politics thread

Sharkinva said:

I know she was accused of some horrible actions.

But as there was no trial where she was allowed to defend her actions, legally she is only guilty in your mind. I also know that your assumption of guilt has more to do with her political party than er actions apparently. I would have loved to seen her stand trial.

BUt to be honest, just as you assume the Mueller Probes are some partisan witch hunt, so to were the Ken Starr probe as well as Trey Gowdys hunt for Hillary.

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How can you have a trial when the people that can actually bring charges are in her corner?

Actually, she is guilty or she isn’t...the courts and our minds have nothing to do with it. You could say our justice system hasn’t found her guilty but that doesn’t preclude her guilt. Again, you can’t be guilty if those who SHOULD bring charges don’t even when it is blatantly obvious they should.

Mueller probes may or may not be a witch hunt. Stars and Gowdy’s were not. Well Gowdys May have been because Hillary is definitely a witch.

gkekoa said:

How can you have a trial when the people that can actually bring charges are in her corner?

Actually, she is guilty or she isn’t...the courts and our minds have nothing to do with it. You could say our justice system hasn’t found her guilty but that doesn’t preclude her guilt. Again, you can’t be guilty if those who SHOULD bring charges don’t even when it is blatantly obvious they should.

Mueller probes may or may not be a witch hunt. Stars and Gowdy’s were not. Well Gowdys May have been because Hillary is definitely a witch.

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So again.. you are pissed that Hillary wasnt brought up on charges. So even after Trump basically sucked Putins dick, you feel that some sort of cosmic karma would be to not look into something that attacked the very fabric of our democracy. Sure no votes were changed.. that we know of. But that wasnt for a lack of trying.

Our President just went on global TV and said basically he takes Russia's word over his own intelligence community. And you see no problem of conflict of interest in this line of thinking at all?? And not because you like the candidate, but you like what he is trying to do to our country.

Sharkinva said:

So again.. you are pissed that Hillary wasnt brought up on charges. So even after Trump basically sucked Putins dick, you feel that some sort of cosmic karma would be to not look into something that attacked the very fabric of our democracy. Sure no votes were changed.. that we know of. But that wasnt for a lack of trying.

Our President just went on global TV and said basically he takes Russia's word over his own intelligence community. And you see no problem of conflict of interest in this line of thinking at all?? And not because you like the candidate, but you like what he is trying to do to our country.

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Of course I am mad Hillary was not brought up on charges. The evidence was there and the fix is apparent.

Except Trump didn’t. He just didn’t go ass hat crazy when Putin denied Russia interfered. Trump hasn’t been presented with the evidence of interference because he is a subject of he investigation. What good would it do to go off on Putin at this point?

What exactly attacked the fabric of our democracy? Russian interference? Every country intereferes with every other countries elections. Now, I do have major problems with hackers. I would love to get our hands on them and find out the truth...find out who ordered the code red. We both know that isn’t going to happen. Would I like to see sanctions against Russia for the hacking of the DNC...yes I would.

I think Trump was an idiot for handling it this way. I do understand his frustration in it. If you were Trump, and you hadn’t done anything wrong, would you trust the people who are instigating lies and pushing false narratives against you, while freeing an obviously guilty political opponent, with massive amounts of evidence that shows bias against you?

What was the conflict of interest exactly?

gkekoa said:

Of course I am mad Hillary was not brought up on charges. The evidence was there and the fix is apparent.

Except Trump didn’t. He just didn’t go ass hat crazy when Putin denied Russia interfered. Trump hasn’t been presented with the evidence of interference because he is a subject of he investigation. What good would it do to go off on Putin at this point?

What exactly attacked the fabric of our democracy? Russian interference? Every country intereferes with every other countries elections. Now, I do have major problems with hackers. I would love to get our hands on them and find out the truth...find out who ordered the code red. We both know that isn’t going to happen. Would I like to see sanctions against Russia for the hacking of the DNC...yes I would.

I think Trump was an idiot for handling it this way. I do understand his frustration in it. If you were Trump, and you hadn’t done anything wrong, would you trust the people who are instigating lies and pushing false narratives against you, while freeing an obviously guilty political opponent, with massive amounts of evidence that shows bias against you?

What was the conflict of interest exactly?

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You want to know why i think Trump is compromised?? Not because of some pee tape. We all know he is a vile man.

I think after his last bankruptcy, when he couldnt get some one to loan him a dollar for a sammich, ALL of his capitol came through Russia for him to rebuild his brand. NO money rolls through Russia without Putin's OK. I dont think Trump fears collusion (conspiracy actually) because he knows it happened.

I think he fears it coming out he is in fact beholden to Russian interests. I think his taxes are a key in it as well.

As far as what attacked the fabric of our democracy. When you have some one hacking into our government to try and influence the election, tryin to hack our voting machines. Trying to tilt our election for some one who has a foreign nations interests over our own... You beet your ass i got an issue with that.

Sharkinva said:

I know she was accused of some horrible actions.

But as there was no trial where she was allowed to defend her actions, legally she is only guilty in your mind. I also know that your assumption of guilt has more to do with her political party than er actions apparently. I would have loved to seen her stand trial.

BUt to be honest, just as you assume the Mueller Probes are some partisan witch hunt, so to were the Ken Starr probe as well as Trey Gowdys hunt for Hillary.

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it doesnt take a trial to see shge bleach bitted her emails . it doesnt take a trial to see she busted up her blackberries .

it does take a trial to convict her of those things for obstruction of justice

Sharkinva said:

You want to know why i think Trump is compromised?? Not because of some pee tape. We all know he is a vile man.

I think after his last bankruptcy, when he couldnt get some one to loan him a dollar for a sammich, ALL of his capitol came through Russia for him to rebuild his brand. NO money rolls through Russia without Putin's OK. I dont think Trump fears collusion (conspiracy actually) because he knows it happened.

I think he fears it coming out he is in fact beholden to Russian interests. I think his taxes are a key in it as well.

As far as what attacked the fabric of our democracy. When you have some one hacking into our government to try and influence the election, tryin to hack our voting machines. Trying to tilt our election for some one who has a foreign nations interests over our own... You beet your ass i got an issue with that.

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If he already got the money from Russia, why exactly would he be beholden to them? Trump has never been bankrupt that I know of. He has had businesses go bankrupt and there is a huge difference.

I do believe his taxes will be interesting; however, I doubt there is anything criminal in them. He likely played the tax code, just like he played bankruptcy laws.

The DNC is not our government. They are a political party.

Can you show me how or where they tried to hack our voting machines?

Can you show me how he has a foreign nation’s interest over our own? I can show you numerous times where he has put our nation’s interest over every other nation, to include our allies. From there, I can show you how his predecessor did exactly what makes you upset.

gkekoa said:

Can you show me how or where they tried to hack our voting machines?

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The latest indictment alleges that Russian intelligence officers hacked into the website of a yet-unidentified state board of elections. Among other new information, it alleges Russia used that hack to steal information related to 500,000 voters. That figure’s surprising. We already know that hackers targeted election systems in 21 states and allegedly hacked into the computers of a private U.S. elections systems vendor. (The indictment did not name the vendor, but details seem to match a reported hack of the company VR Systems; VR Systems has denied any breach had occurred.) But, thus far, officials have only confirmed that databases from the Illinois election systems had ever actually been compromised. What’s more, reports previously indicated the records of only about 100,000 voters had been accessed in the Illinois breach. That means the reach of Russia’s infiltration of election systems likely went deeper than we’d understood.

The truth is: We can never have 100 percent unhackable elections.
Perhaps most importantly, as Wired’s Kim Zetter identifies, the indictments suggest the Russians’ attack against U.S. election infrastructure may have been an afterthought. The indictment puts the research and execution of the state board of election and vendor attacks in June through October of 2016—well into the election, and months after the initial hacks of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s campaign. As she notes, we would be wise to assume future attacks will involve more advanced planning. Combine this with the fact that the Russians undoubtedly learned information from their 2016 efforts, and there is reason to believe future attacks on our election infrastructure could be far more damaging.

The good news is that many officials tasked with protecting our election infrastructure take this threat seriously. Election officials, the Department of Homeland Security, and the federal Election Assistance Commission have all been working diligently to ensure they can catch and prevent future attempts to breach election infrastructure. Congress has provided states with $380 million to increase election system security. A new government coordinating councilnow allows the federal government and local election officials to share information like never before. And many states have made serious investments in new security.



Mueller’s Latest Indictment Suggests Russia’s Infiltration of U.S. Election Systems Could Get Worse

Sharkinva said:

So again.. you are pissed that Hillary wasnt brought up on charges. So even after Trump basically sucked Putins dick, you feel that some sort of cosmic karma would be to not look into something that attacked the very fabric of our democracy. Sure no votes were changed.. that we know of. But that wasnt for a lack of trying.

Our President just went on global TV and said basically he takes Russia's word over his own intelligence community. And you see no problem of conflict of interest in this line of thinking at all?? And not because you like the candidate, but you like what he is trying to do to our country.

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i was waiting for this to come up . imagine just for a moment what the narrative would have been if he got on putin's case for meddling in our elections ? our wonderful media would have gone and said "trump admits russian meddling , election was tainted "

this has been the purpose of this witch hunt from the get go , to tarnish his presidency .

now please tell me how our intelligence community is worthy of any trust after the shenanigans they have/are playing by trump ? how about the questions he asked about the servers ? where are they ? why didnt the FBI get to look at them ?

and of course our infallible intelligence services were right on with the weapons of mass destruction debacle . we are still looking for those arent we ?

fact is Trump couldnt win on this meeting no matter how it went

i find it funny how clapper and brennan call crap treasonous when this BS happened on their watch . a bunch of incompetent baboons .

and lastly , russian meddling isnt new . sen john mccains presidential campaign was hacked but no outrage there

gkekoa said:

Can you show me how he has a foreign nation’s interest over our own? I can show you numerous times where he has put our nation’s interest over every other nation, to include our allies. From there, I can show you how his predecessor did exactly what makes you upset.

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When Fox News hits the WTF button.... will this make you guys think beyond Trump good progress bad???

Donald Trump's Allegiance to Russian President Vladimir Putin is Denounced by Usually Reliable Supporters at Fox News, GOP

gkekoa said:

If he already got the money from Russia, why exactly would he be beholden to them? Trump has never been bankrupt that I know of. He has had businesses go bankrupt and there is a huge difference.

I do believe his taxes will be interesting; however, I doubt there is anything criminal in them. He likely played the tax code, just like he played bankruptcy laws.

The DNC is not our government. They are a political party.

Can you show me how or where they tried to hack our voting machines?

Can you show me how he has a foreign nation’s interest over our own? I can show you numerous times where he has put our nation’s interest over every other nation, to include our allies. From there, I can show you how his predecessor did exactly what makes you upset.

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Trump was in serious financial trouble before The Apprentice...he was borrowing money from family members to make his payroll.
NBC threw Trump a lifeline that allowed him to rebuild his brand.

skinsdad62 said:

again what i dont get from the" conservative" ebb is what about fusion GPS and its links to HRC and the FBI as i have shown above . how it is a member of a foriegn policy panel gets into a situation where he says the russians have dirt on hillary , with no evidence only talk , and that ignites obama into wiretapping an opposition campaign and putting 2 spies in it , yet HRC campaign buys a dossier through steele via the russians and that warrants nothing ?

my next question is after all the emails released by the IG , i still cant find a pro trump one , from either investigation . not one but yet i am to buy there was no bias ? how many emails did strozk and page put out there that revealed their love of HRC and their disdain for trump ? yet the "conservative " ebb says there is no evidence , none whatsoever and forget about what they wrote and what they did ,

over and over again i ask how can you write an exoneration letter BEFORE you interview a suspect. ? and why am i not to have skepticism over it ?

mueller indicted 12 russians for hacking the DNC . your boy rosenstein said NO AMERICANS WERE INVOLVED , so how is there collusion ? this is what you are accusing trump of . shark and others have now said it isnt about collusion anymore but other things , yet i keep hearing about collusion

truth be told i wouldnt trust rosenstein because the hack job had to be done inside the HRC/DNC campaign due to the download speed . it had to be done with a thumbnail drive which had to be done from the inside . also his hands are all over the fake dossier fisa warrant

the crux of this matter is this , peter strozk changed the wording in comey's speech from grossly negligent (which is a crime ) to careless (which isnt ) even though the evidence warranted the prior wording .

i have handled classified information and what she did was against the law and the bs reasoning she gave are lies . you cant be a sec of state and not know what the "c " was . . everyone who handles classified information gets trained on this . if she faked the training she again broke the law . if she handled classified information without the training she broke the law .

add to it that 6 foriegn powers hacked her server and got the classified information

now i am supposed to buy that 30000 subpoened emails were all about a wedding ? she bleached bit the emails and i am supposed to buy there was nothing incriminating there ? cant even be skeptical ? then she smashed her blackberries ? cant be skeptical there either ? no obstruction there either huh , just business as usual and i am a conspiracy nut for even scratching my head ?

the people that allowed this to go on are the same people mueller has/had on his team and i cant be skeptical of the motives here ? 2 yrs and no collusion evidence at all . tons of rumors about smoking guns that all go to the scrap heap of broken dreams

why hasnt the DNC let the FBI look at their hacked servers ? "hey FBI we've been hacked " FBI "lets us look at the servers " DNC "nevermind "

how that happens in this country is beyond me ? the FBI storm trooped cohens office but they say "pretty please" to the DNC but that is fair , right ebb

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Yes everybody knows the dossier is connected to hillary and fusion gps. That isnt shady. Steele has even worked with the fbi previously. He went to the fbi on his own with the dossier. The fbi used the dossier as a part of the information they presented to the fisa court to get the warrant. They did disclose that it was likely opposition research and Steeles history. They also presented other information they had. Since they already had started an investigation we know that the dossier was not the only piece of the puzzle and was likely not a massive part. Furthermore the warrant was renewed which means that the warrant was likely found to be justified the first.

Also Obama did not wiretap his campaign or put spies in it. That is beyond bullshit. That is simply not what happened. I cant stress this enough - you are buying into conspiracy theories. For your own sake just consider that maybe you have been lied to.

Strzok and page did not like trump at all. We know that. We DO NOT know that they acted on that in any way. For one, it would have been very difficult for them to as Strzok pointed out the other day. That is not how the fbi works. Secondly, strzok would have had every oppprtunity to actually do something and release the fact that the trump campaign was being investigated during the campaign and yet he did not do that. And thirdly strzok was one of the agents actually pushing for even more thorough investigation of hillary. We simply do not have any evidence that he or page acted inapporproately in any way as fbi agents.

Because the investigation was considered largely complete at that time and unlikely to change barring a confession from hillary in the interview.

Yes mueller indicted 12 russians for hacking the DNC. Thank you for providing further evidence that Russia was working to harm Hillarys campaign.

Rosenstein said that no americans were involved in the indictments of the russians...which is involved because...theyre russians.

Rosenstein DID NOT say that no americans are involved in this investigation or that no americans have or will be found guilty. He was only referring to yesterdays indictments. To pass that off as something more is incredibly dishonest.

Im sorry what? How is rosenstein guilty in this now?

And that is exactly why the wording is changed. The fbi did not feel that prosecution was justified and wanted to avoid phrasing with a legal meaning that was the opposite of that. Thats a pretty simple explanation rather than a conspiracy theory.

We shall see what the mueller investigation turns up. If it concludes with no evidence then you can say they found nothing. Until then if you want to claim you know what they have or dont have youre just parroting partisan talking points.

As for the server they still looked at the server. You dont need the literal server to investigate it. The copy of the server serves the same purpose. Also...the DNC wasnt being investigated for the hacking. They were the victims of the hacking. You have to know the difference between being the focus of an investigation and being the victim of what the investigation is about.

So yes that is fair to not break down the doors of the dnc but to do it to cohen. There is a clear and complete difference in those scenarios.

skinsdad62 said:

Establishment Rino who hated Trump

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According to you anybody who criticizes trump is a trump hater who wants to see him fail.

You do realize the logical fallacy that creates right?

HTTR08 said:

Its looking as if he'll get more accomplished in two to three years than Bush or Obummer did in 16 years

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How do you figure?

ehb5 said:

Also Obama did not wiretap his campaign or put spies in it. That is beyond bullshit. That is simply not what happened. I cant stress this enough - you are buying into conspiracy theories. For your own sake just consider that maybe you have been lied to.

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It has to be about Trump hate, and Trump has to be totally innocent.

Otherwise some people will have ot come to grips with the realization that they voted for and continued to support not only a questionable individual on a personal level. Which I find odd considering all the fine upstanding Christians that support him, but I doubt would trust him with their money or daughter.

But more over, if Trump is complicite, it means folks sold a part of their soul to support a questionable individual who may in fact be a traitor as well.

HTTR08 said:

No test. I'm just trying to figure out your hatred for the man and his policies.

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Hatred or not let me help you.

His trade policy is awful.

His immigration policy is awful.

Hes harming the fight against climate change.

He thinks climate change is a lie made up by the chinese.

Hes a racist, sexist ahole with no respect for our military, our intelligence community, our press, or our government.

He lies nonstop.

Hes a morally awful human being.

He has no idea what hes talking about most of the time and just babbles incoherently.

He has appointed several incompetent people to positions within the government many of which have already been forced out for a variety of reasons including corruption.

Im sure im forgetting a few things but that should give you a decent idea.

Now do you want to actually join the discussion and try to refute that or is your contribution going to continue to be limited to the weird unsourced trump love posts with nothing to back them up?

Sharkinva said:

The latest indictment alleges that Russian intelligence officers hacked into the website of a yet-unidentified state board of elections. Among other new information, it alleges Russia used that hack to steal information related to 500,000 voters. That figure’s surprising. We already know that hackers targeted election systems in 21 states and allegedly hacked into the computers of a private U.S. elections systems vendor. (The indictment did not name the vendor, but details seem to match a reported hack of the company VR Systems; VR Systems has denied any breach had occurred.) But, thus far, officials have only confirmed that databases from the Illinois election systems had ever actually been compromised. What’s more, reports previously indicated the records of only about 100,000 voters had been accessed in the Illinois breach. That means the reach of Russia’s infiltration of election systems likely went deeper than we’d understood.

The truth is: We can never have 100 percent unhackable elections.
Perhaps most importantly, as Wired’s Kim Zetter identifies, the indictments suggest the Russians’ attack against U.S. election infrastructure may have been an afterthought. The indictment puts the research and execution of the state board of election and vendor attacks in June through October of 2016—well into the election, and months after the initial hacks of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s campaign. As she notes, we would be wise to assume future attacks will involve more advanced planning. Combine this with the fact that the Russians undoubtedly learned information from their 2016 efforts, and there is reason to believe future attacks on our election infrastructure could be far more damaging.

The good news is that many officials tasked with protecting our election infrastructure take this threat seriously. Election officials, the Department of Homeland Security, and the federal Election Assistance Commission have all been working diligently to ensure they can catch and prevent future attempts to breach election infrastructure. Congress has provided states with $380 million to increase election system security. A new government coordinating councilnow allows the federal government and local election officials to share information like never before. And many states have made serious investments in new security.



Mueller’s Latest Indictment Suggests Russia’s Infiltration of U.S. Election Systems Could Get Worse

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I don’t see anything about hacking voting machines.

I see databases of information which is a totally different connotation than hacking voting machines.

HTTR08 said:

Hows that great city of Chicago doing with all those gun laws?

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Sharkinva said:

When Fox News hits the WTF button.... will this make you guys think beyond Trump good progress bad???

Donald Trump's Allegiance to Russian President Vladimir Putin is Denounced by Usually Reliable Supporters at Fox News, GOP

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Again, I have already said I think he handled this stupidly. I don’t need FOX news to think freely. I do understand why he would trust Putin over the intelligence agencies.

gkekoa said:

Again, I have already said I think he handled this stupidly. I don’t need FOX news to think freely. I do understand why he would trust Putin over the intelligence agencies.

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I sure as hell dont.

gkekoa said:

I don’t see anything about hacking voting machines.

I see databases of information which is a totally different connotation than hacking voting machines.

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I stand corrected. They only hacked voter information. SO you are right.. that makes it much better.