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Umm, So what is so great about the T'Wolves right now???

trojanfan12

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lol

you are actually arguing that drafting Sam Bowie over Jodran was not a mistake.

Just think of that. Lol...think of what you are saying please for the love of God.

Your inability to use anything other than hindsight just shows how little you actually know about basketball.

As I said, in hindsight, it was a mistake. However, at the time of the draft and going by only the information they had available at the time, anyone who knows anything about the game, knows that it wasn't a mistake.

It's really that simple, but apparently too complicated for you to grasp.
 

shopson67

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Was it?

Oden had a better rookie year than Durant.

It was bad luck that his body just completely disintegrated.

In what world? Oden averaged 8.9 pts, 7 reb and 1.1 blocks and only managed 39 starts in 61 games. Durant averaged 20/4.4 reb/0.9 blocks in 80 starts in 80 games and was rookie of the year.
 

The Q

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In what world? Oden averaged 8.9 pts, 7 reb and 1.1 blocks and only managed 39 starts in 61 games. Durant averaged 20/4.4 reb/0.9 blocks in 80 starts in 80 games and was rookie of the year.

VORP.
 

The Q

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Excuse you. VORP is crap, puts Malone and Barkley over Jabbar for chrissakes.

ROY.

They didn’t have the same rookie year due to injury.

But it’s a fun talking point.
 

Nosferatu

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Not sure if I need to use hindsight but Jonny Flynn over Steph might have been a mistake. Being a Wolves fan is a punishment that never stops!
 

WiggyRuss

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Your inability to use anything other than hindsight just shows how little you actually know about basketball.

As I said, in hindsight, it was a mistake. However, at the time of the draft and going by only the information they had available at the time, anyone who knows anything about the game, knows that it wasn't a mistake.

It's really that simple, but apparently too complicated for you to grasp.
what you are totally failing to comprehend is that its his JOB to have the best information to make the best decision with.

If he fails, its because he failed to do his job. You can try and pretty up the circumstances around the decision- but when it comes down to it these guys are paid to be right. He was not right. He was absolutely 100% totally and irrevocably wrong in the selection that he made. His motives for making the decision at the time he made it are irrelevant. Its a prettied up excuse.

The Browns got an A grade on their draft of Manziel and Gilbert. They had 2 first round picks- a top 10 selection and a later first rounder. Many online forums gave them sparkling grades saying THIS was the draft that would turn around the Cleveland Browns. They had good reasons for making the selections that they made. In the end- they were wrong, and it can be construed as nothing except a failure.

Whatever process, whatever information they had, whatever information they valued, whatever methods they employed to make the selections - was wrong. Just totally 100% wrong. They made huge mistakes. No amount of national consensus, or logic at the time, or set of circumstances excuses that.

They were hired to do a job. They failed in doing their job and missed out on a huge opportunity and burned valuable assets. Its the same exact thing with Bowie and Jordan. Whatever method they employed, whatever criteria they had, whatever process they used, -- it failed them- and failed them miserably.

You are accountable for how things turn out- not for your logic at the time. No one gives a shit about your logic at the time years down the line when Saw Bowie is a nothing and Jordan is winning MVP's. You made the wrong pick. Your process, your set of criteria, etc. failed you. There is no 2 ways about it.
 

WiggyRuss

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@trojanfan12 flip the script and think of it from the other perspective.

The Thunder took Westbrook 4th. Much higher than many thought he would go. At the time, the general consensus was that RW was not worthy of a top 5 pick...

obviously, in hindsight, it was a great pick.

Do we not grade that pick in hindsight?

or do you say- it was a bad pick ,because the information at the time that was readily avaliable says he was over drafted.

Its either one or the other. Do we say OKC was stupid for picking RW that high? If you are not using hindsight, how do you say otherwise? You cant if you are being consistent.

the only way to go grade player draft picks, trades, signings, etc. is how they turn out. GM's are paid for how their moves turn out. Not how they appear at the time their moves are executed.
 

WiggyRuss

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I mean when it comes down to it- this is fundamental common sense.

If Colin Sexton fails as a draft pick- no one is going to say "well at the time it made sense". They are going to say- you Koby Altman, wanted Colin Sexton, chose him over Knox, Bridges, etc.- and those players are better. You failed at your job. Whatever process you used, whatever information you had etc. led you to the wrong decision.

If the signings of Rondo, Stephensen, McGee, KCP either turn out or dont turn out well- you cant defend the decision by saying "well- this was the logic at the time and it made sense". The logic at hte time is irrelevant. Whatever process brought you to that logic was faulty or, conversely, solid. Who cares what they thought at the time. What actually matters is how the guys perform.

when choosing how to grade draft picks, trades, signings--- it seems, and if i am wrong please correct me, it seems that you are saying you grade those things on whether the logic they based their decision on at the time was good or not. I am saying their logic is irrelevant. That the only thing that matters is how the players ACTUALLY turn out and do.

To grade transactions on anything except their results seems crazy.
 

DJ

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Novels being written in here on a Monday.
 

WiggyRuss

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Novels being written in here on a Monday.
DJ...

after DeMarcus Russell failed with the Raiders, what did you say?

Hey it was a good draft pick because at the time everyone thought this guy was a major talent?

or

What the fuck were they thinking picking this schmuck #1 overall?
 

DJ

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DJ...

after DeMarcus Russell failed with the Raiders, what did you say?

Hey it was a good draft pick because at the time everyone thought this guy was a major talent?

or

What the fuck were they thinking picking this schmuck #1 overall?

Who is DeMarcus Russell?
 

WiggyRuss

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Who is DeMarcus Russell?
my mistake...i mean the big fat QB from LSU


JAMARCUS!!!!


were you like

"Well- a lot of people thought JaMarcus was going to be good- I understand why the picked him"

or

"That guy fucking SUCKED and was a waste of a #1 overall pick what were they thinking?"
 

shopson67

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my mistake...i mean the big fat QB from LSU


JAMARCUS!!!!


were you like

"Well- a lot of people thought JaMarcus was going to be good- I understand why the picked him"

or

"That guy fucking SUCKED and was a waste of a #1 overall pick what were they thinking?"

He was all projection from the start and a very poor choice. That was a definite risk play. Jawalrus had a bit of a weight issue to boot...
 

trojanfan12

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what you are totally failing to comprehend is that its his JOB to have the best information to make the best decision with.

If he fails, its because he failed to do his job. You can try and pretty up the circumstances around the decision- but when it comes down to it these guys are paid to be right. He was not right. He was absolutely 100% totally and irrevocably wrong in the selection that he made. His motives for making the decision at the time he made it are irrelevant. Its a prettied up excuse.

The Browns got an A grade on their draft of Manziel and Gilbert. They had 2 first round picks- a top 10 selection and a later first rounder. Many online forums gave them sparkling grades saying THIS was the draft that would turn around the Cleveland Browns. They had good reasons for making the selections that they made. In the end- they were wrong, and it can be construed as nothing except a failure.

Whatever process, whatever information they had, whatever information they valued, whatever methods they employed to make the selections - was wrong. Just totally 100% wrong. They made huge mistakes. No amount of national consensus, or logic at the time, or set of circumstances excuses that.

They were hired to do a job. They failed in doing their job and missed out on a huge opportunity and burned valuable assets. Its the same exact thing with Bowie and Jordan. Whatever method they employed, whatever criteria they had, whatever process they used, -- it failed them- and failed them miserably.

You are accountable for how things turn out- not for your logic at the time. No one gives a shit about your logic at the time years down the line when Saw Bowie is a nothing and Jordan is winning MVP's. You made the wrong pick. Your process, your set of criteria, etc. failed you. There is no 2 ways about it.

That's a lot of words just to show you're wrong.
 

shopson67

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The Browns got an A grade on their draft of Manziel and Gilbert. They had 2 first round picks- a top 10 selection and a later first rounder. Many online forums gave them sparkling grades saying THIS was the draft that would turn around the Cleveland Browns. They had good reasons for making the selections that they made. In the end- they were wrong, and it can be construed as nothing except a failure.

Anyone who gave the selection of Manziel an A grade was either a Browns homer or an Aggie homer. Don't act shocked when Mayfield flops too.
 

tlance

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lol

you are actually arguing that drafting Sam Bowie over Jodran was not a mistake.

Just think of that. Lol...think of what you are saying please for the love of God.

It is ironic because I think if that same draft were made today, Jordan goes no lower than 2. Also, I am almost positive KD would have been selected over Oden.

Until very recently, it was widely believed that you needed dominate big men to win in the NBA and that perimeter play was a luxury. Today it is almost exactly the opposite. That is why I do think it was a big mistake taking Ayton and Bagley over Doncic.

While hindsight has proven MJ and KD to be far superior players, it is very easy to understand why the teams who passed did what they did.
 

trojanfan12

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@trojanfan12 flip the script and think of it from the other perspective.

The Thunder took Westbrook 4th. Much higher than many thought he would go. At the time, the general consensus was that RW was not worthy of a top 5 pick...

obviously, in hindsight, it was a great pick.

Do we not grade that pick in hindsight?

or do you say- it was a bad pick ,because the information at the time that was readily avaliable says he was over drafted.

Its either one or the other. Do we say OKC was stupid for picking RW that high? If you are not using hindsight, how do you say otherwise? You cant if you are being consistent.

the only way to go grade player draft picks, trades, signings, etc. is how they turn out. GM's are paid for how their moves turn out. Not how they appear at the time their moves are executed.

If you can't tell the difference between the Blazers picking Bowie over MJ when they already had a Hall of Fame level SG on their team and the Thunder taking a chance on Westbrook. You can't be helped.
 
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