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Where do the Lakers go from here...?

DJ

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If anyone should know that, it would be the coaching staff that works with him on a daily basis. He was even benched by Walton for a period, which seemed to refocus him. Dismissing an emerging player as "it might have been fools gold" is foolish and/or just looking for an excuse not to pay him. They scouted him, drafted him, coached him up and developed him, resisted trading him, and now they should just let him go?
Only if the alternatives make us a legit contender.

Randle doesn't.
 

Heatles84

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If you are so sure, what are these offers that a team will make without any assurance that Kawhi won't leave next summer as a free agent?

Someone will make a decent offer to the Spurs, it's the NBA, Kawhi will make a pretty significant shift. If LA ties up their cap space, then Kawhi can't simply go there and sign for the max.
 

flyerhawk

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Oddly enough, there was an article about trading for Lebron (strange enough, since they can get him as a free agent outright) that suggested every scenario included Ball from Cleveland's end.

As far as a Leonard trade, it would HAVE to include the Deng contract to make the money work. The only question is whether a third team would have to be included to get that done (if the Spurs show any interest in helping him to the Lakers anyway). The only way the Lakers get him by trade is if he scares off everyone else by saying he won't re-sign with them (like George last year, although that hasn't proven out just yet either).

Why would the Lakers need to give back money? They are under the cap.
 

flyerhawk

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Sorry, but NO. Giving up on Russell is far different, as he was not progressing and was proving to be far too childish and coasting instead of working hard to learn the offense. He was deemed expendable for the greater good. Ingram HAS progressed and I expect to see more of that this year. Whether or not they add multiple max players? Doesn't really matter to me, as I have always been in this for the long haul. I'd rather see these kids grow into star players and have the Lakers win with one key addition than throw all these years of growth away for the quick fix. There will be new options each year to build around. They could get Paul George this year, maybe add Jimmy Butler next year, that would be very solid, especially with guys like Randle, Ball, Ingram and Kuzma growing as a unit around them.

You may believe that Ingram has more upside, which is perfectly fine. My point was that getting rid of the Mozgov contract cost a No. 2 pick going into his 3rd season. Even with his issues, that was pretty nice asset to give up.
 

shopson67

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You may believe that Ingram has more upside, which is perfectly fine. My point was that getting rid of the Mozgov contract cost a No. 2 pick going into his 3rd season. Even with his issues, that was pretty nice asset to give up.

Would you consider a #3 pick from that same draft to be a pretty nice asset?
 

shopson67

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Someone will make a decent offer to the Spurs, it's the NBA, Kawhi will make a pretty significant shift. If LA ties up their cap space, then Kawhi can't simply go there and sign for the max.

LA is not going to tie up their cap space unless it's for a significant player. Maybe if they get George and Lebron they won't worry about Kawhi, or whichever other team that trades for Kawhi realizes he's gone that summer and tries to trade him at the deadline and the Lakers get him that way. All of this is such speculation that it makes little sense to worry about until at least one of these moves happens. I wouldn't expect anything before the draft.
 

trojanfan12

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Why would the Lakers need to give back money? They are under the cap.

Because if the Lakers simply stretch Deng, they will only be able to sign 2 max players.

If they want to "hit the FA lotto" and get Lebron, PG and Kawhi, they have to include Deng in a trade because just stretching him doesn't free up enough cap space.
 

shopson67

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Only if the alternatives make us a legit contender.

Randle doesn't.

I never suggested keeping Randle instead of a major free agent. I'm merely weighing the merits of Randle vs Kuzma.
 

trojanfan12

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You may believe that Ingram has more upside, which is perfectly fine. My point was that getting rid of the Mozgov contract cost a No. 2 pick going into his 3rd season. Even with his issues, that was pretty nice asset to give up.

It's only a nice asset if that player pans out or if it's a pick in an upcoming draft.

On paper, I agree that giving up the #2 seems like a pretty big cost just to get rid of Mozgov's contract.

But when you consider that it was a player who was no longer going to be part of the Lakers future and that it puts them in position to land 2 max guys.

It really wasn't much to give up.
 

Heatles84

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It's only a nice asset if that player pans out or if it's a pick in an upcoming draft.

On paper, I agree that giving up the #2 seems like a pretty big cost just to get rid of Mozgov's contract.

But when you consider that it was a player who was no longer going to be part of the Lakers future and that it puts them in position to land 2 max guys.

It really wasn't much to give up.

The move made complete sense. Shoot your shot. It's better to take your shot at potentially getting Lebron and another all star rather than hold onto a bad contract and wonder what if. Worst case scenario in this instance - Lebron doesn't sign with the Lakers. Keep on rebuilding and wait for Deng to get off that contract.
 

trojanfan12

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Whether or not they add multiple max players? Doesn't really matter to me, as I have always been in this for the long haul. I'd rather see these kids grow into star players and have the Lakers win with one key addition than throw all these years of growth away for the quick fix. There will be new options each year to build around. They could get Paul George this year, maybe add Jimmy Butler next year, that would be very solid, especially with guys like Randle, Ball, Ingram and Kuzma growing as a unit around them.

That's pretty much where I'm at on this.

Obviously, I'd love to see them get 2 max guys or even pull off getting Lebron, PG and Kawhi. But I wouldn't consider it a failure if they don't.

What I would consider a failure is if they pulled a Short Buss panic move and overpaid 2nd or 3rd tier guys just to say they did something.

Magic has said they won't do that. But there is also going to be some pressure put on him to "get something done." Hopefully he doesn't let that get to him.
 

trojanfan12

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The move made complete sense. Shoot your shot. It's better to take your shot at potentially getting Lebron and another all star rather than hold onto a bad contract and wonder what if. Worst case scenario in this instance - Lebron doesn't sign with the Lakers. Keep on rebuilding and wait for Deng to get off that contract.

Exactly. Worst case scenario...they don't sign any top FA's. Then they (likely) bring back Randle at an appropriate contract, sign a couple of guys to Lopez/KCP type deals, spend another year developing the kids and try again next year when there's a deeper FA group, Deng's contract is easier to move because it will be expiring and they can still trade Randle if necessary/desirable.
 

Heatles84

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Exactly. Worst case scenario...they don't sign any top FA's. Then they (likely) bring back Randle at an appropriate contract, sign a couple of guys to Lopez/KCP type deals, spend another year developing the kids and try again next year when there's a deeper FA group, Deng's contract is easier to move because it will be expiring and they can still trade Randle if necessary/desirable.

On another note, thank god 6-year deals aren't a thing anymore.
 

shopson67

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The move made complete sense. Shoot your shot. It's better to take your shot at potentially getting Lebron and another all star rather than hold onto a bad contract and wonder what if. Worst case scenario in this instance - Lebron doesn't sign with the Lakers. Keep on rebuilding and wait for Deng to get off that contract.

Doesn't hurt that they struck gold with the Nets pick by drafting Kuzma, a better prospect at this point than Russell.
 

Heatles84

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Doesn't hurt that they struck gold with the Nets pick by drafting Kuzma, a better prospect at this point than Russell.

Yup. It helped lessen the sting of having to trade away a number 2 pick. But looking at Kuzma this year, there didn't seem to be any drop off in production compared to what Russell was providing when he was in LA at the very least.
 

Heatles84

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Yep. If they were, Short Buss no doubt would have given those to Mozgov and Deng. :L

In that hypothetical scenario, I think it would've absolutely crushed the Lakers. That's one great thing about the CBA is that free agent signings can only go 4 years max unless a team has Bird Rights which grants that 5th year.
 

tlance

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Because if the Lakers simply stretch Deng, they will only be able to sign 2 max players.

If they want to "hit the FA lotto" and get Lebron, PG and Kawhi, they have to include Deng in a trade because just stretching him doesn't free up enough cap space.

I am telling you.

The 3 team deal proposed by @Arizona_Sting is brilliant.

San Antonio will be hard pressed to find a better return than that haul, and Phoenix has their future core ready to go with plenty of cap space to work with in the summer of 2020. The benefit for the Lakers is beyond obvious.
 
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