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Sportshoopla Top 25 Week 3 Discussion Thread

ericd7633

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That's the point - they didn't. I find it to be very impressive when a team has their 2nd/3rd stringers in on defense and they still hold teams out of the end zone. This is why I feel like PPG is an important factor. Sure, garbage time points don't necessarily mean a team's defense is bad, but when you're shutting teams out, that speaks to talented depth. PSU undoubtedly has it.

When comparing the Pitt game vs. OK St. against them, PSU's defense looked more impressive. Pitt had 3 TDs on the board by the end of the 3rd quarter vs. OK St., while they didn't even find the end zone vs. PSU until 5 minutes into the 4th quarter. That's where this originally stems from. If you ask me who has the better defense based on common opponent, I say PSU without a doubt.

But if you're basing it on common opponent, wasn't Oklahoma State more impressive overall as a team? I don't know, it's not that big of deal, we're really arguing about a difference in one maybe 2 spots in the polls.
 

Across The Field

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But if you're basing it on common opponent, wasn't Oklahoma State more impressive overall as a team? I don't know, it's not that big of deal, we're really arguing about a difference in one maybe 2 spots in the polls.
I don't think so. They were obviously better offensively, but I think that was a result of two different gameplans. PSU came in with the mindset of controlling the gameflow and playing conservatively and putting together a solid win while Okie State came in with the mindset of airing it out all over the place. If PSU really wanted to put it on them, they could've. Hell, Barkley only touched the ball 18 times overall. However, PSU's defense was absolutely suffocating that game. I watched most of it, and it was a really impressive showing.

All in all, yes, this is trivial. That said, there's not really a great reason why we should be jumping Oklahoma St. ahead of Penn State after 3 games. That said, I won't say there's no way an argument can't be made.
 

ericd7633

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I don't think so. They were obviously better offensively, but I think that was a result of two different gameplans. PSU came in with the mindset of controlling the gameflow and playing conservatively and putting together a solid win while Okie State came in with the mindset of airing it out all over the place. If PSU really wanted to put it on them, they could've. Hell, Barkley only touched the ball 18 times overall. However, PSU's defense was absolutely suffocating that game. I watched most of it, and it was a really impressive showing.

All in all, yes, this is trivial. That said, there's not really a great reason why we should be jumping Oklahoma St. ahead of Penn State after 3 games. That said, I won't say there's no way an argument can't be made.

You watched most of the game and came away with that? I thought PSU was fortunate to win by the margin they did. Pitt out gained them, had more 1st downs and way more time of possession. PSU had trouble getting Pitt off the field unless it was a turnover. PSU certainly didn't control the game.
 

ckhokie

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You watched most of the game and came away with that? I thought PSU was fortunate to win by the margin they did. Pitt out gained them, had more 1st downs and way more time of possession. PSU had trouble getting Pitt off the field unless it was a turnover. PSU certainly didn't control the game.

He's a B1G fanboy. No one could watch the PSU/Pitt game and the OSU/Pitt game and come out thinking PSU is the best team of those 3. I'd love to hear any sort of quantifiable analysis that says so.
 

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You watched most of the game and came away with that? I thought PSU was fortunate to win by the margin they did. Pitt out gained them, had more 1st downs and way more time of possession. PSU had trouble getting Pitt off the field unless it was a turnover. PSU certainly didn't control the game.
Seriously? Here's how the game went through the first 3 quarters for Pitt:

INT
Punt (3 and out)
Punt (5 plays)
Punt
INT
FG
Punt (3 and out)
FG
Punt (3 and out)

There were more 3 and outs than there were scoring drives. Maybe I missed all these amazing drives Pitt had.
 

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He's a B1G fanboy. No one could watch the PSU/Pitt game and the OSU/Pitt game and come out thinking PSU is the best team of those 3. I'd love to hear any sort of quantifiable analysis that says so.
Like I said earlier, very different game plans offensively. PSU was much more conservative. However, their defense played better. Plus, do you honestly not think Pitt was beaten up playing Okie State from playing Penn State the week before?
 

ericd7633

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Seriously? Here's how the game went through the first 3 quarters for Pitt:

INT
Punt (3 and out)
Punt (5 plays)
Punt
INT
FG
Punt (3 and out)
FG
Punt (3 and out)

There were more 3 and outs than there were scoring drives. Maybe I missed all these amazing drives Pitt had.

I didn't say Pitt had amazing drives. I said PSU had trouble getting them off the field. Yes there were some three and outs, but Pitt also put together an 8 minute plus drive and a five minute plus drive, in the 1st half alone. You said PSU came into the game under the mindset of controlling, well that didn't happen at all. Penn State had plenty of opportunity to do what Ok. St did, but they punted 3 times and thew a pick in the 1st half.
 

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I didn't say Pitt had amazing drives. I said PSU had trouble getting them off the field. Yes there were some three and outs, but Pitt also put together an 8 minute plus drive and a five minute plus drive, in the 1st half alone. You said PSU came into the game under the mindset of controlling, well that didn't happen at all. Penn State had plenty of opportunity to do what Ok. St did, but they punted 3 times and thew a pick in the 1st half.
Uh huh. And those drives netted Pitt a whopping 3 points. That 8 minute drive netted them 31 yards. It took so long because Pitt was taking forever to run their plays. Hell they took 2 minutes off the clock running the first 3 plays. And Penn State absolutely controlled the game. They ran an efficient offense and kept Pitt off the scoreboard. Again, Pitt had putt up 3 TDs against Oklahoma St. before they ever found the end zone vs. Penn St.
 

ckhokie

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Like I said earlier, very different game plans offensively. PSU was much more conservative. However, their defense played better. Plus, do you honestly not think Pitt was beaten up playing Okie State from playing Penn State the week before?

No I don't. Kids are pretty resilient and it was week 2. That might be an argument if it was week 8.

OSU moved the ball and scored at will. The game was over in the 1st quarter. Giving up 21 points means nothing when you know you can score any time you want. OSU could have easily put up 80. That's not even mentioning PSU was playing a rival at home and OSU traveled >1000 miles to play what was an 11am kick.
 

tnapucco

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Like I said earlier, very different game plans offensively. PSU was much more conservative. However, their defense played better. Plus, do you honestly not think Pitt was beaten up playing Okie State from playing Penn State the week before?
Now you're making excuses. :L
 

ckhokie

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To convince me that PSU is somehow better than OSU based on the Pitt showings, you'd really need to be able to justify PSUs defense being good enough to totally shut down OSUs offense, which would be extremely difficult to justify at this point. Claiming "they're defense didn't let up points as fast" when the OSU game was over with 5 min left in the first quarter is really grasping at straws.
 

ckhokie

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Now you're making excuses. :L
You know. You play totally conservative in a rivalry game against a rival that beat you last year.


:L
 

tnapucco

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You know. You play totally conservative in a rivalry game against a rival that beat you last year.


:L
Uh...maybe that is the way they do things up north....

Down here we're beating your fucking doors off regardless of the circumstances of last year, last week, or last play.

...and we'll do it with our 2nd and 3rd string too if given a chance.
 

Across The Field

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To convince me that PSU is somehow better than OSU based on the Pitt showings, you'd really need to be able to justify PSUs defense being good enough to totally shut down OSUs offense, which would be extremely difficult to justify at this point. Claiming "they're defense didn't let up points as fast" when the OSU game was over with 5 min left in the first quarter is really grasping at straws.
I wasn't the one that said you have to only look at the Pitt game to justify rankings. This started because someone said there's no reason at all that anyone should have Penn State ranked over Oklahoma State. I disagreed and the Pitt game got brought up. I said I thought PSU played better defense in that game and acknowledged that Oklahoma State obviously played better offense. As a whole, there's no strong reason to drop PSU in favor of OSU when PSU has been elite on both sides of the ball so far this year.
 

tnapucco

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I wasn't the one that said you have to only look at the Pitt game to justify rankings. This started because someone said there's no reason at all that anyone should have Penn State ranked over Oklahoma State. I disagreed and the Pitt game got brought up. I said I thought PSU played better defense in that game and acknowledged that Oklahoma State obviously played better offense. As a whole, there's no strong reason to drop PSU in favor of OSU when PSU has been elite on both sides of the ball so far this year.
So it doesn't matter how offensively capable a team is, and point differential is squat? Home/away doesn't factor in?

Ok.

You're wrong.
 
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