About the anthem protest stuff - What if...

GhostOfPoverty · Jul 20, 2018

I'll start by saying that I absolutely understand why people wouldn't like the anthem protest stuff going on in the NFL. That being said, without delving too deep into the politics of it all, for people who are either upset by it or simply don't want to see it...

What if... instead of allowing it to bother them so much, the people watching the games at home on TV just skipped the pregame rituals and didn't turn the games on until right around actual kickoff/game starting times? As for people watching live, what if they just chose to ignore and disregard what they disliked about it, rather than allowing it to get to them so badly? I've been skipping the pregame ceremony stuff in sports for years when watching from home, simply because I'm only interested in the actual games themselves.

Nothing would spike a change faster than simply disregarding it all. People aren't going to keep up with an attention-seeking behavior (whether or not the motives are legitimate/good aside) for very long if people simply choose to not get outraged by it. In the end, the whole kneeling at the anthem thing isn't actually hurting people. So if it is that bothersome, take the power of it away by disregarding it, whether that means skipping pregame ceremonies on TV, or simply choosing not to acknowledge it when you do see it. That would cause the players to move on from it way faster than the league attempting to impose rules/people getting outraged over it ever will. When it comes down to it, nothing is forcing anyone to care about the player protests one way or the other if they don't want to.

:suds:

Happy 2018 football season to all. Let's all learn to just get along and enjoy some football. :suds:

broncosmitty · Jul 20, 2018

Good luck, people love to be angry.

wildturkey · Jul 21, 2018

broncosmitty said:
Good luck, people love to be angry.

Fuck you. No we don't. Asshole

NinerSickness · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
What if...

Well, they already solved the problem by telling the players to stay in the locker room if they don't want to participate in the ceremony. So we don't have to worry about "what if" any more.

GhostOfPoverty · Jul 21, 2018

NinerSickness said:
Well, they already solved the problem by telling the players to stay in the locker room if they don't want to participate in the ceremony. So we don't have to worry about "what if" any more.

The NFL already backtracked on the issue and said they would suspend enforcing the new rules about it. I view that decision as them essentially admitting defeat on the matter. They probably concluded that attempting to enforce it and fight the NFLPA about it would result in more political backlash than it was worth. The league management is stuck between a rock and a hard place on the issue, but I also don't have much sympathy for them after the whole concussions/CTE evidence cover up they did.

Personally, I think that everyone on both sides need to just quit crying about it at this point.

Manster7588 · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
I'll start by saying that I absolutely understand why people wouldn't like the anthem protest stuff going on in the NFL. That being said, without delving too deep into the politics of it all, for people who are either upset by it or simply don't want to see it...

What if... instead of allowing it to bother them so much, the people watching the games at home on TV just skipped the pregame rituals and didn't turn the games on until right around actual kickoff/game starting times? As for people watching live, what if they just chose to ignore and disregard what they disliked about it, rather than allowing it to get to them so badly? I've been skipping the pregame ceremony stuff in sports for years when watching from home, simply because I'm only interested in the actual games themselves.

Nothing would spike a change faster than simply disregarding it all. People aren't going to keep up with an attention-seeking behavior (whether or not the motives are legitimate/good aside) for very long if people simply choose to not get outraged by it. In the end, the whole kneeling at the anthem thing isn't actually hurting people. So if it is that bothersome, take the power of it away by disregarding it, whether that means skipping pregame ceremonies on TV, or simply choosing not to acknowledge it when you do see it. That would cause the players to move on from it way faster than the league attempting to impose rules/people getting outraged over it ever will. When it comes down to it, nothing is forcing anyone to care about the player protests one way or the other if they don't want to.

Happy 2018 football season to all. Let's all learn to just get along and enjoy some football.

I don't think the protests should take place during the Anthem, but I don't go appshit over it either, but why must those who are bothered by the protest miss all the pregame stuff.
I don't think you thought this whole thing out.

GhostOfPoverty · Jul 21, 2018

Manster7588 said:
I don't think the protests should take place during the Anthem, but I don't go appshit over it either, but why must those who are bothered by the protest miss all the pregame stuff.
I don't think you thought this whole thing out.

Reread the post, man. I said they could either choose to skip the pregame stuff or disregard what bothers them. Maybe I wasn't clear enough that watching the pregame while simply disregarding the anthem protests was also a solution for people watching it on TV, as well as live in the stadiums. The main point of the thread is that getting wound up over it is only going to make it worse. That's just acknowledging reality. 2 years of people getting upset about it has done nothing to stop it. I seriously think the players would have gotten bored with it by now had it not sparked national outrage and attention for so long. If people at large quit letting it bother them, they'll move on.

Lakers+USC=#1 · Jul 21, 2018

Nobody gave a shit about the pregame stuff until the players start protesting. People act like the protest is affecting the actual game.

They don’t hate the protest, they hate what’s being protested. They just don’t want to admit it. If the protest were about how fucked up this country treat our veterans, then they won’t complain.

Lakers+USC=#1 · Jul 21, 2018

It was dying down. The networks weren’t even showing the protest anymore. The NFL should’ve stayed out of it in the first place, but nope, they let Trump hi jack the whole thing.

Manster7588 · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
Reread the post, man. I said they could either choose to skip the pregame stuff or disregard what bothers them. Maybe I wasn't clear enough that watching the pregame while simply disregarding the anthem protests was also a solution for people watching it on TV, as well as live in the stadiums. The main point of the thread is that getting wound up over it is only going to make it worse. That's just acknowledging reality. 2 years of people getting upset about it has done nothing to stop it. I seriously think the players would have gotten bored with it by now had it not sparked national outrage and attention for so long. If people at large quit letting it bother them, they'll move on.

Why should they have to skip the pregame stuff though.
Why don't the protestors disregard the stuff that bothers them? If they did there would be no protests.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 21, 2018

Manster7588 said:
Why should they have to skip the pregame stuff though.
Why don't the protestors disregard the stuff that bothers them? If they did there would be no protests.

Damn I hate this :mad2:

I think this is twice in a year I had to agree with you.

So even if I chose to skip the National Anthem (which I wouldn't and shouldn't have to) that's a different subject, I'd still have to hear the announcers and every sports station talk about it. Especially during those snooze fest games the NFL requires to be aired. The game sucks OK Brett let's talk more about the idiots protesting during the NA :rolleyes2:

GhostOfPoverty · Jul 21, 2018

Manster7588 said:
Why should they have to skip the pregame stuff though.
Why don't the protestors disregard the stuff that bothers them? If they did there would be no protests.

Again, I didn't say anyone "had" to skip through the pregame material. If you or anyone wants to spend their time watching it, that's your decision. But at the end of the day, letting the anthem kneeling rustle your feathers isn't going to change them doing it. My whole point is that clearly, 2 years of this going on has proven that giving attention to it by demanding they stop/the NFL making rules against it has clearly only made it worse.

I've posted on this board multiple times about how the whole protest thing annoys me. I've said that I wish it would just stop so I can quit seeing politics inserted into sports that I, and many others, just wish to watch as a brief escape from things in life. All I'm saying now is that clearly, complaining about it has accomplished absolutely nothing. So why keep smacking our heads against the same wall? Why not take away their power to let it annoy us by not letting them rustle us over it? In situations like these, people only have as much power to bother you as you allow them too. They will get bored and move on if people quit playing along by getting mad about it.

NinerSickness · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
Again, I didn't say anyone "had" to skip through the pregame material. If you or anyone wants to spend their time watching it, that's your decision. But at the end of the day, letting the anthem kneeling rustle your feathers isn't going to change them doing it.

As the ratings last year proved, a s**t ton of people are skipping the games entirely; not just the pregame.

The SB had Tom Brady & another Eastern-Time-Zone team, and it still had the fewest viewers in 9 years:

Eagles’ 1st Super Bowl Win Draws 103.4M Viewers, Smallest Audience In Nine Years – Update

When players were standing, people were watching. When players started attention-whoring, people tuned out.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
Again, I didn't say anyone "had" to skip through the pregame material. If you or anyone wants to spend their time watching it, that's your decision. But at the end of the day, letting the anthem kneeling rustle your feathers isn't going to change them doing it. My whole point is that clearly, 2 years of this going on has proven that giving attention to it by demanding they stop/the NFL making rules against it has clearly only made it worse.

I've posted on this board multiple times about how the whole protest thing annoys me. I've said that I wish it would just stop so I can quit seeing politics inserted into sports that I, and many others, just wish to watch as a brief escape from things in life. All I'm saying now is that clearly, complaining about it has accomplished absolutely nothing. So why keep smacking our heads against the same wall? Why not take away their power to let it annoy us by not letting them rustle us over it? In situations like these, people only have as much power to bother you as you allow them too. They will get bored and move on if people quit playing along by getting mad about it.

Again, no one should "have" to skip the Anthem. I'll ask again, what's wrong with abiding by the US Code showing 2 minutes of respect? The code was written and approved way before any of these knuckleheads were alive. Codes/laws/rules are in place for a reason. We may not agree with all of them but that's not the individuals right to disregard them. I got a ticket for j-walking once so I know we have a handful of stupid laws. Point being I don't get to pick and choose which ones I follow. If I break one, which I did I suffer the consequences. Well actually my wallet did. Many of the problems in today's society can be attributed to lack of respect.

GhostOfPoverty · Jul 21, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
Again, no one should "have" to skip the Anthem. I'll ask again, what's wrong with abiding by the US Code showing 2 minutes of respect? The code was written and approved way before any of these knuckleheads were alive. Codes/laws/rules are in place for a reason. We may not agree with all of them but that's not the individuals right to disregard them. I got a ticket for j-walking once so I know we have a handful of stupid laws. Point being I don't get to pick and choose which ones I follow. If I break one, which I did I suffer the consequences. Well actually my wallet did. Many of the problems in today's society can be attributed to lack of respect.

Wow, that's quite a can of worms you're opening up there. But I'll play along.

As for the "code" regarding national anthem etiquette you speak of, no punishment is outlined in it. As it addresses civilians, the code states "all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart." Key word there, "should face", not "must face". Furthermore, the courts even upheld the right to not abide by the code's stated etiquette rules. In West Va. Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette (1943), the court held that even public school students can't be required to salute the flag. People also can't be required to stand at attention, put their hand over the heart, or remove their hats during the national anthem."

In short, what you're referring to is a suggestion of etiquette, and nothing that is legally binding. I guarantee that thousands of fans at the typical NFL game don't follow those anthem etiquette codes perfectly, whether intentionally so or not. Should we freak out about them, too? Or just the players? Now then, where the legality of it could come into play is, typically, an employer can tell employees to refrain from expressing political views on company time. NFL players are obviously on company time during games/pregame rituals, which in theory would give the NFL the right to tell them not to protest the anthem. Their proposed solution that players who don't want to stand for it remain in the locker rooms was a reasonable one.

All that being said, obviously, PR makes the matters more complicated for a workplace like the NFL than it does a typical office or factory setting. The NFL must weigh its options in terms of what will be better or worse for business when it comes to imposing, or not imposing rules regarding the matter. Hence why this entire ordeal has been such a fiasco from start to finish.

What you are suggesting is that loyalty to the state/government should transcend civil liberties such as freedom of speech, outlined in the 1st Amendment. That goes against everything the founding fathers of the United States attempted to base the constitution on. Again, granted it's a bit more complicated since the NFL is a workplace and the players are employees, but I already addressed why that's an issue that pertains to the NFL as a business, and certainly not the legal system. You claimed that there were "Codes/laws/rules" about national anthem etiquette, and you were flat out wrong except for a code establishing official suggestions that isn't legally binding whatsoever.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
Wow, that's quite a can of worms you're opening up there. But I'll play along.

As for the "code" regarding national anthem etiquette you speak of, no punishment is outlined in it. As it addresses civilians, the code states "all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart." Key word there, "should face", not "must face". Furthermore, the courts even upheld the right to not abide by the code's stated etiquette rules. In West Va. Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette (1943), the court held that even public school students can't be required to salute the flag. People also can't be required to stand at attention, put their hand over the heart, or remove their hats during the national anthem."

In short, what you're referring to is a suggestion of etiquette, and nothing that is legally binding. I guarantee that thousands of fans at the typical NFL game don't follow those anthem etiquette codes perfectly, whether intentionally so or not. Should we freak out about them, too? Or just the players? Now then, where the legality of it could come into play is, typically, an employer can tell employees to refrain from expressing political views on company time. NFL players are obviously on company time during games/pregame rituals, which in theory would give the NFL the right to tell them not to protest the anthem. Their proposed solution that players who don't want to stand for it remain in the locker rooms was a reasonable one.

All that being said, obviously, PR makes the matters more complicated for a workplace like the NFL than it does a typical office or factory setting. The NFL must weigh its options in terms of what will be better or worse for business when it comes to imposing, or not imposing rules regarding the matter. Hence why this entire ordeal has been such a fiasco from start to finish.

What you are suggesting is that loyalty to the state/government should transcend civil liberties such as freedom of speech, outlined in the 1st Amendment. That goes against everything the founding fathers of the United States attempted to base the constitution on. Again, granted it's a bit more complicated since the NFL is a workplace and the players are employees, but I already addressed why that's an issue that pertains to the NFL as a business, and certainly not the legal system. You claimed that there were "Codes/laws/rules" about national anthem etiquette, and you were flat out wrong except for a code establishing official suggestions that isn't legally binding whatsoever.

I understand the "code" quite well. Thus the reason I referred to it as the "code" and not a law/rule. I was using the term laws and rules that in place that we can't pick and chose which we follow.

The only thing I'm suggesting is respect or lack there of in this case. My view has been and will continue to be why can't a person give up two minutes to pay respect to the Nation? As it was outlined in a United States "Code" (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq).

No need to respond that last diatribe hurt my eyes and this is getting way to political. There is a board for that.

We can solve all these problems by just showing the flag during the NA. Hopefully the announcers can find something better to talk about when they come back on the air? Doubtful but one can hope.

GhostOfPoverty · Jul 21, 2018

NWPATSFAN said:
I understand the "code" quite well. Thus the reason I referred to it as the "code" and not a law/rule. I was using the term laws and rules that in place that we can't pick and chose which we follow.

The only thing I'm suggesting is respect or lack there of in this case. My view has been and will continue to be why can't a person give up two minutes to pay respect to the Nation? As it was outlined in a United States "Code" (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq).

No need to respond that last diatribe hurt my eyes.

I really hope you're just a dedicated troll. You continue to completely miss the point of the thread, which is that trying to reason with them on the matter/getting upset about it is completely futile, thus warranting a different approach - I.e. take the power of their actions away by refusing to acknowledge it. But by all means, continue to be a bastion of negativity and keep getting rustled about something, despite the fact that years of evidence has proven that complaining about it accomplishes nothing.

NWPATSFAN · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
I really hope you're just a dedicated troll. You continue to completely miss the point of the thread, which is that trying to reason with them on the matter/getting upset about it is completely futile, thus warranting a different approach - I.e. take the power of their actions away by refusing to acknowledge it. But by all means, continue to be a bastion of negativity and keep getting rustled about something, despite the fact that years of evidence has proven that complaining about it accomplishes nothing.

I added additional comments to my last post. As for the bastion of negativity I could say the same about you my friend. Again my first post dealt with just showing the flag. Problem solved we've taken their podium away. No fines, they can stand where ever they want, do whatever they wish and I hope the fans in attendance take notice and act accordingly.

eaglesnut · Jul 21, 2018

A sniper that takes out all kneelers would be better.

Oh you don't like getting millions to play a game in a wonderful country? How about some fresh death for you instead.

These pathetic thugs only understand thugging.

rmilia1 · Jul 21, 2018

GhostOfPoverty said:
I'll start by saying that I absolutely understand why people wouldn't like the anthem protest stuff going on in the NFL. That being said, without delving too deep into the politics of it all, for people who are either upset by it or simply don't want to see it...

What if... instead of allowing it to bother them so much, the people watching the games at home on TV just skipped the pregame rituals and didn't turn the games on until right around actual kickoff/game starting times? As for people watching live, what if they just chose to ignore and disregard what they disliked about it, rather than allowing it to get to them so badly? I've been skipping the pregame ceremony stuff in sports for years when watching from home, simply because I'm only interested in the actual games themselves.

Nothing would spike a change faster than simply disregarding it all. People aren't going to keep up with an attention-seeking behavior (whether or not the motives are legitimate/good aside) for very long if people simply choose to not get outraged by it. In the end, the whole kneeling at the anthem thing isn't actually hurting people. So if it is that bothersome, take the power of it away by disregarding it, whether that means skipping pregame ceremonies on TV, or simply choosing not to acknowledge it when you do see it. That would cause the players to move on from it way faster than the league attempting to impose rules/people getting outraged over it ever will. When it comes down to it, nothing is forcing anyone to care about the player protests one way or the other if they don't want to.

Happy 2018 football season to all. Let's all learn to just get along and enjoy some football.

Yes but then those people wouldn't get to be "outraged" and if there's one thing more fun than watching football its pretending to be upset about something

About the anthem protest stuff - What if...

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