2018 Roster Expectations

calsnowskier said:

They could get out of paying him? How does that work?

Why don’t the Giants DFA Pence?

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His contract is non-guaranteed by nature. Since he's arbitration eligible he's making a larger sum than guys still pre-arb, but the entire group still falls under the same umbrella. Technically the Giants could do the same with Sam Dyson right now and save some cash. It would make sense to me if the Giants were about to sign a CFer or something.

For the Rays it doesn't make any sense to me.

MarcoPolo said:

Yes on 1, 2 and 3. The order on waivers (at this point) is reverse order of last season's W-L record, independant of league. (In Aug/Sep, revocable waivers first clear every team in the same league, then go to the other league - but not now.) And yes, if claimed or traded the new team pays his salary. Dickerson has more than 3 years service time, so he can refuse being outrighted to the minors (as if he is going to clear waivers). Since he has a signed contract - it is in force, and he will be paid whatever his contract says - even when playing in the minors. He also has LESS than 5 years service time, so if he refuses his assignment, he walks away from his contract.




Normally, contracts are guaranteed. HOWEVER, there's a weird case: if a player has a one year contract, and he is released before a certain date of spring training, he only gets a portion of his contract, and become a free agent (2 dates actually - he is paid more if released later; "16 days or more before start of season": 30 days pay, "between 16 and 1 days before start of season": 45 days pay).

Concerning Pence :
- he isn't on a 1 year contract, so the entirety of his remaining contract is guaranteed even if only a year
- I remember sooooooo many people saying that Pence was worth his contract, even if he sucked the last couple of years of his contract. Time to eat crow, folks.

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So, then as long as the Tigres don't claim him, he's ours if we want him, but we have to pay him $6MM?

tzill said:

So, then as long as the Tigres don't claim him, he's ours if we want him, but we have to pay him $6MM?

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I am not certain he is a good fit for us, though.

Left handed hitter with bad defense...

calsnowskier said:

I am not certain he is a good fit for us, though.

Left handed hitter with bad defense...

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IIRC, #25 was a left-handed hitter with bad defense, at least towards the end.

Stokes1931 said:

IIRC, #25 was a left-handed hitter with bad defense, at least towards the end.

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This is disappointing... though I'm sure other fan bases were saying the same thing about Tony Watson at 3/7

The NL West could be brutal this year.

4 legit playoff contenders.

calsnowskier said:

The NL West could be brutal this year.

4 legit playoff contenders.

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The Padres have Eric Hosmer. The rest of the NL doesn't stand a chance.

Rumor has it the contract is for $4 million. For that price, and length of contract, I'd much rather the Giants had signed him over Austin Jackson.

LHG said:

Rumor has it the contract is for $4 million. For that price, and length of contract, I'd much rather the Giants had signed him over Austin Jackson.

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Same. Giants were brought up in connection to him earlier in the offseason...... but I don't think it was ever a potential fit given the former rift between him and Bumgarner.

Granted that was 3 years ago and it's not likely either guy has thought about it much since buuuuttttt probably would have created an odd tension.

Also maybe Gomez's price was higher earlier and only recently came down out of desperation.

SFGRTB said:

Same. Giants were brought up in connection to him earlier in the offseason...... but I don't think it was ever a potential fit given the former rift between him and Bumgarner.

Granted that was 3 years ago and it's not likely either guy has thought about it much since buuuuttttt probably would have created an odd tension.

Also maybe Gomez's price was higher earlier and only recently came down out of desperation.

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I had forgotten that even happened. I'm surprised a Boras client even settled, much less for the amount Gomez got. I would have thought, in a normal offseason, he would have gotten a multi year deal for much more than 4 million per year.

Giants probably don't have the room, but he might be an interesting lotto ticket. Lefty with a mid-90s heater and nasty slider. Stuff isn't his problem, it's command.

Giants already have that in Osich, granted, so this isn't likely. But he's a very interesting arm. Has an option remaining, but they'd obviously have to clear room for him.

SFGRTB said:

Giants probably don't have the room, but he might be an interesting lotto ticket. Lefty with a mid-90s heater and nasty slider. Stuff isn't his problem, it's command.

Giants already have that in Osich, granted, so this isn't likely. But he's a very interesting arm. Has an option remaining, but they'd obviously have to clear room for him.

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If he is a clone of Osich, unless the Giants dfa Osich to make room for him, I don't see why the Giants would pick up Labourt.

LHG said:

If he is a clone of Osich, unless the Giants dfa Osich to make room for him, I don't see why the Giants would pick up Labourt.

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I wouldn't say clone. Osich's stuff isn't as good. But yeah I don't expect the Giants to make this move.

tzill said:

So, then as long as the Tigres don't claim him, he's ours if we want him, but we have to pay him $6MM?

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Sorry, catching up on several days' posts. No is the answer to the question. DFA is described (several times) in this thread :

But the relevant info is that once DFA'd, the team has 10 days to trade him to *anyone*. If a trade doesn't happen, THEN he has to pass through waivers (and waiver rules apply).

In fact, that is what happened (the Pirates traded for him - and picked up responsibility for his guaranteed salary).

SFGRTB said:

calsnowskier said:

They could get out of paying him {{Dickerson}}? How does that work?

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His contract is non-guaranteed by nature. Since he's arbitration eligible he's making a larger sum than guys still pre-arb, but the entire group still falls under the same umbrella.

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Well, sort of - the devil is in the details. He would have gotten paid something.

It is now Feb. This off-season, December 1 was the date that players were either released or offered a contract by the team. After that date, the player is going to get paid, even if released. March 13 is (will be) the last day to request unconditional Release Waivers for a player and pay only 30 days’ termination play. March 28 will be the last day to request unconditional Release Waivers for a player without having to pay full 2018 salary. (Players with non-guaranteed contracts released between March 14 and March 28 receive 45 days’ termination pay.)

Tampa Bay re-signed Dickerson (to a one-year contract) on Jan 12th - I don't know if it was a "guaranteed" contract or not, but he DID have a contract. At the least (since it was after Dec 1), Dickerson would have touched 30/182 of his $6M salary if TB ended up releasing him. At best (if it were a guaranteed contract) he would have gotten all $6M if released. (This is sidestepping the whole "he was never going to make it through waivers" issue - which was pretty clear - this is an example.)

So I guess the salient points are :
- since he wasn't released by Dec 1st, he was going to get paid. He could have been released prior to 12/1 and the Rays would have owed him nothing at all (since on Dec 1 he had no contract).
- he had a contract, so he wasn't arb-eligible (although he was arb-el before signing the one year contract).
- had he been released before his arb hearing (if he hadn't signed a contract), he still would have had his arb hearing and would have gotten 30/182 of his arb award (because released between Dec 1 - Mar 13).
- yes, players with less than 6 full years service time who have not signed a contract all fall under the same "umbrella", but arb-eligible ones will get more money if released after Dec 1 (in this case, Dickerson HAD signed a contract though)

Oops! Link didn't show up in my post-above-the-previous-one ...

DFA is described in this thread : Terms, Contracts, DFA Explained

MarcoPolo said:

Sorry, catching up on several days' posts. No is the answer to the question. DFA is described (several times) in this thread :

But the relevant info is that once DFA'd, the team has 10 days to trade him to *anyone*. If a trade doesn't happen, THEN he has to pass through waivers (and waiver rules apply).

In fact, that is what happened (the Pirates traded for him - and picked up responsibility for his guaranteed salary).

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One year, I will understand the DFA process. Thanks for the remedial reminder!

Giants should take a shot. He has two options left, is proven to be a massive power hitter and a not terrible defender. Could be a decent weapon off the bench. I'd DFA Sandoval right now, or place Chase Johnson on to 60-day DL.