Phil needs to apologize and then withdraw

ATL96Steeler · Jun 18, 2018

4down20 said:
He broke a rule so he should suffer the consequences of such a thing.

But to be offended and outraged over it? It's not like he got away with it or anything. I could understand then.

And as far as anyone calling him a cheater and getting a better score because of it even with the penalty, if that is truly the case then that's more the course is fucked up. In the end, the rules were followed.

Rule...Agreed.

In the end...yes, they interpreted Phil's action in a manner that would hopefully not make the 2018 narrative all about the "unfair conditions".

Rex Racer · Jun 18, 2018

ATL96Steeler said:
It clearly was intentional...I don't think that part is in question...he didn't break into jog to mark it.

On the other players...I agree, but not to a man because there were players who wondered aloud why Phil was not DQ'd.

Conditions...with a SAT weather forecast in hand on Friday evening the USGA had a choice...put water on the course water or not. Idk what they actually did but the course played fine okay until the wind and sun dried out the course in the afternoon. So...if the USGA made a mistake it was the pin placements on maybe 3 holes...granted, that's enough to effect a tournament, but with wider FWs the USGA was not for blood imo.

2nd...apparently the players never got a practice round with the course at baked out speed and that Sat pin on 18...most guys were facing that putt from above the pin for the 1st time with baked out greens.

At the end of it...I think you're right, the USGA decided not to DQ Phil to basically not make the entire 2018 USO narrative about the course conditions. Lessor of two evils.

They should have watered it more than they did. They know as you and I both do that windy conditions suck the moisture out of a golf course and things would get really slick as the day wore on.

As I said earlier, I enjoy the difficult set-ups and want the Open to be the hardest event of the year, but...............................

R.J. MacReady · Jun 18, 2018

I find this renewed vigor for enforcing the rules for golf very intresting
Even asking for a withdrawal when the rules don't even call for it.

And yet not that long ago if a golf fan watching from home who witnessed a clear rules violation and called it in ....well some of you here thought the poor slob calling it in was the problem and not the rules violation itself.

Many of you applauded the end of the fan call in. So if find this sudden righteousness in some .....well interesting.

ATL96Steeler · Jun 18, 2018

Rex Racer said:
They should have watered it more than they did. They know as you and I both do that windy conditions suck the moisture out of a golf course and things would get really slick as the day wore on.

As I said earlier, I enjoy the difficult set-ups and want the Open to be the hardest event of the year, but...............................

Hindsight is always 20/20....if they we going to cut pins that close to the edge more water would help, but as I mentioned earlier...Andy North kinda nailed it...this course changes more from morning to afternoon that others because of where it is.

I'm sure they watered the hell out of it Sat night and still only 15 players broke par on Sunday.

I'm with you...defender of Par, is the US Open...you want to see it tough.

The Masters is my favorite major, but the R&A has best setup concept imo...they truly let mother nature control it...sometimes -8 might win, other times -18 might win...they don't care as much about trying to control the score once it starts.

Cyder · Jun 18, 2018

Rex Racer said:
If the rules committee had claimed that his action was an intentional breach of the rules and DQ'd Phil they would have left the USGA open to a shitstorm of criticism from pretty much every player in the tourney. As it was they were getting blasted by anyone who had a microphone put in front of them.

I realize that the U.S. Open is almost always set-up as if a masochist was given the keys to the course for a few months prior to the event and the players almost always leave the venue bitchin and moaning, but like many have already stated, the conditions and pin placements on Saturday combined to make a number of the holes borderline "unplayable" and by their (the USGA) own admission they screwed up and crossed the line.

Personally, I always enjoy watching the best golfers in the world struggle to make par and that makes the U.S. Open my favorite tournament of the year. I just happen to think that they went too far on Saturday.

My problem with Saturday was that the guys who went out early had such a major advantage it was ridiculous. You expect that somewhat, especially at the British Open over the years, but this time the course really got away from them

GNG · Jun 18, 2018

Zooky said:
Using the rules to your advantage is one thing.
Intentionally breaking the rules is another.

The whole making fun of himself routine may have appeared fun at the time, but the truth of the matter is, he snapped.
Phil would have endeared himself to even his worst critics, if he would have said, what I did was not within the spirit of the game, and therefore I am withdrawing from the championship.

As I said before Phil offered to withdraw and his worst critics would still criticize him if he did withdraw.

SoCalWizFan · Jun 18, 2018

Guns N Guitars said:
As I said before Phil offered to withdraw and his worst critics would still criticize him if he did withdraw.

Very true but the same would have been true for similar for critics of Tiger, Rory, Daly, Poulter, Sergio, Reed, etc, etc. It is just the world we live in at this time. A big factor is also the amt of media attn. for this type of thing. For a lot of the weekend this was a bigger story than the actual tourney which is a bit ridiculous when you consider that Mickelson was near the bottom of the list on Sat.

Zooky · Jun 18, 2018

Guns N Guitars said:
As I said before Phil offered to withdraw and his worst critics would still criticize him if he did withdraw.

Mickelson claimed that he hit his moving ball to gain a scoring advantage.

That should've been enough for a disqualification -- if not under Rule 1-2, then under Rule 33-7, which gives the USGA authority to DQ a player for a serious breach of etiquette.

This was a serious breach.
If it were one of the lesser known players, it is likely that they would have been disqualified.
Does that put blame on the USGA as well. Sure it does.

GNG · Jun 18, 2018

Zooky said:
Mickelson claimed that he hit his moving ball to gain a scoring advantage.

That should've been enough for a disqualification -- if not under Rule 1-2, then under Rule 33-7, which gives the USGA authority to DQ a player for a serious breach of etiquette.

This was a serious breach.
If it were one of the lesser known players, it is likely that they would have been disqualified.
Does that put blame on the USGA as well. Sure it does.

I don't believe that rules violation deserved a disqualification and neither did the USGA.

GNG · Jun 18, 2018

I was extremely disappointed in the condition of the greens at Shinnecock. Some of them were almost unplayable. The USGA gets a blackeye for this.

Wazmankg · Jun 18, 2018

R.J. MacReady said:
I find this renewed vigor for enforcing the rules for golf very intresting
Even asking for a withdrawal when the rules don't even call for it.

And yet not that long ago if a golf fan watching from home who witnessed a clear rules violation and called it in ....well some of you here thought the poor slob calling it in was the problem and not the rules violation itself.

Many of you applauded the end of the fan call in. So if find this sudden righteousness in some .....well interesting.

Yeah, but this was something shocking even to the most casual golfer. Most people break rules routinely they aren't even aware exist. But everyone knew this was wrong and in extremely bad form.

I hope he comes off his silly excuse and admits he was just pissed and did it in the spur of the moment.

But if he doesn't it won't stick to him. It just isn't that big of a deal in the long run.

gohusk · Jun 18, 2018

ill said:
I don't have a problem with the course being a challenge to the best golfers in the world. There were times when it was a little ridiculous, but I don't think it was a mockery. It feels like every few years the US Open is played on some course and some conditions that own the players. I think I would rather see that then a -15 scorecard.

It was the same thing at Chambers Bay, but it was the perfect storm for that course. No rain for like a month leading up to the event and the greens weren't ready. All the USGA had to do to improve the conditions was to let them water the greens to make sure that they don't turn into broccoli by the end of the day. But even with that there were Oos and McIlroy were able to put together runs in the 4th round because they just ignored it and played aggressively.

And I don't think this course should be dropped. The USGA just has to let them water the fucking greens when the conditions warrant it. With the wind and these mound greens it's tough enough even when the greens are softer.

TheStarOne · Jun 19, 2018

Phil acted like a baby....It's easy to play golf when everything is great, but it's tough to be embarrassed by incompetence. It was not an incident by a drunk, on a Saturday afternoon, at the local course.
It was the U.S Open. And if Phil couldn't handle it, he could have walked off the course.

And to all the golf fans who criticized Lexi Thompson, Dustin Johnson, and Tiger Woods....where are you now?

NEhomer · Jun 19, 2018

TheStarOne said:
Phil acted like a baby....It's easy to play golf when everything is great, but it's tough to be embarrassed by incompetence. It was not an incident by a drunk, on a Saturday afternoon, at the local course.
It was the U.S Open. And if Phil couldn't handle it, he could have walked off the course.

And to all the golf fans who criticized Lexi Thompson, Dustin Johnson, and Tiger Woods....where are you now?

And to all the golf fans who criticized Lexi Thompson, Dustin Johnson, and Tiger Woods....where are you now?

Um, who's defending Phil?

R.J. MacReady · Jun 19, 2018

Lebron got far less heat from the sports media from breaking his own hand after game 1 of the finals then Phil is getting.

R.J. MacReady · Jun 19, 2018

TheStarOne said:
Phil acted like a baby....It's easy to play golf when everything is great, but it's tough to be embarrassed by incompetence. It was not an incident by a drunk, on a Saturday afternoon, at the local course.
It was the U.S Open. And if Phil couldn't handle it, he could have walked off the course.

And to all the golf fans who criticized Lexi Thompson, Dustin Johnson, and Tiger Woods....where are you now?

Tiger & lexi broke the rules and were initially not getting a penalty ....so different scenario buttercup.

And i don't anyone who criticized DJ when he grounded his club in that sand trap. He fucked up and got the penalty.

.

ATL96Steeler · Jun 19, 2018

gohusk said:
It was the same thing at Chambers Bay, but it was the perfect storm for that course. No rain for like a month leading up to the event and the greens weren't ready. All the USGA had to do to improve the conditions was to let them water the greens to make sure that they don't turn into broccoli by the end of the day. But even with that there were Oos and McIlroy were able to put together runs in the 4th round because they just ignored it and played aggressively.

And I don't think this course should be dropped. The USGA just has to let them water the fucking greens when the conditions warrant it. With the wind and these mound greens it's tough enough even when the greens are softer.

I wouldn't take it out of the rotation either.

Watering the course during the round is shaky at best...but the reality is...this particular golf course is always going to be a tale of two courses...morning and late afternoon. Where the USGA "lost it" imo was compounding the degree of difficulty by tucking the pins and not putting any water on it.

SoCalWizFan · Jun 19, 2018

gohusk said:
It was the same thing at Chambers Bay, but it was the perfect storm for that course. No rain for like a month leading up to the event and the greens weren't ready. All the USGA had to do to improve the conditions was to let them water the greens to make sure that they don't turn into broccoli by the end of the day. But even with that there were Oos and McIlroy were able to put together runs in the 4th round because they just ignored it and played aggressively.

And I don't think this course should be dropped. The USGA just has to let them water the fucking greens when the conditions warrant it. With the wind and these mound greens it's tough enough even when the greens are softer.

Chambers Bay was the worst. Forget about the players bitching about it - the tourney was almost unwatchable. You could hardly see the ball most of the time. Just a bad experience.

ATL96Steeler · Jun 19, 2018

SoCalWizFan said:
Chambers Bay was the worst. Forget about the players bitching about it - the tourney was almost unwatchable. You could hardly see the ball most of the time. Just a bad experience.

From what I recall about Chambers Bay was most cosmetic...didn't realize they lost that setup as well.

gohusk · Jun 19, 2018

SoCalWizFan said:
Chambers Bay was the worst. Forget about the players bitching about it - the tourney was almost unwatchable. You could hardly see the ball most of the time. Just a bad experience.

I was there for the opening round and I had fun. For the fans the biggest problem was you couldn't follow a group because the only way to get from hole to hole is through the fairway. So what people did is basically camp out in a spot and watch groups go through. I liked it because you could hang out at the tee box and watch a bunch of people swing drivers, hang out in the right spot of the fairway and watch people hit irons for the approach, or hang out by a green and watch people go through and putt.

But the biggest things were the record dry month going into it, the record heat wave during it, and the pig-headed USGA not letting them water the greens. The course obviously wasn't ready but there was a lot of bad luck that was involved in what happened as well. They're in the process of rebuilding the greens right now so if there's ever another tournament there it should look a bit better.

Phil needs to apologize and then withdraw

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