Would You Trade Scheffler?

[jdwills126]

Sorry TPaul, but if the Lions need a big year out of Thomas then the wheels have came off IMO!

CJ, Burleson, Broyles, Scheffler, Pettigrew, and even Edwards should have better stats.

Not to mention Reggie Bush will take some of the screens and wheel routes away from him.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Sorry TPaul, but if the Lions need a big year out of Thomas then the wheels have came off IMO!

CJ, Burleson, Broyles, Scheffler, Pettigrew, and even Edwards should have better stats.

Not to mention Reggie Bush will take some of the screens and wheel routes away from him.

When did I say anything about us needing a big year out of Thomas or anything about Thomas having a big year?

Why is it that if someone defends a guy's spot on the roster then everyone else ignores what he's actually saying (or perhaps they're just skimming posts?) and assumes that because I'm defending the guy I'm saying he'll be great? I never said he's great, or that he's going to have a big year.

The dude is a complimentary player. Our 4th or 5th WR at best, depending on how Edwards looks this year. As for Edwards, I'm excited about his potential too, but to say he "should" have better stats than Thomas is misguided. Edwards couldn't crack the roster, Thomas has a 60+ receptions, 800+ yards season under his belt for a crappy Jags team.

He's not just some bum that we picked up off the waiver wire- the dude has produced in the NFL. Now, this is the point where everyone ditches their common sense, starts putting words in my mouth, and generally just assume since I pointed out that he put up those numbers that means I think he'll repeat them for us. I don't think that, not even close.

However, what I have been trying to say is that Thomas is a young, very fast player who can play slot WR and RB, and also return kicks and punts. He's had good production in the league already and came cheap via trade. He's a great guy to have around as a depth WR, especially as much as we throw the ball.


So, in conclusion, I want to be crystal clear- we're talking about a depth player here, not a starter. That being said talking about depth players is OK- good teams have good depth. Just because I like the guy and chose to defend him against relatively baseless criticism doesn't mean I think he should be a starter. I just think he has enough value to merit a roster spot, regardless of any misplaced anger towards him...

 

[tpaulus_2]

On a related note- what is it with the fans of our teem and their obsessive need for scapegoats. I know our team has sucked a whole lot for a long time, but it just strikes me as odd how many in our fanbase are so quick to latch on to a single player and trash him as if all the losing is his fault.

Imo, the obvious problem is coaching. Most agree that we have good talent, but we have a coach going on his 5th year now with a career .344 win percentage, so if anyone needs a scapegoat, there's your guy...

 

[Thruthefog]

My scapegoat is Roary. He didn't take out a single player last year.

 

[broncosmitty]

You honestly have convinced yourself that Mike Thomas was a player worth trading for. That would amaze me, but he's a Detroit Lion. So his complete lack of production on the field, his pay check and the fact his career isn't going anywhere don't matter, as Detroit Lions all have value, increased value, bloated value, ridiculous value. Gimme a break! There are good odds he'll be released by the franchise, before the draft pick he was dealt for has ever had a chance to play a regular season game. And he did nothing for the franchise last season. That's a bad deal. That's Mayhew pulling the trigger on a knee-jerk, panic, reeling decision. I see no way you can look at that positively. Aside from, of course, the fact Mike Thomas is a Detroit Lion. And those guys get increased, bloated, ridiculous values, always.

 

[Microwahevo]

There are good odds he'll be released by the franchise, before the draft pick
he was dealt for has ever had a chance to play a regular season game.

That very well could be. I think we need to pay very, VERY close attention to whom the Jags pick with their extra 5th round pick next year. Then we can start the debate as to whether trading for Thomas was worth it.

 

[broncosmitty]

There is no debate. It was a stupid fucking move.

 

[tpaulus_2]

You honestly have convinced yourself that Mike Thomas was a player worth trading for.

No more than you've convinced yourself that he wasn't. I absolutely think he was worth trading for, given the compensation that we had to give up.

That would amaze me, but he's a Detroit Lion.

I don't see where the amazement lies? He's a young kid with a productive NFL resume who we got for a late round pick. If you didn't randomly dislike him for whatever reason I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

So his complete lack of production on the field, his pay check and the fact his career isn't going anywhere don't matter, as Detroit Lions all have value, increased value, bloated value, ridiculous value. Gimme a break!

Give you a break? Give me a break!

I wish I had your crystal ball, so I knew which players career aren't going anywhere. I could make a lot of money as a GM if I had that.

As for his "complete lack of production" I'm going to assume you are just reffering to last year, and are ignoring the two seasons prior to that where he had 110 catches for 1,235 yards and 5 TDs? That kind of talent doesn't just disappear. Maybe, and i'm going way out on a limb here, but maybe his struggles for us had something to do with joining the team halfway through the year and not knowing the playbook?

Or maybe the previous two year's production was all dumb luck?

There are good odds he'll be released by the franchise, before the draft pick he was dealt for has ever had a chance to play a regular season game.

That's your opinion. Based on... well not much, as far as I can tell.

And he did nothing for the franchise last season.

This is true. He really didn't do anything for us last year. Is that really why you're so upset, though? I know this is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league, but I think you're taking that saying way too seriously.

A.) He was pretty damn productive in the two years before we traded for him and he's still only 26 years old. Talent doesn't just up and disappear.

B.) He joined the team midway through the season, pretty tough to do a whole lot under those circumstances. You mentioned that he was passed on the depth chart by free agent Kris Durham, whom you refereed to as undrafted, neither statement is true. Durham and Thomas play different positions. Durham is an outside WR, Thomas plays in the slot. Durham was a 4th round pick by the Seahawks (see, other teams blow draft picks too).

I have to wonder how much this mis-information you have on Thomas is affecting your perceived value of him. A lot of the reasons your giving against him are not true.

C.) The trade has already been made, it's not hurting anything to keep him right now to compete for a depth spot at WR and KR/PR. The foolish thing to do would be to cut him before camp, now that makes no sense at all.

That's Mayhew pulling the trigger on a knee-jerk, panic, reeling decision.

I think the only knee jerking going on here is someone being upset that we traded for a player that they don't like.

I see no way you can look at that positively. Aside from, of course, the fact Mike Thomas is a Detroit Lion. And those guys get increased, bloated, ridiculous values, always.

There's plenty to look at positively. For a 3rd day draft pick we got a 26 year old WR who put up over 100 catches and 1,200 yards combined in the two seasons before we traded for him. He's capable of playing some RB, and he returns kicks and punts. Not too shabby for a guy brought in for depth.

Did I mention he's competing to be the 4th, 5th or 6th WR? We're not talking about a guy we're counting on for anything big, just a talented kid who is competing for a depth spot.

I don't get where all the hate is coming from? He's got a chance to make our receiving corps deeper for a pretty low cost, why so much resistance? If he gets cut he gets cut, not really much lost...

 

[broncosmitty]

How can he be worth trading for? (For the love of god don't say "depth") he did NOTHING an undrafted off the street guy couldn't do, and he's most likely not a part of the teams short terms plans, never mind long term. Where's the worth?

 

[broncosmitty]

What he did JVille sure didn't translate up north. And he had no competition for targets. And yes, I'm saying Robiskie, Durham, Bell and Will Heller count as no competition. I think they would understand.

 

[broncosmitty]

If talent doesn't just up and disappear, where the fuck was his hiding last fall?

 

[broncosmitty]

Which of my reasons are not true for thinking(knowing) this was a bad deal by Mayhew? Did Thomas have any impact last season that doesn't show up on a stat sheet? Did he play in JV games that weren't broadcast?

 

[tpaulus_2]

What he did JVille sure didn't translate up north.

Yet.

We'll see what he can do with a full offseason and a good understanding of the playbook.

 

[tpaulus_2]

If talent doesn't just up and disappear, where the fuck was his hiding last fall?

See above comment.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Which of my reasons are not true for thinking(knowing) this was a bad deal by Mayhew? Did Thomas have any impact last season that doesn't show up on a stat sheet? Did he play in JV games that weren't broadcast?

Why so short-sighted? You think we traded for him to salvage last season? It's not like he had an expiring contract and we gave up a high pick for a guy who didn't do shit and is now off the team. We gave up a late pick for a guy who didn't do shit but is still on the team and can still help out.

 

[broncosmitty]

They traded for him to be scab on the wound left from TY being a nut-job, Broyles blowing a tire, and Nate breaking a leg. He failed. Miserably. When Logan made a fair catch, outside the end one, ending his career. Bell returned kicks(and fumbled one of them). If return man was something I'd hoped for out of Thomas I would have quit hoping after that.

 

[tpaulus_2]

How can he be worth trading for? (For the love of god don't say "depth")

Why can't I say depth? That's exactly why it was a good trade, he sure as hell wasn't brought in to be a starter. We drafted Ryan Broyles to be our "starting" slot WR for a long-ass time. Thomas was absolutely brought in to be a reserve.

What I don't get, though, is the thought process that the trade was bad if and because he's not a starter. It was a 5th round pick for a young, versatile WR who has established production. Not great production, but plenty good enough for a 4th or 5th WR.

We'd be hard-pressed to do better with a 5th rounder. Don't over-value the pick based on the potential we could get with it, instead look at our 5th rounders since Mayhew took over: 2009- no pick, 2010- no pick, 2011-Doug Hogue, 2012- Tahir Whitehead, Chris Greenwood. A couple of youngsters who we're hoping make an impact, and then a whole lot of nothing. Getting a 25 year old (at the time) WR who they really liked coming out a few years back is about as good of a "pick" as Mayhew (or any GM) was likely to make with that pick.

To summarize, there's nothing wrong, at all, with trading a late-round draft pick for a young depth player. Good teams have good depth, usually acquired with later-round picks.

he did NOTHING an undrafted off the street guy couldn't do, and he's most likely not a part of the teams short terms plans, never mind long term. Where's the worth?

With the exception of him doing nothing on the field last year, the rest of this is all just speculation on your part, seemingly based only on your dislike for him. He didn't do jack shit for us late last year, but that certainly doesn't reflect his career production at all...

 

[tpaulus_2]

They traded for him to be scab on the wound left from TY being a nut-job, Broyles blowing a tire, and Nate breaking a leg. He failed. Miserably. When Logan made a fair catch, outside the end one, ending his career. Bell returned kicks(and fumbled one of them). If return man was something I'd hoped for out of Thomas I would have quit hoping after that.

He was signed before both the TY melt-down and Broyles injury. So clearly he wasn't a band-aid, knee jerk reaction to those things as you say he was. This is the miss-info that I'm talking about that I feel is clouding your judgement on the issue....

 

[broncosmitty]

My bad, TY was mid meltdown, and Nate was out for the year. He definitely wasn't brought in to get less looks than a PS guy like Durham.

 

[Thruthefog]

I would trade Scheffler for some pipe screens right now.