2013-14 - Around the League Thread

[nuraman00]

Mike Dunlap of Charlotte Bobcats patient amid 16-game skid - ESPN

It's amazing how this team, who had two 16+ losing streaks last year, started 7-5 (6-4 for a better percentage) and then lost 16 and counting in a row. That matched their whole season last year. Maybe it wasn't the coach, but the team? Probably both. They don't have anyone I recognize that much besides Ben Gordon and Diop. I've heard of Walker, of course, but don't know much about him. They're so young.

Charlotte Bobcats 2013 Team Roster - ESPN

Spoelstra said that they would start winning the close games. I looked at their schedule this year and they're 5-5 in games decided by 3 or fewer (or OT). So 5 of their first 12 games (7 wins) were by 3 or fewer or in OT. One regulation win was by 4 points. They've had 5 blowouts (20+)(17.9%). I realize that sometimes, a team will make a 3 at the buzzer when they were down by six - so that technically wasn't a close game. Sometimes a blowout goes under 20 because of the opponent letting gas off the pedal, playing the bench, as long as they aren't Ginobili.

Just trying to figure out how this compares to last year. They were 2-5 games determined by 3 or fewer or in OT. They were blown out of 24 games last year (36.4%), by my count (which could be wrong because I quick counted it).

Charlotte Bobcats 2013 Schedule - Bobcats Home and Away - ESPN

Kemba Walker has made huge strides this season. I had liked him in that 6-10 draft spot range in 2011.

Still, the Bobcats just don't have enough offense.

They are also 30th in defense, but in this case I think their bad offense hurts their defense.

I've also always liked Sessions.

Kidd-Gilchrist is playing well, but in the games I've watched him, I can't figure out his role or identity. He hasn't stood out to me, despite having solid numbers.


I think they have more offensive talent than last year though, with Gordon, Sessions, and Walker's improvement.

 

[MHSL82]

Avery Johnson fired by Brooklyn Nets after starting 14-14

Deron Williams says he is not responsible for Avery Johnson firing - ESPN New York

Again, perhaps erroneously, Deron is accused of running Johnson out like he was accused of doing so with Sloan. While I know both of these could be false, I've also seen enough of Deron to know he does blame others, he is very vocal about certain things that could be left private, and he does seem to bitch about what's unfair - never using the word unfair, of course. He constantly talked about the Jazz and Nets moves as being determinative of where he was going to be, while under contract. It just seems to me, shut up and try to win, we'll judge you on a curve. Talk privately but understand there comes a point where you stop looking for help and take over.

This isn't totally fair, I'm just tired of Williams like I'm sure some people were tired of Malone when he was trying to get his first big deal. For his rookie contract and perhaps first extension, he was paid very little compared to today's athletes, and it took awhile before he got up there after a few superstars got paid. Obviously, he was paid a lot regardless.

P.S. Yes, I both quoted myself and copy and pasted me from another thread. I am so full of myself.

 

[nuraman00]

Deron Williams says he is not responsible for Avery Johnson firing - ESPN New York

Again, perhaps erroneously, Deron is accused of running Johnson out like he was accused of doing so with Sloan. While I know both of these could be false, I've also seen enough of Deron to know he does blame others, he is very vocal about certain things that could be left private, and he does seem to bitch about what's unfair - never using the word unfair, of course. He constantly talked about the Jazz and Nets moves as being determinative of where he was going to be, while under contract. It just seems to me, shut up and try to win, we'll judge you on a curve. Talk privately but understand there comes a point where you stop looking for help and take over.

This isn't totally fair, I'm just tired of Williams like I'm sure some people were tired of Malone when he was trying to get his first big deal. For his rookie contract and perhaps first extension, he was paid very little compared to today's athletes, and it took awhile before he got up there after a few superstars got paid. Obviously, he was paid a lot regardless.

P.S. Yes, I both quoted myself and copy and pasted me from another thread. I am so full of myself.

Williams also complained about the moves to not bring back Dee Brown (his college teammate), and trading away Brewer.

I don't mind athletes talking about moves -- I like hearing the various Knicks talk about the decision not to resign Lin.

Or Nowitzki talked about playing with Terry when Terry first joined the Mavs, or the decision to let Chandler and Barea go last year.

But Williams is also having a poor season.

I also don't think it took Deron any longer than it took other superstars from his draft class. He got an extension after his 3rd year, the same as other top players from that draft class.

lillybee (a Suns fan) was tired of Marion complaining about his role, before he was traded. I do think he was underutilized in Phoenix, but I also understand that that's not the point whether he was utilized fully or not, she was just tired of hearing about his role. I like the way Dallas has used him, as opposed to the way Phoenix used him. In the game that Stoudemire was suspended, during the 2007 playoffs, Marion had 25+ points at halftime, and I thought for once they finally ran some plays for him. I thought if Phoenix had used him more equally in the offense, it would have helped them.

During today's TNT games, they noticed that Deron was a top 5 trend on Twitter, but it was in relation to Johnson being fired. Not something you want to be trending for.

Deron has also praised the Nets moves, I believe he said that getting Joe Johnson had a huge influence on his decision to resign.

I believe Garnett barely complained about the moves Minnesota made, when he had the string of 7 straight 1st round exits. And he would be more justified to complain, since Minnesota didn't make good moves during that span. But, Garnett was also at fault for the lack of moves. He convinced management to try and sign Joe Smith to an illegal contract, which the NBA found out about, and punished Minnesota by taking away 5 future 1st round picks (2 of which were eventually reinstated).

When Minnesota acquired Cassell and Sprewell, he was very complimentary of them from day one, and said he finally felt like he had his equals.


When watching Williams games, I've felt he doesn't come out aggressive from the start, and his teams get behind too often. It's not just his teams I've felt that way about though. I've felt the same way about Paul's teams over the years too. Westbrook and Rondo, as far as modern PGs, are some of the few that I can feel their impact during the entire game, whether good or bad.

I don't have any real astute observation or point I was making. Just stating my observations about to what extent various players have voiced their opinions and frustrations.

 

[MHSL82]

Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal blast Deron Williams of Brooklyn Nets - ESPN New York

 

[nuraman00]

Supporters will point to Rivers' shot selection as the culprit for his poor percentages, but Hoopdata.com shows that the larger issue has been his inability to finish at the rim, where Rivers is making just 42.9 percent of his attempts (the league average is 63.9 percent). Though this will improve as Rivers learns to navigate rangy NBA shot-blockers, finishing is typically a skill players bring with them to the league. Bradley Beal, another one-and-done guard who has struggled at times during his rookie season, is shooting 61.0 percent at the rim.

It's amazing how far below the league average Rivers is, at shots near the rim. Even Kemba Walker, who only shot 36% from the field last year, was 49.4% at the rim.

 

[nuraman00]

I can't get my insider to work right now, but if you have insider, could you tell me if this is fair? And if so, is it true?

NBA - Austin Rivers having the worst season ever? - ESPN

He's averaging 7.8 points, 2.5 rebounds, 2.7 assists, blocks and steals negligible, shoots 35.1% overall, 36.7 from the three point line, and 62.3% on free throws. Was this that bad? I know the 34.6 from inside the three point line is terrible, but since you are a historian of the game, is this eligible for the worst season ever, given expectations and draft status, surrounding team, etc.?

If you limit it from 1979-1980 and beyond, then yes, is shooting is poor.

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

He is the 52nd worse shooter since then.

Some of the players who shot worse than him seemed to be better at assists, steals, blocks, or FT%.

I don't know if it's just his poor shooting, even with his limited assists, steals, blocks, and rebounds, that should make him the worst season ever. Some of the other players seem to be just as bad.

If I refine the search a little more, to players with less than 200 rebounds and 70% FT:

He's now in the top 17, sorted again by ascending FG%:

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Some of those players still seemed to be better at blocks or steals. But not all.

So there must be more to it that makes him worse.

Also, normally when naming someone the worst anything, draft status is usually not a factor. Because if you're bad enough to be the worst anything, it doesn't matter where you came from.

Was this just a headline made for grabbing attention?

I doubt it. The Hornets scouts and management probably just thought he was a good player. You don't want to waste 3-4 years on just a headline.

One year, maybe. But by the 2nd year, you have to be able to play.

Does it actually say it's not the worst season despite his numbers, telling a deeper story?

No, after reading the article, it says his season is the worst. There is no deeper story, other than that the season isn't complete, and that having a bad rookie year isn't necessarily a sign that he can't be good lader.

 

[MHSL82]

Also, normally when naming someone the worst anything, draft status is usually not a factor. Because if you're bad enough to be the worst anything, it doesn't matter where you came from.

If you are the worst ever, then yes, it is not a factor - but since there are so many statistical inputs in such an assessment, I believe draft status lead to the scrutiny that led to his particular assessment tools showing one aspect of being the worst - in which he then turned into an article. If he were the last pick of the draft, and yet were getting these minutes, I'd think there'd be an assumption that he's doing something right. But then again, it is possible to be a pure stat guy, unaffected by perception.

 

[MHSL82]

The Nets owner said he decided to fire Johnson last week but didn't do it until yesterday (?).

When asked about Phil Jackson being a candidate, the Nets owner said in regards to P.J. Carlesimo - "P.J. is the head coach and we have an amount of trust with him," Prokhorov said. "Now P.J. is the head coach, and if it become necessary, you know who the usual suspects are."

Maybe he's hired P.J., AKA Phil Jackson, now and won't tell us until next week?

Brooklyn Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov says team 'capable of much more' - ESPN New York

Also, what the hell does, "we have an amount of trust with him" mean? A zero amount? 50% amount? Just kidding. It could be saying things a bit shaded, but I guess that may be his English? I think he know English fine, but maybe he would have qualified the amount, with a word like 'great' amount.

Almost missed this: "Of course, it is only the beginning of the (season)," Prokhorov said. "(Expectations) are not very high, just championship, not more. We are only human beings."

We don't expect flying globe trotters out there, just a championship. We are only human beings. We don't expect to split the Higgs Boson Particle, just reproduce it with peanut butter. We are only human beings. I could find actual funny examples if I were funnier, but you get the point.

 

[nuraman00]

The Nets owner said he decided to fire Johnson last week but didn't do it until yesterday (?).

When asked about Phil Jackson being a candidate, the Nets owner said in regards to P.J. Carlesimo - "P.J. is the head coach and we have an amount of trust with him," Prokhorov said. "Now P.J. is the head coach, and if it become necessary, you know who the usual suspects are."

Maybe he's hired P.J., AKA Phil Jackson, now and won't tell us until next week?

Brooklyn Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov says team 'capable of much more' - ESPN New York

Also, what the hell does, "we have an amount of trust with him" mean? A zero amount? 50% amount? Just kidding. It could be saying things a bit shaded, but I guess that may be his English? I think he know English fine, but maybe he would have qualified the amount, with a word like 'great' amount.

Almost missed this: "Of course, it is only the beginning of the (season)," Prokhorov said. "(Expectations) are not very high, just championship, not more. We are only human beings."

We don't expect flying globe trotters out there, just a championship. We are only human beings. We don't expect to split the Higgs Boson Particle, just reproduce it with peanut butter. We are only human beings. I could find actual funny examples if I were funnier, but you get the point.

It's just meaningless quotes by members of an organization (Nets).

They had to say something.

 

[MHSL82]

It's just meaningless quotes by members of an organization (Nets).

They had to say something.

They had to say the minimum expectation is just a championship, nothing more? I was only kidding about the P.J. thing; that was just a coincidence. Same with the amount of confidence thing, I just thought that an amount was saying nothing.

 

[nuraman00]

They had to say the minimum expectation is just a championship, nothing more? I was only kidding about the P.J. thing; that was just a coincidence. Same with the amount of confidence thing, I just thought that an amount was saying nothing.

It was a good post, highlighting imperfect English.

 

[MHSL82]

What are your thoughts on Ricky Rubio? I didn't pay much attention this year or last, but by looking at the box scores, it's really bad shooting-wise, though he was good at assists last year. Don't know what a good A/T ratio is, but he's worse this year. By his lack of play, I know he's injured, but what type of injury and does that explain the struggles? Is it the NBA? Is it age and experience? Is it his teammates, being on the T'Wolves? Where would he fit best if looking from a production standpoint. For points, a bad team. But for assists, a good team would help. Do you know his style and what teams play that style (if any)? Is this just a matter of time because he's so young? (I thought he was older, having played overseas, but he's just barely 22.)

 

[nuraman00]

What are your thoughts on Ricky Rubio? I didn't pay much attention this year or last, but by looking at the box scores, it's really bad shooting-wise, though he was good at assists last year. Don't know what a good A/T ratio is, but he's worse this year. By his lack of play, I know he's injured, but what type of injury and does that explain the struggles? Is it the NBA? Is it age and experience? Is it his teammates, being on the T'Wolves? Where would he fit best if looking from a production standpoint. For points, a bad team. But for assists, a good team would help. Do you know his style and what teams play that style (if any)? Is this just a matter of time because he's so young? (I thought he was older, having played overseas, but he's just barely 22.)

When Rubio came into the league, I thought he would be Brevin Knight. A guy who will get some assists and steals, but who's shooting is so poor that it makes him useless.

He's changed my mind last year. Rubio is good. His shooting doesn't bother me because he has good shot selection; isn't afraid; and he can still get by defenders even if they lay off.

He's also a good defender for a young player.

Rubio is coming off a longterm injury, and isn't playing big minutes, so that explains his struggles. He'll be fine, give it a few weeks.

A good team doesn't help that much more in assists than a bad team. It's about the overall team fit. You can have a good system on a bad team.

Or you can still get assists on a bad team. Andre Miller lead the league in assists for Cleveland on 2001-2002, and they had one of the worst records.

Jose Calderon has been good at assists on a bad Toronto team.

You can also be a bad team for reasons other than offense. You can be a bad rebounding team, or a bad defensive team.

You can be a bad team because you have good players but not a superstar.

I am not sure about Minnesota's style this year, because I haven't seen Rubio play yet this year, since he just came back. And having someone like AK and Roy changes the style at times, compared to how they played in past years.

Rubio is fine on Minnesota. He's playing with some decent players in Love and Pekovic and Kirilenko. And they aren't expected to win now, so he can grow on the job.

Rubio's injury was a torn ACL in his left knee, so it's going to take some time for him to get used to movement on the court.

 

[nuraman00]

Marc Stein Marc SteinVerified ‏@ESPNSteinLine

"Any New Year's gifts? You don't know me very well, do you?" -- Spurs coach Gregg Popovich when asked if he's getting his players anything

 

[MHSL82]

Marc Stein Marc SteinVerified ‏@ESPNSteinLine

"Any New Year's gifts? You don't know me very well, do you?" -- Spurs coach Gregg Popovich when asked if he's getting his players anything

I don't know him, I could guess no because he's a serious coach who has his players disciplined on the court - but I can also see him being one who gains player's support and has that balance.

 

[nuraman00]

I don't know him, I could guess no because he's a serious coach who has his players disciplined on the court - but I can also see him being one who gains player's support and has that balance.

Maybe he gave Duncan and Parker those fake guns for Halloween?

 

[nuraman00]

I haven't read this yet, but this looks interesting.

OP delivering: "using statistics to test the conventional wisdom that three-pointers are easier to rebound for the offense" Part Two! : nba

 

[nuraman00]

Denver snapped Chicago's 18 game winning streak in 1996, and the Clippers 17 game streak today.

Only team in NBA history to break 17+ game winning streaks, twice.

 

[MHSL82]

I haven't read this yet, but this looks interesting.

OP delivering: "using statistics to test the conventional wisdom that three-pointers are easier to rebound for the offense" Part Two! : nba

Thanks, I left this as a link only because knowing you, I'd think you'd want to leave it so the poster gets credit for writing it. I might be wrong, but that's my guess. Didn't do it for the insider article, because everyone already knows it was done by ESPN Insider.

 

[MHSL82]

Denver snapped Chicago's 18 game winning streak in 1996, and the Clippers 17 game streak today.

Only team in NBA history to break 17+ game winning streaks, twice.

Sweet. I don't like teams going beyond 17 in a row. They tend to get too uppity. We needed Chicago, who just fell to the Bobcats, to put them in their place. Even if a team had broken two 17+ game winning streaks, they wouldn't likely have also broke an opponents' 17+ game losing streak the game before (18).