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Ranking the top NBA markets

msgkings322

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BTW.....what is a mission burrito?

So the main Latino district in SF is called the Mission district. That's where Mexican places started selling giant burritos wrapped in foil, that you eat with your hands vs. the traditional style on a plate usually covered in a sauce. It quickly spread throughout CA and the West Coast in general, and now chains like Chipotle do it that way too.
 
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DJ

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Washington isn't one of the top markets, and they have been horribly run for a long time. So of course they aren't getting anybody.

It isn't that Millsap is bad. The point is that a superstar player is not going to pick Minnesota or Cleveland when they have a ton of suitors willing to pay the same money. Unless, like LeBron, they have ties to the community already.
There is a reason the Cavs sucked pretty much pre-James and now post-James.

They need to hope they'll have another home grown stud sometime in the next 15 years....
 
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Now that you cant deduct state income taxes paid from your federal taxes. The teams in Florida and Texas get a big leg up, neither has a state income tax.

Top rate in California is 12%, NY and NJ 9% vs 0% isnt a small thing.

You pay the state income taxes where the games are played, so half your income is taxed in the states where you play road games. But, with a 100 million dollar payroll those teams can stick about 5ish million dollars more in players pockets.
 

trojanfan12

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Now that you cant deduct state income taxes paid from your federal taxes. The teams in Florida and Texas get a big leg up, neither has a state income tax.

Top rate in California is 12%, NY and NJ 9% vs 0% isnt a small thing.

You pay the state income taxes where the games are played, so half your income is taxed in the states where you play road games. But, with a 100 million dollar payroll those teams can stick about 5ish million dollars more in players pockets.

And?
 

trojanfan12

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Making 10 mill a year in Cali vs making 9 in florida is the same take home pay.

And?

At these guys income levels, taxes are meaningless. There is nothing an NBA player can afford in Florida that he can't in California.

The next player who uses state taxes as a reason to not sign with a team, will the first.
 

HurricaneDij39

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Washington isn't one of the top markets, and they have been horribly run for a long time. So of course they aren't getting anybody.

It isn't that Millsap is bad. The point is that a superstar player is not going to pick Minnesota or Cleveland when they have a ton of suitors willing to pay the same money. Unless, like LeBron, they have ties to the community already.
"Superstars" also change teams more frequently than they did pre-2010. Again, you're basing your entire perspective on one man's opinion, and that one man happens to be LeBron James.

The one significant star free agent to switch teams before 2010 was Steve Nash going from Dallas to Phoenix... Does he count for anything???:scratch:
 
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The next player who uses state taxes as a reason to not sign with a team, will the first.

But James, it appears, had done his homework on the tax implications.

In addition to the basketball reasons for signing with the Heat, James is going to walk away from this deal with less money in his contract but more money in his pocket. This is because Florida offers a number of tax advantages over New York -- a fact that hasn't gone unnoticed in the tax world.

Assuming that James took just under $17 million from the Heat (which is probably pretty close to accurate), he would pay no state income tax, leaving him with the same $17 million. If he had gone to New York, even if he nabbed an additional $1.5 million (as the salary difference has been speculated), he would shell out close to $1.7 million in New York state taxes. That doesn't count James' endorsements with companies like Nike, Sprint and McDonald's. Those deals are said to bring in $40 million per year for James, landing him at #19 on the Forbes list of the 100 most powerful celebrities of 2009 (just behind his idol, Michael Jordan).

The total bill? Over five years, that means James could save more than $25 million in state taxes alone by relocating to Miami over New York. And that doesn't count other taxes such as local taxes (New York has a bunch) or property taxes (on average, New Yorkers pay a bigger percentage of their income for property taxes than Floridians). In fact, overall, Florida has a fairly attractive tax picture. Compared to other states, it is ranked by the Tax Foundation as 47th in terms of state and local tax burdens; New York, on the other hand, is 2nd (just behind New Jersey, the home of the Nets, also desperate to sign James).

Is the lure of lower taxes enough to have convinced James to make the switch? Not on its own: James is too smart for that. But you can bet it figured into the equation. He would not be the first mega-star lured down to Florida for tax reasons. Prior to his legal and marital woes, Tiger Woods was said to have relocated from California to Florida primarily in order to save on taxes.

Did saving $25 million in taxes fuel LeBron James' Miami Heat pick?

......................................


He got close enough to pull off the major score. In addition to the weather and the city's attractions for young, rich athletes, Riley knew the lack of a state income tax in Florida could help him sell it.

..

That was why Riley was so amped up before his presentation to James in Cleveland a week ago. He packed up his seven championship rings, had his salary-cap specialists create displays to show how Florida taxes could save James money


Inside 'The Decision': Miami's coup was a 'surprise' built on long-coveted goal of James, Wade and Bosh

Lebron is even a bad example, he was looking big picture more than taxes then, and he was thinking about life after the NBA when he signed with the lakers.

If i'm an athlete looking at say a 20 mill career, and my choices are taking home 10 in florida vs taking home 7 in a heavy tax state, thats the easiest call in the world.
 

Scapegoat

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And?

At these guys income levels, taxes are meaningless. There is nothing an NBA player can afford in Florida that he can't in California.

The next player who uses state taxes as a reason to not sign with a team, will the first.

I don't claim to know what players think but it's an issue that comes up a lot when talking about FA salary offers.
 

trojanfan12

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But James, it appears, had done his homework on the tax implications.

In addition to the basketball reasons for signing with the Heat, James is going to walk away from this deal with less money in his contract but more money in his pocket. This is because Florida offers a number of tax advantages over New York -- a fact that hasn't gone unnoticed in the tax world.

Assuming that James took just under $17 million from the Heat (which is probably pretty close to accurate), he would pay no state income tax, leaving him with the same $17 million. If he had gone to New York, even if he nabbed an additional $1.5 million (as the salary difference has been speculated), he would shell out close to $1.7 million in New York state taxes. That doesn't count James' endorsements with companies like Nike, Sprint and McDonald's. Those deals are said to bring in $40 million per year for James, landing him at #19 on the Forbes list of the 100 most powerful celebrities of 2009 (just behind his idol, Michael Jordan).

The total bill? Over five years, that means James could save more than $25 million in state taxes alone by relocating to Miami over New York. And that doesn't count other taxes such as local taxes (New York has a bunch) or property taxes (on average, New Yorkers pay a bigger percentage of their income for property taxes than Floridians). In fact, overall, Florida has a fairly attractive tax picture. Compared to other states, it is ranked by the Tax Foundation as 47th in terms of state and local tax burdens; New York, on the other hand, is 2nd (just behind New Jersey, the home of the Nets, also desperate to sign James).

Is the lure of lower taxes enough to have convinced James to make the switch? Not on its own: James is too smart for that. But you can bet it figured into the equation. He would not be the first mega-star lured down to Florida for tax reasons. Prior to his legal and marital woes, Tiger Woods was said to have relocated from California to Florida primarily in order to save on taxes.

Did saving $25 million in taxes fuel LeBron James' Miami Heat pick?

......................................


He got close enough to pull off the major score. In addition to the weather and the city's attractions for young, rich athletes, Riley knew the lack of a state income tax in Florida could help him sell it.

..

That was why Riley was so amped up before his presentation to James in Cleveland a week ago. He packed up his seven championship rings, had his salary-cap specialists create displays to show how Florida taxes could save James money


Inside 'The Decision': Miami's coup was a 'surprise' built on long-coveted goal of James, Wade and Bosh

Lebron is even a bad example, he was looking big picture more than taxes then, and he was thinking about life after the NBA when he signed with the lakers.

If i'm an athlete looking at say a 20 mill career, and my choices are taking home 10 in florida vs taking home 7 in a heavy tax state, thats the easiest call in the world.

Still doesn't show any NBA players not signing with a team because of state taxes.
 

trojanfan12

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I don't claim to know what players think but it's an issue that comes up a lot when talking about FA salary offers.

lol

It gets brought up by message board posters and the occasional media person. None of whom are collecting NBA level paychecks.
 
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Still doesn't show any NBA players not signing with a team because of state taxes.

No player is going to come out and say, "Well i had the same offer from the Nets and my agent told me i would save alot in taxes so i picked the Spurs"

You know its in their sales pitch, how many times someone picked a team for tax reason is unknowable, but imho aint no way in hell its 0.
 

trojanfan12

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No player is going to come out and say, "Well i had the same offer from the Nets and my agent told me i would save alot in taxes so i picked the Spurs"

Why not? If it was something to consider, they'd say it.

If taxes are an issue, why do players sign with and stay with teams in high tax areas? KD went to the Warriors. Not only does he pay California taxes for half the season, but he's in arguably the most expensive city in the state, if not the country. According to some recent stats I heard, the average price of a house there is over a million dollars.

You know its in their sales pitch, how many times someone picked a team for tax reason is unknowable, but imho aint no way in hell its 0.

I'd be shocked if it was much more than zero and almost any that did would be lower tier guys.

Again, with their income levels, there's nothing they can afford in another state that they can't afford in California, Canada or any other higher tax area.
 

tlance

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"Superstars" also change teams more frequently than they did pre-2010. Again, you're basing your entire perspective on one man's opinion, and that one man happens to be LeBron James.

The one significant star free agent to switch teams before 2010 was Steve Nash going from Dallas to Phoenix... Does he count for anything???:scratch:

No, I am basing it on the entire history of free agency in the NBA.

The Lakers have been in the conversation for just about every premier FA over the last 25 years, and they have landed arguably the biggest 2, Shaq and LeBron.

There haven't been that many superstar FAs to change teams, but you really need to look at the history here.

-2018: LeBron to LA
-2017: Paul to Houston- yes it was technically a trade, but he opted in specifically so LAC could deal him to Houston
-2016: KD to the Warriors
-2014: LeBron goes back home
-2010: LeBron to Miami
-2010: Bosh to Miami
-2000: Grant HIll to Magic- sign and trade
-1996: Shaq to Lakers

That is the list of superstar, or near superstar FAs since 1995. Aside from LeBron going back home and Hull who went to Disney World, every other one chose a top 10 market and they all chose warm climates, again, except for LeBron. 3 went to Florida, 3 to California and 1 each to Texas and Arizona.

You just aren't going to see franchises like Milwaukee, Minnesota, or indiana on a list like this unless they somehow build a Warrior or Spur like culture. And that only happens once every 20 years or so.

So you claim I am basing my opinion on 1 man and the last few years, but the reality is that the history of the league hasn't changed in this regard. When players have options, they tend to pick winning teams in big markets that preferably play in warm weather climates.
 

flyerhawk

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No player is going to come out and say, "Well i had the same offer from the Nets and my agent told me i would save alot in taxes so i picked the Spurs"

You know its in their sales pitch, how many times someone picked a team for tax reason is unknowable, but imho aint no way in hell its 0.

But there is no evidence that players consider that factor when choosing their next city. And that applies across all sports. I don't players choosing to not play for the Yankees or Dodgers.
 

tlance

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K
But there is no evidence that players consider that factor when choosing their next city. And that applies across all sports. I don't players choosing to not play for the Yankees or Dodgers.

Actually, I might argue that there is.

In my list above, 4 of the 8 superstar FAs chose teams in Florida or Texas. That is a huge percentage. Obviously other factors are more important, but that is defintely a correlation.

As for your baseball example, it doesn't really matter there. Because salaries are uncapped. If the Florida team offers 35 million per year, the Yankees can offer 40 to more than make up for the difference.
 

flyerhawk

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K


Actually, I might argue that there is.

In my list above, 4 of the 8 superstar FAs chose teams in Florida or Texas. That is a huge percentage. Obviously other factors are more important, but that is defintely a correlation.

As for your baseball example, it doesn't really matter there. Because salaries are uncapped. If the Florida team offers 35 million per year, the Yankees can offer 40 to more than make up for the difference.

Florida and Texas are 2 of the 4 largest states in the country.

As I said, if state income tax were a big income tax were such a huge factor, we should see a notable difference in players moving to low income tax states rather than high income tax. Is there any evidence of that? Who are the big name stars that have moved to a city in a low income tax state?

For all the talk of Miami, other than Lebron and Bosh, who came as a package, who are the big time free agents that have moved their? Same goes for Dallas and San Antonio.

When it is all said and done, it really doesn't make all that much difference for these players relative to their earnings. Kawhi Leonard just left a no income tax state. KD left a low income tax state to go to a high income tax state. Lebron just took a massive increase in his income taxes. Do you think that Chris Paul left the Clippers to play for the Rockets because of the taxes? Really?

I'm sure that for some players it could be the final tipping point if they are stuck between 2 teams. But it is probably pretty rare.
 

tlance

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Florida and Texas are 2 of the 4 largest states in the country.

As I said, if state income tax were a big income tax were such a huge factor, we should see a notable difference in players moving to low income tax states rather than high income tax. Is there any evidence of that? Who are the big name stars that have moved to a city in a low income tax state?

For all the talk of Miami, other than Lebron and Bosh, who came as a package, who are the big time free agents that have moved their? Same goes for Dallas and San Antonio.

When it is all said and done, it really doesn't make all that much difference for these players relative to their earnings. Kawhi Leonard just left a no income tax state. KD left a low income tax state to go to a high income tax state. Lebron just took a massive increase in his income taxes. Do you think that Chris Paul left the Clippers to play for the Rockets because of the taxes? Really?

I'm sure that for some players it could be the final tipping point if they are stuck between 2 teams. But it is probably pretty rare.

I don't think it is a huge factor, I didn't say it was.

But you asked for evidence, and I just found 4 of the 8 "superstar" players who changed teams moved to no income tax states.

Now, obviously the next star isn't picking Orlando next season just because of the tax, but if they are torn between 2 possibilities, you best believe the tax could well be the tie breaker.

After all, 4 of 8 have made the no income tax choice.
 

flyerhawk

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I don't think it is a huge factor, I didn't say it was.

But you asked for evidence, and I just found 4 of the 8 "superstar" players who changed teams moved to no income tax states.

Now, obviously the next star isn't picking Orlando next season just because of the tax, but if they are torn between 2 possibilities, you best believe the tax could well be the tie breaker.

After all, 4 of 8 have made the no income tax choice.

4 of 8 isn't exactly statistically compelling, especially given that the other examples are of players going to high tax states.

If you were so inclined you could also include Carmelo going to the Knicks. Given he already stated his preference to go to New York before the trade, I think makes it pretty clear that taxes weren't a factor for him.

And if you looked at any of those 9 player moves, can you reasonably argue that income taxes had any relevance in their decision? Chris Paul wanted to play with Rockets. If they were in California, do you think it would have mattered? And do you really think that Lebron went to Miami because of the taxes?
 
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