows full well it's the same chemical makeup found in PEDs, it's cute how you and others want to skip over that little tid bit.

Please post the link to where the league has officially said that the substance has the same chemical makeup found in PEDs. I read 3 newspapers a day and I have never seen anything the states that. I would like to know what PED the substance has a similarity to. Maybe because I live in New England my local and the two Boston papers would never publish anything that would incriminate a Patriot player.

YankeeRebel · Jul 23, 2018

BigKen said:
Please post the link to where the league has officially said that the substance has the same chemical makeup found in PEDs. I read 3 newspapers a day and I have never seen anything the states that. I would like to know what PED the substance has a similarity to. Maybe because I live in New England my local and the two Boston papers would never publish anything that would incriminate a Patriot player.

I'll sure take a look for it, right after where show me The League said it was an unidentified substance.

Interesting

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