politics thread

skinsdad62 · Jul 16, 2018

ehb5 said:
I wonder why

Because they are establishment

skinsdad62 · Jul 16, 2018

ehb5 said:
What's your challenge? I legit don't remember this

Go
Watch all the news channels on tv abc . CBS nbc cnn mxnbc csnbc npr headline news

Mark down the positive stories on trump and then the negative ones . Do it for a week or 2 .tell me what you find . That was the challenge

ehb5 · Jul 16, 2018

skinsdad62 said:
Go
Watch all the news channels on tv abc . CBS nbc cnn mxnbc csnbc npr headline news

Mark down the positive stories on trump and then the negative ones . Do it for a week or 2 .tell me what you find . That was the challenge

You don't see the flaw in that plan? If trump is bad then coverage will be negative and it wouldn't indicate bias.

ehb5 · Jul 16, 2018

skinsdad62 said:
Because they are establishment

Ah the establishment conspiracy theory.

No it's because trump is an idiot and brings criticism upon himself.

gkekoa · Jul 16, 2018

ehb5 said:
Its widely accepted as bad economic policy and is already having negative affects to nobody's surprise.

That does not excuse cruelty. And weve been over this 20 times by now but he wants to limit legal immigration which is a bad thing and casts immigration in a falsely bad light. All of that is harmful.

Regardless of whether you think it is human caused it is a potentially massive problem that trump is determined to discredit and hurt progress with.

Dude the list hes said of things is a mile long. I know to you nobody is racist unless they outright say "i hate *insert race of your choice here*" or their name is Barack obama but it's pretty clear at this point. And i don't say that lightly.

Same goes for sexism. His repeated disrespect for women isnt even surprising anymore.

Im not sure why you think he can't be racist or sexist because he hires or works with women and minorities. Thats not how that works. He doesn't get a cookie for not wanting to throwback to the 1800s.

Well that's a shame.

As is that. The media needs to be better but they are also not a fake press working that should be targeted by the president. There is plenty of credible news out there.

The military. Comments on mccain and the gold star families? I believe there have been quite a few other instances as well.

Theres a difference between the public thinking poorly of our government and the president not having respect for our country and the office he holds.

If he lies a lot then he is not extremely honest. Hes extremely dishonest.

Yes he is. Lying, cheating, constant offensive remarks, most likely sexual assault, where does it end?

Maybe he constantly hires incompetent and or corrupt people because he either has no idea what he's doing, is ok with the incompetence and corruption, or both.

At this point trump is as much the swamp as anybody. Hell hes building the swamp up more than his wall.

If it is widely accepted as bad policy, imagine what the economic growth would be if we didn’t have it. Man, it would be like 12%. Just kidding, as a general rule, I would agree with you. I believe the policy is actually part of a negotiating tool he is employing to lower tariffs against our goods. So yes, it is a wait and see. Cause our economy is doing pretty well right now, wouldn’t you agree?

Following the law, which is your job, is a bad thing? Maybe those responsible for creating the law should create law that is more to your liking. Maybe the democrats should show u to work and actually...work. So we should accept 100,000 people from Somalia tomorrow? Wait, you didn’t mean there should be no limits to legal immigration. Should we allow people to immigrate that have an eighth grade education, will immediately go on welfare, and have a lengthy and expensive medical history? So you really believe in limits, just like Trump does. We should allow immigrants that help this country...nothing more.

Not exactly true. If you were to come up with an contraption that could break down carbon dioxide, I am sure Trump would love that as an investment. He just isn’t willing to destroy our means of energy production on an unproven idea that man is causing all this warming through fossil fuels.

In general, do you believe Trump hates black people? I believe, in general, Obama hates white people. Trump has a big mouth and says stupid shit. Obama doesn’t have a big mouth and stil says stupid shit. The truth is...we all say stupid shit. Sexism and mysogoney are two different things. A true racist would not work with or hire the people he sees as beneath his race or hates.

There are credible sources of news out there...sometimes even on the main channels. But those same channels also have unfounded reports and flat out lies, thus fake news. I agree the media needs to be better and go back to journalism 101...report the news, do not slant it.

Read up on McCain. He isn’t the hero he is made out to be. Even if he was, that McCain is dead. This politician tarnished his own image. That being said, I don’t like what Trump said ei5er. As for gold star families, what exactly did he say that was wrong? Just because somebody took what he said in an unintended way, doesn’t make him against the military. You know what the military loves about him. He gets them finding to get the job done...that is what matters. He also treats them with dignity and respect.

How does he not respect the country? There is a difference between the country and the government. How does he not respect his office? Just because he is unorthodox doesn’t mean he doesn’t respect his office.

His lies are obvious, unlike most politicians. He is also brutally honest which can’t be said of most politicians.

Are his lies actually lies or mistruths? Is he always purposefully deceitful? When did he last cheat? When did he most likely sexually assault somebody? Has anybody even made a metoo complaint against him? Are you today, he same person you were ten years ago?

Maybe. Or perhaps the swamp is trying to cover their asses.

Obama nominated Timothy Geithner, a known tax cheat, as Secretary of Treasury.

Trump is hated throughout DC. He is as far from the swamp as you get. Politics as usual is not in his lingo.

gkekoa · Jul 16, 2018

ehb5 said:
What a novel idea (im not mocking you mind you - if seems like an obvious question if somebody didnt believe me lol)

1. Pro life
2. Thats a false dilemma.
3. Lean pay your own way but healthcare is definitely the issue i know the least about and therefore dont have a strong opinion on it.
4. No tax hikes on the rich.
5. State and local
6. Both
7. Necesarry but bad. It needs to exist but be limited.
8. Both.
9. Well i don't think thats representative of the 2 sides at all. But ill go laws with an emphasis on increased immigration.
10. We should always try to help more. How and what we do is debatable. You don't owe your neighbor.
11. Capitalism
12. Not more laws but that doesn't mean everybody is treated equally. Just that the solution shouldn't be legislated.
13. US first. Which often involves working with other countries for mutual benefit.
14. And as a bonus since you didnt mention it. Pro 2A

2- how is it a false dilemma?

14- holy shit. How could I have forgotten that one?

I would definitely say you lean conservative. You and I are far more alike than you know. We both know things are far more nuanced than the simplistic questions I posed.

Oh well, here is mine...never my intention.

1- Pro-life with life beginning at conception. Knowing the outrage of the position, I would have allowances for the health of the mother and r*pe.

2- I don’t see as a false dilemma at all. I earn what I earn. You earn what you earn. I spend on what I want to spend on. You spend on what you spend on. If either of us are stupid with our money, that is our own damn fault.

3- I am either single payer or every individual takes care of themselves. None of this free medicine for the poor but the guy just above poor pays through his ass.

4- Fair taxation. Each person is taxed the same percentage of their money...prefer sales tax to income tax.

5- Tenth Amendment with strict adherence to enumerated powers.

6- I am 100% with you and thought your answer was great. There is far too much fraud in the military and officers are overpaid.

7- Another great answer. There have to be rules but not too many.

8- I almost agree with you. I believe in privilege but race has nothing to do with it.
9- This is where we have a huge disagreement. I believe we should only allow those to immigrate that have a job lined up that an American is not available or unqualified for...and they should not get a dime from tax payer money.

10- I liked your answer but who is we? I believe charity should be given by the individual, not the government. When the government does it, it is redistribution of wealth through extortion.

11- capitalism obviously.

12- I really like this answer. So what is your solution?

13- Agree mostly. Should we simply go for mutual benefit where the other side gets more, or should we go for an edge to the US?

14- Still can’t believe I forgot this one.

Rowdy · Jul 17, 2018

gkekoa said:
OK...let me ask you this. I see people attacking you as a liberal and you claim to be a conservative. Let’s look at the issues...
My turn

1- Pro-life or Pro-choice- Life with the exception of r*pe and mothers health
2- wealth redistribution or earn your own money- Earn what you make nothing in life is free
3- single payer medical or pay your own way- Healthcare should be ran like a business and not regulated by the government. Buy across state lines and such. They need to be able to compete for our business
4- increase taxes on the rich because they can afford it or fair taxation- Fair tax or sales tax
5- centralized federal power or state and local government should have more power- State and local. Everything the feds get their hands on they seem to fuck it up
6- Strong military or down size- Strong. Peace through strength
7- government regulation is good or bad, generally- Need a whole lot less, as Trump is doing
8- it is all white privileges fault or people are responsible for their own lives. Not white privileges fault
9- open borders or nation of laws- No illegal immigration. That's like me pitching a tent in the libs back yard of their home and calling it mine
10- Government should do more for the poor or we do enough- It's fine to help someone get back on their feet when they are down on their luck. Ones who are getting assistance need to be drug tested and need to be putting forth effort
11- capitalism or socialism- Capitalism
12- we have equal rights or more laws need to be made to level the field- Equal. If anything the Caucasian straight male is the minority
13- US first or we should sacrifice as a nation for the good of other countries

-US first and that's exactly what Trump is doing
14- RBA

Rowdy · Jul 17, 2018

gkekoa said:
OK...let me ask you this. I see people attacking you as a liberal and you claim to be a conservative. Let’s look at the issues...

1- Pro-life or Pro-choice
2- wealth redistribution or earn your own money
3- single payer medical or pay your own way
4- increase taxes on the rich because they can afford it or fair taxation
5- centralized federal power or state and local government should have more power
6- Strong military or down size
7- government regulation is good or bad, generally
8- it is all white privileges fault or people are responsible for their own lives
9- open borders or nation of laws
10- Government should do more for the poor or we do enough
11- capitalism or socialism
12- we have equal rights or more laws need to be made to level the field
13- US first or we should sacrifice as a nation for the good of other countries

15- Climate change- No proof. Drill baby drill!

Rowdy · Jul 17, 2018

HTTR08 said:
15- Climate change- No proof. Drill baby drill!

16. Religion- God should be acknowledged in schools and government buildings
17. Marriage is between a man and a woman

Indrid Cold · Jul 17, 2018

gkekoa said:
You have to understand there is a difference between Donald Trump and Trump’s business holdings.
Do you have a link to the borrowing from family members?

Oh, I'm sure Trump has money stashed away everywhere that would let him live in luxury no matter how badly he screwed over his business partners, contractors, etc.
The nugget about borrowing money to stay afloat pre-Apprentice came from a Harper's or Atlantic article, not online.
I did see a number of great articles online about Trump driving contractors out of business with his Atlantic City shenanigans.
Trump, his doomed Taj casino and 253 contractors not paid in full

gkekoa · Jul 17, 2018

HTTR08 said:
15- Climate change- No proof. Drill baby drill!

HTTR08 said:
16. Religion- God should be acknowledged in schools and government buildings
17. Marriage is between a man and a woman

15- There is plenty of proof. It just is t what they are claiming it is. The Earth has been heating since the last true ice age. The Earth was heating before man was here. The Earth was heating before the Industrial Age. There is a chance that man does cause a small increase in that heating trend. Common sense would dictate, if there are more people on the Earth today than at the turn of the century, and carbon is a green house gas, then yes man is responsible for some portion. If there is less vegetation on the Earth than at the turn of the century and man is the cause of this, then yes, man is partially responsible for climate change.

Let me ask this. Are there more or fewer oxygen breathing animals on Earth than at the turn of the century?

While I do not dispute the overall trend that the Earth is getting warmer, I do dispute the cause. I also dispute how to combat it.

16- It really depends on what you mean. Should God be taught in school? The answer is no. Should students be allowed religious freedom in school...of course they should. Should teachers be allowed religious freedom in school? Of course they should, but they shouldn’t be teaching about Christ in the middle of math class. Should we allow the Ten Commandments in schools and government buildings? Of course we should. Should we allow Muslims to wear hijabs in school? Of course we should. THe list in never ending.

17- It depends on what you mean. A Christian marriage is between a man and a woman, and God. No priest or pastor should ever be forced to marry a gay couple and churches should not be forced to allow them to have a ceremony at a church.

Government should have no part in any marriage. Government can and perhaps should allow civil unions. That is the only purpose of government in marriage in the first place...it is essentially contract law. Whether or not certain benefits should be extended to straight and gay couples equally is another question. Should the married and filing jointly be extend3d to gay couples? It would depend on the purpose of the tax break in the first place. If we believe straight marriage is good for society as a whole, then perhaps we should allow it. If we don’t believe gay marriage is good for society as a whole, then they shouldn’t. The truth is the tax break was originally meant to assist in families with children. Maybe that is who should get the tax break.

gkekoa · Jul 17, 2018

Indrid Cold said:
Oh, I'm sure Trump has money stashed away everywhere that would let him live in luxury no matter how badly he screwed over his business partners, contractors, etc.
The nugget about borrowing money to stay afloat pre-Apprentice came from a Harper's or Atlantic article, not online.
I did see a number of great articles online about Trump driving contractors out of business with his Atlantic City shenanigans.
Trump, his doomed Taj casino and 253 contractors not paid in full

Sorry but blame the law...not Trump. The truth is, you would do the same exact thing.

skinsdad62 · Jul 17, 2018

ehb5 said:
Ah the establishment conspiracy theory.

No it's because trump is an idiot and brings criticism upon himself.

sooner or later you will understand what is going on and stop with the liberal tactics

skinsdad62 · Jul 17, 2018

i think its time to leave this conversation about trump until there is actually some real change in the situation . i have put my views out there and i have backed them up with evidence

some accept it , others dont but this conversation is taking up way too much of my time and i wont change anyone's mind . here which i should have known when i entered it

thanks for the debate but TC is 9 days away and its time to focus on that for me

continue on and have fun

Sharkinva · Jul 17, 2018

skinsdad62 said:
i think its time to leave this conversation about trump until there is actually some real change in the situation . i have put my views out there and i have backed them up with evidence

some accept it , others dont but this conversation is taking up way too much of my time and i wont change anyone's mind . here which i should have known when i entered it

thanks for the debate but TC is 9 days away and its time to focus on that for me

continue on and have fun

Agreed.

For the Redskins, the next two months should be interesting.
For our country.. the next three months might be society shifting.

Time will tell on both.

skinsdad62 · Jul 17, 2018

Sharkinva said:
Agreed.

For the Redskins, the next two months should be interesting.
For our country.. the next three months might be society shifting.

Time will tell on both.

its good we can debate this and still be freinds

ehb5 · Jul 17, 2018

gkekoa said:
If it is widely accepted as bad policy, imagine what the economic growth would be if we didn’t have it. Man, it would be like 12%. Just kidding, as a general rule, I would agree with you. I believe the policy is actually part of a negotiating tool he is employing to lower tariffs against our goods. So yes, it is a wait and see. Cause our economy is doing pretty well right now, wouldn’t you agree?

Following the law, which is your job, is a bad thing? Maybe those responsible for creating the law should create law that is more to your liking. Maybe the democrats should show u to work and actually...work. So we should accept 100,000 people from Somalia tomorrow? Wait, you didn’t mean there should be no limits to legal immigration. Should we allow people to immigrate that have an eighth grade education, will immediately go on welfare, and have a lengthy and expensive medical history? So you really believe in limits, just like Trump does. We should allow immigrants that help this country...nothing more.

Not exactly true. If you were to come up with an contraption that could break down carbon dioxide, I am sure Trump would love that as an investment. He just isn’t willing to destroy our means of energy production on an unproven idea that man is causing all this warming through fossil fuels.

In general, do you believe Trump hates black people? I believe, in general, Obama hates white people. Trump has a big mouth and says stupid shit. Obama doesn’t have a big mouth and stil says stupid shit. The truth is...we all say stupid shit. Sexism and mysogoney are two different things. A true racist would not work with or hire the people he sees as beneath his race or hates.

There are credible sources of news out there...sometimes even on the main channels. But those same channels also have unfounded reports and flat out lies, thus fake news. I agree the media needs to be better and go back to journalism 101...report the news, do not slant it.

Read up on McCain. He isn’t the hero he is made out to be. Even if he was, that McCain is dead. This politician tarnished his own image. That being said, I don’t like what Trump said ei5er. As for gold star families, what exactly did he say that was wrong? Just because somebody took what he said in an unintended way, doesn’t make him against the military. You know what the military loves about him. He gets them finding to get the job done...that is what matters. He also treats them with dignity and respect.

How does he not respect the country? There is a difference between the country and the government. How does he not respect his office? Just because he is unorthodox doesn’t mean he doesn’t respect his office.

His lies are obvious, unlike most politicians. He is also brutally honest which can’t be said of most politicians.

Are his lies actually lies or mistruths? Is he always purposefully deceitful? When did he last cheat? When did he most likely sexually assault somebody? Has anybody even made a metoo complaint against him? Are you today, he same person you were ten years ago?

Maybe. Or perhaps the swamp is trying to cover their asses.

Obama nominated Timothy Geithner, a known tax cheat, as Secretary of Treasury.

Trump is hated throughout DC. He is as far from the swamp as you get. Politics as usual is not in his lingo.

Oh the economys great right now. That doesnt mean the policy isnt hurting people right now.

You and i both know that using the law to be an asshole is not the right thing to do. And of course i believe in limits. Not in decreasing legal immigration though. Its not the concept of limits thats the problem. Hell not allowing open borders is a limit. The problem is that trump wants to limit all all immigration from its current state which is bad. His immigration policy is cruel yes but its also just harmful to our country.

Im sure he would be fine with that contraption. And what we should do is debatable. But actively working to harm progress here as trump does is bad.

How do you get that trump isnt racist but obama hates black people?? This is what i mean. Youll defend anybody from claims of racism unless it is 100% explicit or their name is barack obama. It makes no sense.

Theres no "true racist" as though trump doesnt qualify because hes only kinda racist. A racist absolutely would still hire people he hated. Trump isnt the "bring slavery back" level of racist. He is still racist (and sexist and xenophobic).

I dint care what the hell anybodys opinion of mccain is what he said was indefensible. And there are a lot more examples of trump being in hot water for comments or actions towards military members.

He is crude and effectively a child in office. Insulting press, your fellow government officials, and the ic with name calling isnt behavior we should be ok with from our president.

His lies are obvious isnt a good defense. For one hes still lying nonstop which is really bad. And for 2...his lies are believed constantly. Look around this thread for evidence. Trump says obama wiretapped him and now people think thats true. He lies his supporters just parrot it with no questioning. He lies constantly because it works.

His lies are both. He lies because hes deceitful and malicious. He also lies because hes an idiot and doesnt know better. He has been accused of sexual assualt. Hes also admitted that he walks up to women and grabs them. So yea i think sexual assualt is a reasonable assumption especially when paired with his comments towards women. And i could forgive him for being an ass in the past if all sogns didnt point to him being an ass now. He didn't doesnt and never will think he needs to change as a person.

Him being hated in dc doesnt mean he isnt part of the swamp. Hes just making it his swamp. He doesnt want to get rid of the swamp he jist wants to run the swamp.

Sharkinva · Jul 17, 2018

ehb5 said:
Him being hated in dc doesnt mean he isnt part of the swamp. Hes just making it his swamp. He doesnt want to get rid of the swamp he jist wants to run the swamp.

ehb5 · Jul 17, 2018

gkekoa said:
2- how is it a false dilemma?

14- holy shit. How could I have forgotten that one?

I would definitely say you lean conservative. You and I are far more alike than you know. We both know things are far more nuanced than the simplistic questions I posed.

Oh well, here is mine...never my intention.

1- Pro-life with life beginning at conception. Knowing the outrage of the position, I would have allowances for the health of the mother and r*pe.

2- I don’t see as a false dilemma at all. I earn what I earn. You earn what you earn. I spend on what I want to spend on. You spend on what you spend on. If either of us are stupid with our money, that is our own damn fault.

3- I am either single payer or every individual takes care of themselves. None of this free medicine for the poor but the guy just above poor pays through his ass.

4- Fair taxation. Each person is taxed the same percentage of their money...prefer sales tax to income tax.

5- Tenth Amendment with strict adherence to enumerated powers.

6- I am 100% with you and thought your answer was great. There is far too much fraud in the military and officers are overpaid.

7- Another great answer. There have to be rules but not too many.

8- I almost agree with you. I believe in privilege but race has nothing to do with it.
9- This is where we have a huge disagreement. I believe we should only allow those to immigrate that have a job lined up that an American is not available or unqualified for...and they should not get a dime from tax payer money.

10- I liked your answer but who is we? I believe charity should be given by the individual, not the government. When the government does it, it is redistribution of wealth through extortion.

11- capitalism obviously.

12- I really like this answer. So what is your solution?

13- Agree mostly. Should we simply go for mutual benefit where the other side gets more, or should we go for an edge to the US?

14- Still can’t believe I forgot this one.

Well maybe false dilemma was the wrong choice of words but i think on that one and several others you misrepresented the choices and what each side stands for. Althiugh you do admit they're just simplistic questions to get an idea so i get that.

The rest of that i think I'll pass on going into more detail on. I can only handle so many discussions at once lol. Always open to come back to things later. And i think i proved my point for anybody who thought i was lying about being a conservative for some reason lol.

ehb5 · Jul 17, 2018

HTTR08 said:
15- Climate change- No proof. Drill baby drill!

Theres plenty of proof

HTTR08 said:
16. Religion- God should be acknowledged in schools and government buildings
17. Marriage is between a man and a woman

You don't think a gay couple should be able to be married in the eyes of the law?

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