Harbaugh still no new recruits

[Sgt Brutus]

Looking at their schedule I think Michigan goes 7-5. That's a bowl game and good 1st season.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

It's illogical to think they will magically develop into studs as well. It takes more than one off season not to mention they need to learn a new playbook. As I said in another post, if Illinois made it to a bowl and you didn't, there is a lot less talent then you think.

CFB isn't that black and white. Illinois made it to a bowl game -- off the wins against Youngstown State, Western Kentucky and Texas State. Additionally, teams make miraculous flips all the time from bad to good -- especially after coaching transitions. Or have you already forgotten the 6-7 OSU season that was followed with an undefeated season after hiring Urban? Michigan's recruiting classes, and retention of those players, proves the raw talent is there. Hoke was fired for being a bad coach, and a good coach could make large improvements in one year - especially given Michigan returns the most players in the big ten.

And I'll even throw in Hoke's first year going 11-2 with RR's kids after a pretty terrible 7-5 season the year before. I'd even argue our 5-7 team this year is better than the RR 7-5 year.

What's illogical is to think it takes that long to develop talent. Especially coming from a guy who's team just won with two backup QB's.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Also, Michigan just flipped 4 star Texas QB commit Zach Gentry. This thread would have had a longer shelf life if it was posted last weekend. With two pledges today, our total is up to 8. Only 4-6 likely left. And that's 2 four star QB's in this class.

Zach Gentry - Yahoo! Sports

 

[OregonDucks]

Didn't Brady hoke come in and take Michigan to a bcs bowl in his first year after Rich Rod had run them into the ground? No reason not to think Harbaugh could do the same.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Didn't Brady hoke come in and take Michigan to a bcs bowl in his first year after Rich Rod had run them into the ground? No reason not to think Harbaugh could do the same.

I think it's more Ohio State fans hoping we still fail or Harbaugh does worse than expected.

 

[Voltaire26]

I think more Harbaugh threads have been started by ohio state and Michigan State fans then Michigan fans. I wonder why that is?

 

[cwerph]

Vagerine fans. They have been down for so long that every time they get a new corch, they just grasp at any little straw.

Rich Rod was going to revolutionize the B1G. Check.
Brady Hoke was a "Michigan Man" who would restore the glory. Check.
Now it's JH. Recruits will be lining up to play for him. Check.

Suggest it won't be a miraculous turnaround? We be scurred.
Urban should just retire now before his heart gives out.
Dantonio should go to the B12 or AAC.

It's very entertaining.

Not as entertaining as winning the B1G in convincing fashion with a 3rd string qb.
Not nearly as entertaining being the first ever to win the CFP.
Not as entertaining as the celebration at the 'Shoe today in Columbus.

However, watching them helps pass the time until the spring game on April 18.

 

[7Samurai13]

CFB isn't that black and white. Illinois made it to a bowl game -- off the wins against Youngstown State, Western Kentucky and Texas State. Additionally, teams make miraculous flips all the time from bad to good -- especially after coaching transitions. Or have you already forgotten the 6-7 OSU season that was followed with an undefeated season after hiring Urban? Michigan's recruiting classes, and retention of those players, proves the raw talent is there. Hoke was fired for being a bad coach, and a good coach could make large improvements in one year - especially given Michigan returns the most players in the big ten.

And I'll even throw in Hoke's first year going 11-2 with RR's kids after a pretty terrible 7-5 season the year before. I'd even argue our 5-7 team this year is better than the RR 7-5 year.

What's illogical is to think it takes that long to develop talent. Especially coming from a guy who's team just won with two backup QB's.

The year before Fickle took over, Ohio State won the Big10 and were 11-1 going into the bowl season. They were not that far removed from being a good team. Michigan has had one good season in 7 years and are now 4 years removed from that. Hard to compare 1 year of bad coaching to 7 years of bad coaching.

 

[7Samurai13]

Didn't Brady hoke come in and take Michigan to a bcs bowl in his first year after Rich Rod had run them into the ground? No reason not to think Harbaugh could do the same.

Rich Rod had his team improving every year despite not having a real quarterback when he arrived (because he made no attempt to keep Ryan Malltett and was gung ho for Pryor). Hoke ca,e in with an idea on who will start and what kind of offense he was capable of running.

Rich Rod had the team improving every year and most analysts were predicting Michigan to being he 9-10 win range for Hoke's first year without him being fired. Hoke's teams continually got worse despite phenomenal recruiting classes because he and his staff were incapable of developing that talent. Harbaugh may be a good developer of talent but we really only have one QB in the college ranks to base that on, which was a phenom in Luck. Kapernick looked unstoppable Harbaugh's first year in the pros but each year got worse and worse. Teams were, learning how to defend that offense and Harbaugh wanted to protect him so that he was the QB of the future, not injury printed and in need of a legitimate starter as backup, so Harbaugh was forced to alter the offense. This will really show what Harbaugh can do as a developer.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Rich Rod had his team improving every year despite not having a real quarterback when he arrived (because he made no attempt to keep Ryan Malltett and was gung ho for Pryor). Hoke ca,e in with an idea on who will start and what kind of offense he was capable of running.

Rich Rod had the team improving every year and most analysts were predicting Michigan to being he 9-10 win range for Hoke's first year without him being fired. Hoke's teams continually got worse despite phenomenal recruiting classes because he and his staff were incapable of developing that talent. Harbaugh may be a good developer of talent but we really only have one QB in the college ranks to base that on, which was a phenom in Luck. Kapernick looked unstoppable Harbaugh's first year in the pros but each year got worse and worse. Teams were, learning how to defend that offense and Harbaugh wanted to protect him so that he was the QB of the future, not injury printed and in need of a legitimate starter as backup, so Harbaugh was forced to alter the offense. This will really show what Harbaugh can do as a developer.

People overstate that Michigan was "improving" under Rich Rod. Sure, the wins went up, but that's about it. Against top level competition Rich Rod never got close. Have you really forgotten what Michigan football was like under Rich Rod???? Defense was a joke, special teams were sloppy, and while the offense could put up Tecmo Bowl numbers against MAC level teams, against a defense with a pulse they were completely shut down.

And the reverse was true for Hoke, while the record did decline, the team really didn't. Arguably the 2012 team was better than the 2011 team that won the Sugar Bowl, they just had a tougher schedule and a few less lucky bounces. So while the lack of development started to show in 2013 and 2014, they still had some valiant losing efforts, most notably in the Game (something Rich Rod was never even close in).

So as for the future, there is still a lot of promising young talent, like Mason Cole, the true freshman that started left tackle. And Michigan;s new OC/OL coach Tim Drevno has a track record of developing lines, notably the job he did last year with USC's young line. So between that and now Tyrone Wheatly working with quite the stable of RB's (Green, Johnson, Smith and Issac), the run game should be strong. And as for the QB, there is no doubt there is talent there, either from Morris or one of the others, and with Harbaugh himself tutoring them I think he can get at least good, consistent (which it was the consistency that was really missing last year) from one of them.

 

[7Samurai13]

People overstate that Michigan was "improving" under Rich Rod. Sure, the wins went up, but that's about it. Against top level competition Rich Rod never got close. Have you really forgotten what Michigan football was like under Rich Rod???? Defense was a joke, special teams were sloppy, and while the offense could put up Tecmo Bowl numbers against MAC level teams, against a defense with a pulse they were completely shut down.

And the reverse was true for Hoke, while the record did decline, the team really didn't. Arguably the 2012 team was better than the 2011 team that won the Sugar Bowl, they just had a tougher schedule and a few less lucky bounces. So while the lack of development started to show in 2013 and 2014, they still had some valiant losing efforts, most notably in the Game (something Rich Rod was never even close in).

So as for the future, there is still a lot of promising young talent, like Mason Cole, the true freshman that started left tackle. And Michigan;s new OC/OL coach Tim Drevno has a track record of developing lines, notably the job he did last year with USC's young line. So between that and now Tyrone Wheatly working with quite the stable of RB's (Green, Johnson, Smith and Issac), the run game should be strong. And as for the QB, there is no doubt there is talent there, either from Morris or one of the others, and with Harbaugh himself tutoring them I think he can get at least good, consistent (which it was the consistency that was really missing last year) from one of them.

Michigan State had an Elite11 quarterback too. He stunk it up and led us to the worst season under Dantonio. Morris is looking to be cast from the same mold. Plenty of talent but for some reason can't make it click. Now he may be she'll shocked after that horrible line Michigan had last year and be hearing ghosts coming from his blind side.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

The year before Fickle took over, Ohio State won the Big10 and were 11-1 going into the bowl season. They were not that far removed from being a good team. Michigan has had one good season in 7 years and are now 4 years removed from that. Hard to compare 1 year of bad coaching to 7 years of bad coaching.

They always like to point out that stat but as you just showed it was an anomaly

Michigan thinks they are special because they have a thread started after them. The fact is the rest of the B1G get entertainment out of you're high hopes.

Being unbiased I will say you had two good flips today and that's a start for Jim and the new staff.

 

[Red_Alert]

Considering both the 2012 and 2013 classes were top 10, and that almost no one from either has left the program:
Hokepoints: Attrition Update, the Worst is Over | mgoblog

Hoke left Harbaugh with a primed pump, ready to kick the Bucks in the nuts.

Michigan gets the Notre Dame bump in rankings though don't they? Was Hoke a good evaluator of talent? They didn't play like it.

 

[Red_Alert]

I think people will be surprised how fast he turns Michigan around, the talent is most certainly there, it is only a question how fast can Harbaugh get them up to speed?

It's not like I am necessarily predicting Michigan will win the Big Ten next year (though they certainly could), but you also have to remember, even Hoke gave Meyer all he could handle. Do you remember how close it came last time the Game was played in the Big House?

That's a rivalry game. Michigan's been losing to 3rd and 4th tier teams. I don't think it's gonna happen as fast as you'd like.

2 full season's back up to 3rd tier first.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

That's a rivalry game. Michigan's been losing to 3rd and 4th tier teams. I don't think it's gonna happen as fast as you'd like.

2 full season's back up to 3rd tier first.

For the longest time Michigan was MSU's "rivalry game," and for nearly 3 decades they truly were Michigan's "little brother."

I agree the in general when it comes to rivalry games you can "throw out the record book," but that's because teams give it their all, and that is no guarantee of a close game. See the 1968 edition of the Game, when famously went for 2 because he couldn't go for 3. So under Hoke, Michigan's best shot was to come within 2 points of beating on of the best teams in the nation, what will it be under Harbaug?

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Michigan State had an Elite11 quarterback too. He stunk it up and led us to the worst season under Dantonio. Morris is looking to be cast from the same mold. Plenty of talent but for some reason can't make it click. Now he may be she'll shocked after that horrible line Michigan had last year and be hearing ghosts coming from his blind side.

He had one decent start and one bad one, neither with a quality O-line nor run game. I don't think we can read to much into what kind of college QB he will develop to. Besides, given the rest of the team, all the QB needs to be is just above a game-manager, Morris doesn't need to be Andrew Luck.

 

[Cleaves2000]

People overstate that Michigan was "improving" under Rich Rod. Sure, the wins went up, but that's about it. Against top level competition Rich Rod never got close. Have you really forgotten what Michigan football was like under Rich Rod???? Defense was a joke, special teams were sloppy, and while the offense could put up Tecmo Bowl numbers against MAC level teams, against a defense with a pulse they were completely shut down.

And the reverse was true for Hoke, while the record did decline, the team really didn't. Arguably the 2012 team was better than the 2011 team that won the Sugar Bowl, they just had a tougher schedule and a few less lucky bounces. So while the lack of development started to show in 2013 and 2014, they still had some valiant losing efforts, most notably in the Game (something Rich Rod was never even close in).

So as for the future, there is still a lot of promising young talent, like Mason Cole, the true freshman that started left tackle. And Michigan;s new OC/OL coach Tim Drevno has a track record of developing lines, notably the job he did last year with USC's young line. So between that and now Tyrone Wheatly working with quite the stable of RB's (Green, Johnson, Smith and Issac), the run game should be strong. And as for the QB, there is no doubt there is talent there, either from Morris or one of the others, and with Harbaugh himself tutoring them I think he can get at least good, consistent (which it was the consistency that was really missing last year) from one of them.

Sure the wins went up? How else to u judge a team? Wins are all that matter. I forgot. UM has turned into moral U now. Coming close to winning is a big thing. We ALMOST beat you.......wow how the mighty have fallen...


Did he just say shane morris has talent?


Remember navynuke is always wrong. 6 months ago he was arguing with me on how hoke was a great coach. Then he like many other UM fans kept claiming the BIG was down since UM sucked. But yet OSU and MSU did just fine. Gotta sting watching OSU win it again. 2nd time since Y2K. OUCH!!

 

[Red_Alert]

For the longest time Michigan was MSU's "rivalry game," and for nearly 3 decades they truly were Michigan's "little brother."

I agree the in general when it comes to rivalry games you can "throw out the record book," but that's because teams give it their all, and that is no guarantee of a close game. See the 1968 edition of the Game, when famously went for 2 because he couldn't go for 3. So under Hoke, Michigan's best shot was to come within 2 points of beating on of the best teams in the nation, what will it be under Harbaug?

My point wasn't seeking the obvious explanation as to why many rivalry games are close. Nor was I looking for a history lesson on some 1968 game.
My point was that I think Michigan's farther away from winning a conference title than you think. That moral victory over tOSU was only big to Michigan fans. It is the rest of the losses the country sees.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

I'm loving this Michigan hope. This year we will actually get to crush a team that at least has a little life in them now.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

My point wasn't seeking the obvious explanation as to why many rivalry games are close. Nor was I looking for a history lesson on some 1968 game.
My point was that I think Michigan's farther away from winning a conference title than you think. That moral victory over tOSU was only big to Michigan fans. It is the rest of the losses the country sees.

In 2013 Michigan was 11 points from being 11-1. Just two plays, if the field goal attempt at the end of regulation had just a little more "oomph" in the Penn St. game and if Gardner makes that 2pt conversion Michigan ends the regular season 9-3 instead of 7-5, and the conversation is completely different, and maybe Hoke is still the head coach.

Yeah, yeah, I know, if "if's and buts were nuts we all have a merry Christmas." The point is it isn't just the Game, it only highlights the potential, because as I said it was Michigan's best performance. So if Harbaugh can more of that kind of performance out of his team, then Michigan can be very dangerous. Because I know it is tempting to look at just the "L," and say the team was bad, but a true student of the game know not all loses are equal.