Bleacher report: Stanton prefers Giants

LHG · Oct 30, 2017

msgkings322 said:
If that's the case aren't there other suitors who could offer more? Even a team or two Stanton would want to go to?

If the Giants are serious about obtaining Stanton, they are going to need to offer to pay his full salary (and maybe throw in a C grade prospect or two). Otherwise, other teams are going to throw in prospects in trade offers that we couldn't compete with. There must be at least a half dozen teams with better farm systems more than willing to acquire Stanton at that price.

msgkings322 · Oct 30, 2017

LHG said:
If the Giants are serious about obtaining Stanton, they are going to need to offer to pay his full salary (and maybe throw in a C grade prospect or two). Otherwise, other teams are going to throw in prospects in trade offers that we couldn't compete with. There must be at least a half dozen teams with better farm systems more than willing to acquire Stanton at that price.

This is probably true. Does it mean we need to go full Astros/White Sox and do a teardown to stock the farm and be good in 2022? If so I would trade everyone except Posey. Bumgarner would be the hardest to let go.

LHG · Oct 30, 2017

msgkings322 said:
This is probably true. Does it mean we need to go full Astros/White Sox and do a teardown to stock the farm and be good in 2022? If so I would trade everyone except Posey. Bumgarner would be the hardest to let go.

Yeah, except this team would be hard pressed to get much in return from so many of the players currently on the 40 man roster, for a variety of reasons. I would think it would be best to hold off on doing this until we see how some of our current guys look in 2018. Bumgarner, however, may get more now than in the midseason, due to the receiving team would get more on his current contract. However, that is a clear sign the FO has given up on 2018 so I don't know how motivated the rest of the guys would be to play into a better trade offer.

SFGRTB · Oct 30, 2017

calsnowskier said:
Assuming the fish eat half his contract, the buying team would need to give up quite a bit. At that rate he would never make more that 15M ina season. That is the going rate of a decent, but not spectacular starting OFer.

It's such a long term, mostly crippling contract I just don't think there's going to be a line of teams looking to jump on. The Yankees and Dodgers have outright said they are slashing payroll. The Red Sox are set in the OF and DH. The Cubs I don't see. The Cardinals are pretty set in the OF. The Mets, perhaps? They seem to be trending towards rebuilding, but I could see it. They have some major salary coming off.

I really don't think you can include any small market team in this discussion, they won't be willing to be held down for that long.

Giants are one of the few teams out there really.

msgkings322 · Oct 30, 2017

LHG said:
Yeah, except this team would be hard pressed to get much in return from so many of the players currently on the 40 man roster, for a variety of reasons. I would think it would be best to hold off on doing this until we see how some of our current guys look in 2018. Bumgarner, however, may get more now than in the midseason, due to the receiving team would get more on his current contract. However, that is a clear sign the FO has given up on 2018 so I don't know how motivated the rest of the guys would be to play into a better trade offer.

But to my question, is it teardown time? 2018 being the tryouts to see who to trade?

msgkings322 · Oct 30, 2017

SFGRTB said:
It's such a long term, mostly crippling contract I just don't think there's going to be a line of teams looking to jump on. The Yankees and Dodgers have outright said they are slashing payroll. The Red Sox are set in the OF and DH. The Cubs I don't see. The Cardinals are pretty set in the OF. The Mets, perhaps? They seem to be trending towards rebuilding, but I could see it. They have some major salary coming off.

I really don't think you can include any small market team in this disc ussion, they won't be willing to be held down for that long.

Giants are one of the few teams out there really.

Stanton would also have to approve so many teams wouldn't qualify there too. giants might be the main bidder but do we want to go there or go full teardown?

SFGRTB · Oct 30, 2017

msgkings322 said:
Stanton would also have to approve so many teams wouldn't qualify there too. giants might be the main bidder but do we want to go there or go full teardown?

Well, what WE want doesn't matter much. I think most people here are for a full tear down.

But what the money men want is to compete.

That's why I think this Stanton rumor is gaining so much steam. The Giants wouldn't mortgage the future prospect wise to get him, unlike someone along the lines of Ozuna, Yelich or Schoop, or even free agents like Moustakas where the Giants would sacrifice draft picks and International bonus money.

Stanton would be Evans' way of a band-aid rebuild. If it works out, great. If it doesn't and the Giants need to rebuild, well then you at least have a ton of money getting off the books and Stanton is around to appease fans, while his contract is the only long-term commitment (outside of Posey possibly). And there's a chance he's still good enough with the next core of players.

calsnowskier · Oct 30, 2017

LHG said:
Yeah, except this team would be hard pressed to get much in return from so many of the players currently on the 40 man roster, for a variety of reasons. I would think it would be best to hold off on doing this until we see how some of our current guys look in 2018. Bumgarner, however, may get more now than in the midseason, due to the receiving team would get more on his current contract. However, that is a clear sign the FO has given up on 2018 so I don't know how motivated the rest of the guys would be to play into a better trade offer.

No chance Bum is traded this off-season. I just don’t see how the FO could spin that as anything short of a rebuild.

But trading him in July when the team is out of the race would make sense. He would only be under team control for 1 more season, and whoever they get will certainly “help us win this year and next”. THAT trade could be spun.

Bum and Panik, I think, are really the only two players who have any real trade value. MAYBE Belt, if he he is given a clean bill of health, and maybe Crawford, but I question Posey’s trade value. He is certainly in his decline and he is still making 20M per for the next 4 or 5 years. Cueto and Sammy may have some value if they have a good first half, but I believe both have no-trade clauses. If Sandoval can put up respectable numbers, maybe he has some trade value. The owning team would only be on the hook for the MLB vet min.

LHG · Oct 30, 2017

SFGRTB said:
It's such a long term, mostly crippling contract I just don't think there's going to be a line of teams looking to jump on. The Yankees and Dodgers have outright said they are slashing payroll. The Red Sox are set in the OF and DH. The Cubs I don't see. The Cardinals are pretty set in the OF. The Mets, perhaps? They seem to be trending towards rebuilding, but I could see it. They have some major salary coming off.

I really don't think you can include any small market team in this discussion, they won't be willing to be held down for that long.

Giants are one of the few teams out there really.

I think a few of those teams would be interested if the Marlins would pick up half of Stanton's salary.

LHG · Oct 30, 2017

msgkings322 said:
But to my question, is it teardown time? 2018 being the tryouts to see who to trade?

Yes it is. And I hate to say that because a few of my favorite players would be traded as a result.

LHG · Nov 19, 2017

Some more on the Stanton front: Orioles face a tough reality with Zach Britton

"If the Marlins have an opportunity to dump most of Stanton’s contract and add some talent, it’ll be interesting to see if they’re open to taking back an expensive veteran in return to help make the money work -- someone like Cubs’ Jason Heyward and a portion of the money owed to him; the Giants’ Denard Span or Brandon Belt; or the Yankees’ Jacoby Ellsbury. The Giants probably match up better than any other team in a Stanton trade and are desperate for a power hitter in the middle of their order, but they will try to get the Marlins to take back a bad contract in any deal -- and some rival evaluators wonder if Stanton might shy away from San Francisco. Stanton was the best player on a bad Marlins’ team in 2017, and because the Giants have an older roster of players, it stands to reason he would be in the same position in San Francisco by 2020."

LHG · Nov 20, 2017

Giancarlo Stanton Rumors: Monday

Beede, Panik and Shaw for Stanton and maybe Gordon anyone? That's about 36 million in salary for 2018 alone, unless the Marlins are willing eat half of both Stanton and Gordon's contracts. Not sure how much of the contracts the Giants would take on as well but I certainly hope Schulman is correct and this is not the conversation right now.

calsnowskier · Nov 20, 2017

LHG said:
Giancarlo Stanton Rumors: Monday

Beede, Panik and Shaw for Stanton and maybe Gordon anyone? That's about 36 million in salary for 2018 alone, unless the Marlins are willing eat half of both Stanton and Gordon's contracts. Not sure how much of the contracts the Giants would take on as well but I certainly hope Schulman is correct and this is not the conversation right now.

I heard this one on KNBR this am. I can’t imagine it hold s anyone water. The Fish would be dumping the two contracts they are trying to distance themselves from and getting 2 solid prospects and a “free” all-star level 2B in return.

I can understand radio personalities stumping for that trade since they make all decisions while standing in pea-soup thick fog and can’t see anything that isn’t right in front of their nose. But the FO SHOULD see how that trade kinda helps in in ‘18 but totally handcuffs them for about 10 years after.

LHG · Nov 20, 2017

calsnowskier said:
I heard this one on KNBR this am. I can’t imagine it hold s anyone water. The Fish would be dumping the two contracts they are trying to distance themselves from and getting 2 solid prospects and a “free” all-star level 2B in return.

I can understand radio personalities stumping for that trade since they make all decisions while standing in pea-soup thick fog and can’t see anything that isn’t right in front of their nose. But the FO SHOULD see how that trade kinda helps in in ‘18 but totally handcuffs them for about 10 years after.

Those names may have been floated by an anonymous Marlins source for all I know, to try to get other teams to bid high on Stanton or push the Giants for a better offer once they field other teams' offers. Who knows.

The more I think about it, I really hope the Dodgers get involved and actually acquire Stanton. Then, maybe Kershaw opts out after 2018, the Dodgers are handcuffed into letting him walk and the Giants can talk him into a home town discount deal, making room by dealing both Cueto and Samardzija is fantastic mid season deals. Beede could still be around to fill out the 5th spot for 2019. Yes, that is purely the stuff of fantasy, but one can dream.

stanford the manford · Nov 20, 2017

imo the fo needs to avoid getting a marquee name for names sake (ala zito, tho he did redeem himself in '12), at the expense of a competitive roster in '19 and beyond.

as much as i'd like to see stanton in our outfield, his contract would handcuff the giants for the next 5-6 years

SFGRTB · Nov 20, 2017

calsnowskier said:
I heard this one on KNBR this am. I can’t imagine it hold s anyone water. The Fish would be dumping the two contracts they are trying to distance themselves from and getting 2 solid prospects and a “free” all-star level 2B in return.

I can understand radio personalities stumping for that trade since they make all decisions while standing in pea-soup thick fog and can’t see anything that isn’t right in front of their nose. But the FO SHOULD see how that trade kinda helps in in ‘18 but totally handcuffs them for about 10 years after.

Purely looking at it from an on the field POV, it makes some sense.

Gordon
Belt
Stanton
Posey
Crawford

That ain't half bad to look at and it's easy to talk about on sports radio....

But as pretty much everyone on this board agrees, it's the million other factors (about 300 of them) that make this so complicated.

I hope that's not the deal. It's weird to say that I hope we don't get the NL MVP, but I really hope we don't. This deal strikes me as coming from the Miami side of things.

I still think Brad Hand will fetch more in a trade than Stanton will.

SF11704 · Nov 20, 2017

I just don't understand the intensity behind this proposed deal .... if we were a team that won 85 games last year and were thinking of making some 'alterations' to our team dynamics I could see us .... taking Stanton ... trading Cuerto ... picking up Chatwood as a FA and trying to get another decent bat to try and protect Stanton (maybe the Cuerto trade).... but alas ... we were a team that lost 98 games ... have the worst record in MLB since the 2016 ASB ... just not sure what they think this will do for us. I can remember the year they walked Bonds 200+ times. I think this would yield similar results. Why pitch to Stanton if you don't have to. Then again if we lose another 90 games it won't matter much.

If 2017 was indeed a 'fluke' .... maybe something like this validates that theory. i just don't believe that is what we have seen from the mid-2016 season through all of 2017 .....

SFGRTB · Nov 20, 2017

SF11704 said:
I just don't understand the intensity behind this proposed deal .... if we were a team that won 85 games last year and were thinking of making some 'alterations' to our team dynamics I could see us .... taking Stanton ... trading Cuerto ... picking up Chatwood as a FA and trying to get another decent bat to try and protect Stanton (maybe the Cuerto trade).... but alas ... we were a team that lost 98 games ... have the worst record in MLB since the 2016 ASB ... just not sure what they think this will do for us. I can remember the year they walked Bonds 200+ times. I think this would yield similar results. Why pitch to Stanton if you don't have to. Then again if we lose another 90 games it won't matter much.

If 2017 was indeed a 'fluke' .... maybe something like this validates that theory. i just don't believe that is what we have seen from the mid-2016 season through all of 2017 .....

I think that's what most of us here see too.

I still hold the thought that pretty much everything that could go wrong last year did, and I think it's reasonable to expect bounce backs from a number of players....

But still probably puts this team in the high 70s/low 80s. And the ceiling isn't getting any higher for this group. Adding Stanton (and Dee) maybe pushes this group to the mid 80s and a wild card scenario..... but it's risky.

Mays-Fan · Nov 21, 2017

Playing Devil's Advocate, Stanon adds a potential synergy in that he brings a genuine fear factor into the lineup. He will make everyone a better hitter.

Plus, I wanna see what a genuine RHH power hitter can do at ATT.

He's the best chance we have to be a contender in 2018. Without him, we are .500 at best.

I say do it, as long as the price isn't crippling.

LHG · Nov 21, 2017

Mays-Fan said:
Playing Devil's Advocate, Stanon adds a potential synergy in that he brings a genuine fear factor into the lineup. He will make everyone a better hitter.

Plus, I wanna see what a genuine RHH power hitter can do at ATT.

He's the best chance we have to be a contender in 2018. Without him, we are .500 at best.

I say do it, as long as the price isn't crippling.

What scenario do you envision the price not being crippling to the team?

Bleacher report: Stanton prefers Giants

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