Athlon's B1G 10 All-Conference Team

Wamu · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
The real joke is

Jim Harbaugh? :noidea:

ericd7633 · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
I'll take OSU's weapons any day. Barkley is the best offensive player in the B1G, I definitely won't argue that. Otherwise, I'm taking the absurd amount of studs OSU has. Barrett is the biggest playmaker at QB in the B1G. He's a constant threat with the ball in his hands, and with a capable playcaller has shown to be an elite passer. Look at what Wilson did at Indiana with a bunch of no-names. Now he has elite 4/5* kids in an already explosive offense. Barrett will have the better season out of the two QBs, and the scary thing is, he's not even the most talented true QB on the OSU roster.

Well since you hold these Athlon "experts" in such high regards it should be noted they have the Penn State WR/TE unit ranked #3 in the country and the Ohio State WR/TE unit ranked #21 in the country. I mean they are paid to come up with this lists like this.

7Samurai13 · May 25, 2017

Wamu said:
What? Here are Weber's #'s from last year. 182 rushes, 1,096 yards & 9 TD's.

I was being sarcastic about the handful of carries.

Wamu · May 25, 2017

7Samurai13 said:
I was being sarcastic about the handful of carries.

I'm still trying to figure out why trustmeimwrong said Weber only had a handful of carries last year. I guess it's just more of his typical bullshit. It's much easier for him to make stuff up rather than being correct.

7Samurai13 · May 25, 2017

Wamu said:
I'm still trying to figure out why trustmeimwrong said Weber only had a handful of carries last year. I guess it's just more of his typical bullshit. It's much easier for him to make stuff up rather than being correct.

I'm amazed he hasn't made a push for Speight being all conference yet.

Wamu · May 25, 2017

7Samurai13 said:
I'm amazed he hasn't made a push for Speight being all conference yet.

Don't give him any ideas.

Across The Field · May 25, 2017

TrustMeIamRight said:
You can put the blame on whoever you'd like. The fact is -- Barrett's first year, OSU was LIGHT YEARS better at the skill positions. Zeke Elliott 1st round pick pick, Michael Thomas 2nd round pick, Devin Smith 2nd round pick, Heuerman 3rd round pick. You had homerun hitters in the backfield (Elliott), homerun hitters at WR (Smith) and great route runner at WR (Thomas).

Last year, the offense was predictable. You didn't have to worry about Weber taking one to the house. You didn't have to worry about the deep ball. It shrinks the field and makes defending the offense that much easier.

You can point fingers at the OC, but you can only go with the hand your dealt. If you had a deep threat, they would have been on the field. If you had a better WR, they would have been on the field. Not every top level recruit becomes an elite player.

I'm honestly just going to chalk this up to your ignorance of the program. We had deep guys last year - KJ Hill is a lid-lifter. Terry McClaurin came to OSU with 4.4 speed and drew comparisons to Rocket Ismail in high school. Demario McCall is an absolute threat to take it to the house whenever he touches it. Beck doesn't know how to develop players. Did you not notice how the offense was stagnant, if not worse in 2015 as compared to 2014 even though they had those same studs, only with another year under their belts?

Elite OCs make players elite. You're gonna honestly sit there and tell me that Kevin Wilson, who took a bottom-dwelling Indiana offense and made it one of the most legitimately explosive in the B1G (and put several players in the NFL), can't take OSU recruits and make them elite? We did have a better WR last year - Bin Victor. Beck wouldn't play him because he was a true freshman. Again, if you knew the program, you would know that about Beck.

Across The Field · May 25, 2017

ericd7633 said:
Well since you hold these Athlon "experts" in such high regards it should be noted they have the Penn State WR/TE unit ranked #3 in the country and the Ohio State WR/TE unit ranked #21 in the country. I mean they are paid to come up with this lists like this.

Cool. I'll place any bet you'd like on Barrett and OSU being better than McSorely and PSU this year.

ericd7633 · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
Cool. I'll place any bet you'd like on Barrett and OSU being better than McSorely and PSU this year.

I think Ohio State is going to win the B1G, mostly because of the defense, however. I do think McSorley will again be better than Barrett. But we're going to have to define by what measures.

TrustMeIamRight · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
I'm honestly just going to chalk this up to your ignorance of the program. We had deep guys last year - KJ Hill is a lid-lifter. Terry McClaurin came to OSU with 4.4 speed and drew comparisons to Rocket Ismail in high school. Demario McCall is an absolute threat to take it to the house whenever he touches it. Beck doesn't know how to develop players. Did you not notice how the offense was stagnant, if not worse in 2015 as compared to 2014 even though they had those same studs, only with another year under their belts?

Elite OCs make players elite. You're gonna honestly sit there and tell me that Kevin Wilson, who took a bottom-dwelling Indiana offense and made it one of the most legitimately explosive in the B1G (and put several players in the NFL), can't take OSU recruits and make them elite? We did have a better WR last year - Bin Victor. Beck wouldn't play him because he was a true freshman. Again, if you knew the program, you would know that about Beck.

So your offensive coordinator is telling your head coach who is and who isn't going to play? I find that hard to believe.

And if you haven't noticed -- EVERYONE can run in college. Every team has 4.4 guys at WR. If measureables were all that was needed to be successful at WR, you would have 20-25 1st round grade WR's every year. It doesn't matter if you can run a 4.4 if you struggle to get off the line of scrimmage. It doesn't matter if you are 6'4" if you struggle to catch the ball. It doesn't matter if you are 6'4" AND run a 4.4 if you struggle in route running and gaining separation.

Hell -- UM has had Drake Harris for 3 years. 6'4", runs a 4.4, can jump out of the gym. Came to UM after a monster HS career where he put up over 2,100 yards receiving as a junior. They just announced he was switching to CB, because he won't see the field at WR.

Measureables are only worthwhile if you have the talent to go along with it.

Across The Field · May 25, 2017

ericd7633 said:
I think Ohio State is going to win the B1G, mostly because of the defense, however. I do think McSorley will again be better than Barrett. But we're going to have to define by what measures.

Well by your measure, 3 total TDs was the difference between an average year and however you'd describe McSorley. A lot depends on the gameplan, but I think Barrett ends up with more total yards and total TDs.

Across The Field · May 25, 2017

TrustMeIamRight said:
So your offensive coordinator is telling your head coach who is and who isn't going to play? I find that hard to believe.

And if you haven't noticed -- EVERYONE can run in college. Every team has 4.4 guys at WR. If measureables were all that was needed to be successful at WR, you would have 20-25 1st round grade WR's every year. It doesn't matter if you can run a 4.4 if you struggle to get off the line of scrimmage. It doesn't matter if you are 6'4" if you struggle to catch the ball. It doesn't matter if you are 6'4" AND run a 4.4 if you struggle in route running and gaining separation.

Hell -- UM has had Drake Harris for 3 years. 6'4", runs a 4.4, can jump out of the gym. Came to UM after a monster HS career where he put up over 2,100 yards receiving as a junior. They just announced he was switching to CB, because he won't see the field at WR.

Measureables are only worthwhile if you have the talent to go along with it.

So you're going to tell me that you truly believe in your heart that Urban only recruited really good guys for when Herman was there, but stuck Beck with shitty guys.

ericd7633 · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
Well by your measure, 3 total TDs was the difference between an average year and however you'd describe McSorley. A lot depends on the gameplan, but I think Barrett ends up with more total yards and total TDs.

I'd prefer to use adj qbr. but that's just me. Offenses run similar styles so that should be moot. Not like we're comparing Wisconsin to Texas Tech.

Across The Field · May 25, 2017

ericd7633 said:
I'd prefer to use adj qbr. but that's just me. Offenses run similar styles so that should be moot. Not like we're comparing Wisconsin to Texas Tech.

That's kind of what I figured. Both are in run-heavy offenses but both also have talented WRs and good OCs. As I pointed out, their stats last year weren't that far apart and Barrett had to deal with a moron OC.

I hope you weren't taking any of this as a knock on Trace. He's a fantastic college QB and he has some studs at his disposal. Mostly this was just a response to you saying it was such a huge joke even though Barrett had a similar year last year (not as good, but not far off), and had an elite year in 2014. If Beck knew what he was doing in 2015, Barrett would've been starting the whole time and could've had a monster year as well.

TrustMeIamRight · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
So you're going to tell me that you truly believe in your heart that Urban only recruited really good guys for when Herman was there, but stuck Beck with shitty guys.

Recruiting isn't an exact science. I don't think he stuck anyone with shitty players. Sometimes recruits prosper once in college, sometimes recruits struggle once in college.

It isn't as if Michael Thomas and Devin Smith were stud recruits -- Thomas was ranked in the 800's on 247. Devin Smith was around 330. You just never know.

Very few players can get by on talent alone on the college level. How they pick up the advanced techniques needed to be successful on the college level will define how good they become.

Look at UM this past year -- Darboh and Chesson didn't have every program beating down their door. One was ranked in the 600's, the other was in the 300's I think. UM has had much more highly touted WR recruits come in, but those two were our starters and now play in the NFL.

Across The Field · May 25, 2017

TrustMeIamRight said:
Recruiting isn't an exact science. I don't think he stuck anyone with shitty players. Sometimes recruits prosper once in college, sometimes recruits struggle once in college.

It isn't as if Michael Thomas and Devin Smith were stud recruits -- Thomas was ranked in the 800's on 247. Devin Smith was around 330. You just never know.

Very few players can get by on talent alone on the college level. How they pick up the advanced techniques needed to be successful on the college level will define how good they become.

Look at UM this past year -- Darboh and Chesson didn't have every program beating down their door. One was ranked in the 600's, the other was in the 300's I think. UM has had much more highly touted WR recruits come in, but those two were our starters and now play in the NFL.

And where would the proper guidance come from for these players to get to that point? Hmm...

Look, the proof is in the pudding. Mike Thomas is a great example. He came to OSU as a major project. He was a healthy redshirt his sophomore year. Then Herman got ahold of him and turned him into the best WR in his rookie class. All those studs looked pedestrian far too many times after Herman left in 2015, and it was because of awful offensive coordination. Did you happen to notice what happened after the MSU game in 2015 when Meyer sent Beck and co-awful OC Ed Warriner to the press box and handled things himself? We decimated a very good michigan defense and lit up ND in the Fiesta Bowl. Meyer made the mistake of trusting Beck again last year and we paid for it. Things will be very, very different this year.

TrustMeIamRight · May 25, 2017

Across The Field said:
And where would the proper guidance come from for these players to get to that point? Hmm...

Look, the proof is in the pudding. Mike Thomas is a great example. He came to OSU as a major project. He was a healthy redshirt his sophomore year. Then Herman got ahold of him and turned him into the best WR in his rookie class. All those studs looked pedestrian far too many times after Herman left in 2015, and it was because of awful offensive coordination. Did you happen to notice what happened after the MSU game in 2015 when Meyer sent Beck and co-awful OC Ed Warriner to the press box and handled things himself? We decimated a very good michigan defense and lit up ND in the Fiesta Bowl. Meyer made the mistake of trusting Beck again last year and we paid for it. Things will be very, very different this year.

Their position coach -- I believe it is Zack Smith that is the WR coach.

You continue to point directly at the OC, but the position coaches are the guys working with the players on a daily basis.

Across The Field · May 26, 2017

TrustMeIamRight said:
Their position coach -- I believe it is Zack Smith that is the WR coach.

You continue to point directly at the OC, but the position coaches are the guys working with the players on a daily basis.

You mean the one that's been here for 5 years? Did he suddenly forget how to coach his position once Herman left?

TrustMeIamRight · May 26, 2017

Across The Field said:
You mean the one that's been here for 5 years? Did he suddenly forget how to coach his position once Herman left?

Just because you can coach your position doesn't mean the recruits brought in are going to pick it up and be able to use it on the field.

Contrary to your belief -- measureables mean very little if a player struggles with the advanced techniques needed to be successful in college and especially the NFL.

It is no different than UM and their QB position in the past 7-8 years. Devin Gardner was the #1 dual threat QB out of HS. Shane Morris had an absolute cannon and was faster than Gardner. It isn't like the QB coaches forgot how to coach up a QB and in Morris's case, it isn't as if Harbaugh forgot how to coach up a QB.

Some players figure it out, some players have all the talent in the world, but can't figure it out. It is why the best teams in college are the teams who bring in the most talent. For every recruit who doesn't pan out, they have one equally as talented waiting to take their spot. It is why the top coaches are cut throat on the roster moves, because the more recruits you bring in each year, the better chance you have to hit on elite recruits.

7Samurai13 · May 26, 2017

TrustMeIamRight said:
Just because you can coach your position doesn't mean the recruits brought in are going to pick it up and be able to use it on the field.

Contrary to your belief -- measureables mean very little if a player struggles with the advanced techniques needed to be successful in college and especially the NFL.

It is no different than UM and their QB position in the past 7-8 years. Devin Gardner was the #1 dual threat QB out of HS. Shane Morris had an absolute cannon and was faster than Gardner. It isn't like the QB coaches forgot how to coach up a QB and in Morris's case, it isn't as if Harbaugh forgot how to coach up a QB.

Some players figure it out, some players have all the talent in the world, but can't figure it out. It is why the best teams in college are the teams who bring in the most talent. For every recruit who doesn't pan out, they have one equally as talented waiting to take their spot. It is why the top coaches are cut throat on the roster moves, because the more recruits you bring in each year, the better chance you have to hit on elite recruits.

Ummm you had shitty coaches, as evidenced by the lack of results with two top ten classes that miraculously became draftable when Harbaugh arrived, and Gardner was gone before Harbaugh got there so how exactly was he supposed to "coach him up"?

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