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Game Thread: NBA Summer League 2018

WiggyRuss

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One guy I thought was a bust early on in the season was Zach Collins. Man he did a complete 180, IMO. With a bit more seasoning, I think he could be a really good player. He's got a lot of upside.
last years draft should be interesting.

there are so many guys that could still emerge as very good talents, but surprisingly, after Tatum and Mitchell, no one has really showed they are a future star yet. There are literally probably 15 guys that are all relatively close.

Like i said that- I really do like the potential that Isaac and Markannen have. Markannen looks like he has a little poor-man's Dirk in him.
 

shopson67

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obviously at this point with Dunn- but i was comparing Dunn to Brogdon since they were in the same draft class.

just like say Monk and Hart. Does it surprise me the 4 year college starter 23 year old has been better than a guy who played 1 year and came into the NBA as a teenager? of course not.

just like you would NEVER IN A MILLION years trade Ingram for Brogdon after their rookie seasons even though Brogdon was ROY and Ingram struggled mightily, just because Josh Hart, a 4 year starter showed that he was prepared to be a decent NBA more so than some teeangers- that does not mean BY A LONG shot that he will end up being better than any of those guys that have so much higher celings---- even if those guys dont reach their ceilings- a decent 3 and D guy like Brogdon or Hart- if indeed Hart continues to mature and even develops into that- is not near as valuablea as trying to develop a guy who can actually become a star and one of your guys you build your fracnhise around someday.

You're fixated on these fictional trade situations, yet you insist that Hart was only playing that much in the Summer League to boost his trade value. Why, if he has no real value to speak of?

I would project that at least half of the names you listed will never become stars and many will get replaced by the next prospect before they even mature into the players they will be.

I'm not comparing Hart to him in any way, but what do you think of a 3 year collegiate like Stephen Curry? Does he pass your test as a star?
 

WiggyRuss

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You're fixated on these fictional trade situations, yet you insist that Hart was only playing that much in the Summer League to boost his trade value. Why, if he has no real value to speak of?

I would project that at least half of the names you listed will never become stars and many will get replaced by the next prospect before they even mature into the players they will be.

I'm not comparing Hart to him in any way, but what do you think of a 3 year collegiate like Stephen Curry? Does he pass your test as a star?
in the last decade in the NBA how many 4 year college players went on to be good or great players?

Steph Curry, as you said, was a 3 year player, and is obviously an exception to the general rule, that, for the most part, if you havent left school by year 4, your ceiling is just not that high.

I know Oladipo stayed 3 years. Draymond and Butler are both 4 year players. Darren Collison is a 4 year college player. Chandler Parsons and Kenneth Faried are 4 year college players. Brogdon is a 4 year college player. Lillard and McCollum are both 4 year college players.

There are 4 year college players scattered amongst the top tier of NBA players, they are just fairly rare.

id prob rank the 4 year college players as:

1. Butler
2. Lillard
3. Draymond
4. McCollum
5. JJ Redick
6. Chandler Parsons
7. Darren Collison,
8. Kenneth Faried
9. Wesley Mathews
9. George Hill
10. David West

maybe you get one or two each draft that are solid players --- and over a 10 year period maybe you get 4-5 all stars in the NBA that were 4 year college players. Certainly not impossible- but definitely rare.
 

tlance

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@Shanemansj13

do have to say--- a few things make this a lot beter this time aaround--- (i) lebron will be 34 in December, and (ii) the Cavs are a MILLION times better off this time around.

Osman and Sexton will be good guys to start with. Zizic, Clarkson, Hood, Nance are not a bad base either.

I set up the bet, I think.

Don't really know what I am doing though and no idea how to create odds. You might need to accept, then accept another 4K bet after this one is processed.
 

Wamu

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his FT% and shooting technique overall, his health going forward, and the baggage his dad brings. I dont think any of those things are outside the realm of relevancy.

I absoltuely think that Ball can be a Ricky-Rubio-Like passer, and a solid defender, and an elite rebounder for a guard---- but in todays NBA you cant be a guard that shoots 50% from the FT line.

Lonzo > Sexton

Whiteside > Tristan

Riley > whoever the Cavs GM is

round Earth > flat Earth
 

tlance

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From what I've read, because he wants to play as much as possible to keep getting better.

He told the Lakers that he was going to work hard over the summer and be the first guy in and the last guy out.

So far, he's been true to his word. Magic says he's pushing to be the starter at the 2.

He might just earn it.

Super Cheap contributors like Hart and Kuzma are invaluable when trying to construct a contending roster. If they can use Hart and a pick to move Deng, then perhaps they do it. Otherwise, I think they end up keeping him. Because I don't foresee Kawhi to the Lakers this season.
 

tlance

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Collins is 20 years old. Monk is 20 years old. Hart is 23 years old. You think Collins and Monk are gonna play in summer league 3 years from now?

Thats what i am saying- its incredibly rare to see a player of Hart's age, and draft positon go there and play in a ton of games and a ton of minutes in his 2nd year.

Osman is 23 as well- but only played 2 games- got a little run with SExton and then let the Billy Preston's of the world get their playing time in a setting that really does not matter much against pretty weak competition.

Sure.

But I also think your Brogdon comparison was a good one.

Almost no chance of Hart ever being a star. But, could he eventually be a 5th starter or key reserve for a contender? I think that is defintely possible.
 

Gman

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Almost no chance of Hart ever being a star. But, could he eventually be a 5th starter or key reserve for a contender? I think that is defintely possible.
I like Iman Shumpert as a comparison.
 

tlance

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I like Iman Shumpert as a comparison.

I really don't.

Shumpert was a great athlete who never really figured it out.

Hart is a highly polished, mature player and a winner. Just like Brogdon really.
 

trojanfan12

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He might just earn it.

Super Cheap contributors like Hart and Kuzma are invaluable when trying to construct a contending roster. If they can use Hart and a pick to move Deng, then perhaps they do it. Otherwise, I think they end up keeping him. Because I don't foresee Kawhi to the Lakers this season.

Agree. I think the only way Kawhi comes to the Lakers this year is if the Spurs come way down on their asking price, which I don't see happening.
 

CitySushi

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in the last decade in the NBA how many 4 year college players went on to be good or great players?

Steph Curry, as you said, was a 3 year player, and is obviously an exception to the general rule, that, for the most part, if you havent left school by year 4, your ceiling is just not that high.

I know Oladipo stayed 3 years. Draymond and Butler are both 4 year players. Darren Collison is a 4 year college player. Chandler Parsons and Kenneth Faried are 4 year college players. Brogdon is a 4 year college player. Lillard and McCollum are both 4 year college players.

There are 4 year college players scattered amongst the top tier of NBA players, they are just fairly rare.

id prob rank the 4 year college players as:

1. Butler
2. Lillard
3. Draymond
4. McCollum
5. JJ Redick
6. Chandler Parsons
7. Darren Collison,
8. Kenneth Faried
9. Wesley Mathews
9. George Hill
10. David West

maybe you get one or two each draft that are solid players --- and over a 10 year period maybe you get 4-5 all stars in the NBA that were 4 year college players. Certainly not impossible- but definitely rare.

Robert Covington needs to be on that list too.

Most of the 4 year players are guys you would expect to be more glue guys than superstars. I get where you're coming from. But there have also been some really great 4 year players too who have excelled past what people thought they might be. But typically in the NBA as far as the draft goes, upside far too often exceeds actual value. If you're in the lottery, you have to swing for the fences.
 

WiggyRuss

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I do have to say- I realize summer league does not mean anything W/L wise, or much elsewise......but I just like the way Sexton competes. He is a smart kid that works hard. Everything else should eventually come for this kid. I think he is kind of where Kemba was when he came into the league shot-wise- not great but will eventually get there. The defense should be there as he has the altheticism and motor to play D. He can def can get to the basket. He needs to learn the game and develop a consistent jumper. I sure hope he eventually gets there over time.
 

Mecca

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Sure.

But I also think your Brogdon comparison was a good one.

Almost no chance of Hart ever being a star. But, could he eventually be a 5th starter or key reserve for a contender? I think that is defintely possible.
He's a little bit better as a scorer than Malcolm.

But, I like this comparison.
 

shopson67

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ugh, not looking so good tonight, folks...

That Portland team is pretty stacked for a summer league team, with depth. Throttled the Lakers early and held that lead throughout. Talk about 2nd year pros, the Blazers are stacked with them lol. Most summer league teams really struggle once that second team comes in, but not those Blazers...

All in all, a strong summer league performance again with good indicators for the new Lakers rookies and the hold-overs. Svi, Moe, Josh and Caruso all showed well.
 

trojanfan12

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I do have to say- I realize summer league does not mean anything W/L wise, or much elsewise......but I just like the way Sexton competes. He is a smart kid that works hard. Everything else should eventually come for this kid. I think he is kind of where Kemba was when he came into the league shot-wise- not great but will eventually get there. The defense should be there as he has the altheticism and motor to play D. He can def can get to the basket. He needs to learn the game and develop a consistent jumper. I sure hope he eventually gets there over time.

He was fun to watch. During the game vs. the Lakers, he was the most "eye catching" player on the floor, imo.

It wasn't always eye catching in a good way, but that should work itself out as he learns the NBA game. His athleticism and motor were easy to pick out.

He went head to head with Josh Hart a good bit and imo, gave as good as he got most of the time.
 

tlance

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He's a little bit better as a scorer than Malcolm.

But, I like this comparison.

Yeah. They don't really play that much alike, but I do think they bring pretty similar value as players. At least in theory if Hart brings his summer league excellence during the regular season.
 
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