The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[Mecca]

And SGA is #2 on everyone’s list as you have clearly seen. I don’t know what SGA needs to do but he was clearly boosted by the fact that he‘s as important to his team as he is.

That helped him, not enough to win MVP but enough to make him 2nd.

He got 10 votes.

Out of 100.

That’s disgraceful.

 

[Duffman]

Oh you mean SGA? What seed would he have to be in order to be MVP?

Call up your NBA voting buddies and ask them.

Also too bad seeding isn’t the ONLY thing that matters. This year SGA being a Top 3 seed directly let him to be #2 on everyone’s board. Maybe next year if he does this again he’ll be number one. Only they can answer.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yea

On this one it's hard to argue that's not a factor.

Steve Fucking Nash has two MVPs Bwahahaha!

 

[tlance]

Yes it's 1

So look at the 07 Cavs roster and tell me Jokic deserves to be on a plane with LeBron James.

Jokic is a fantastic player. But the precedent is this glass ceiling to getting multiple MVPs. That's the precedent. Jokic is not clearly the best player nor is the team smoking expectations.

It's absolutely absurd anyone with a vote is doing this.

See, but here is the problem with that logic.

LeBron was hands down the best player in the league for at least a dozen years. Does the fact that he got SGA’d a few times take away from his legacy at all?

Not to me.

Just like Jokic winning his third isn’t going to boost him ahead of players like Hakeem in the history books.

And I sincerely hope that the precedent of voter fatigue can end for all times so that we can actually use MVPs for what it is intended to be.

A legacy defining award.

And not just “oh it is this guy’s turn now”.

Because that is BS.

 

[Duffman]

That’s the precedent that’s been set. Listen, I know you just discovered basketball but it’s been played for a long time.

Precedent by who? Clearly not the people in the NBA who actually vote on these things. Or do you just mean by people on a sports message board.

 

[fightinfunbags]

You don’t have to be an ass.

I understand every aspect of this conversation.

I just fundamentally disagree with you.

Of course # of MVPs matter. But just like every other measure of a player’s greatness, context matters too.

These debates aren’t settled by accolades alone.

So I want the most deserving player to win every year.

This year it is Jokic IMO.

Here’s the context:
Sports writers have gotten lazy. They deal in hot takes all day and they don’t watch people actually play games. So even more than before a narrative driven award has become completely narrative and the narrative is driven by math formulas. That’s sad as shit.

15-20 years from now people are gonna look back on 3 MVPs for this dude in 4 years and they’re gonna say What The Fuck

 

[fightinfunbags]

Last I checked the MVP was a regular season award.

Also, you know it’s 1.

Except when they give it to a dude on the 6 seed.

 

[Duffman]

Here’s the context:
Sports writers have gotten lazy. They deal in hot takes all day and they don’t watch people actually play games. So even more than before a narrative driven award has become completely narrative and the narrative is driven by math formulas. That’s sad as shit.

15-20 years from now people are gonna look back on 3 MVPs for this dude in 4 years and they’re gonna say What The Fuck

How many does Embiid have since you can see into the future?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

See, but here is the problem with that logic.

LeBron was hands down the best player in the league for at least a dozen years. Does the fact that he got SGA’d a few times take away from his legacy at all?

Not to me.

Just like Jokic winning his third isn’t going to boost him ahead of players like Hakeem in the history books.

And I sincerely hope that the precedent of voter fatigue can end for all times so that we can actually use MVPs for what it is intended to be.

A legacy defining award.

And not just “oh it is this guy’s turn now”.

Because that is BS.

Precedent matters

At this point I'd argue the other side of this discussion that I took yesterday. It comes off as white voters gonna bypass precedent to give the white guy the MVP.

 

[thunderc]

Shai out again tomorrow night in Indy. Looks like Jdub might be back. Thunder trying not to lose 3 in a row for the first time all season.

 

[Duffman]

Except when they give it to a dude on the 6 seed.

A dude who carried a team to the 6th seed where without him they'd be a bottom 3 team in the league that year.

It’s almost like it’s based more than just one single thing.

 

[Duffman]

Here’s the context:
Sports writers have gotten lazy. They deal in hot takes all day and they don’t watch people actually play games. So even more than before a narrative driven award has become completely narrative and the narrative is driven by math formulas. That’s sad as shit.

15-20 years from now people are gonna look back on 3 MVPs for this dude in 4 years and they’re gonna say What The Fuck

Here‘s the context:
Someone on this forum is extremely triggered by Jokid and cries every time someone says something nice about him

 

[fightinfunbags]

How many does Embiid have since you can see into the future?

He finishes with Go Fuck Yourself Musical Theater Boy

 

[fightinfunbags]

A dude who carried a team to the 6th seed where without him they'd be a bottom 3 team in the league that year.

It’s almost like it’s based more than just one single thing.

It’s almost as if they change the pieces of the narrative all the time but the major driver is math formulas because the media is lazy.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Here‘s the context:
Someone on this forum is extremely triggered by Jokid and cries every time someone says something nice about him

Musical Theater Nancy can’t make a basketball argument. Narrative driven popular contests are your wheel house.

 

[tlance]

Precedent matters

At this point I'd argue the other side of this discussion that I took yesterday. It comes off as white voters gonna bypass precedent to give the white guy the MVP.

Yeah, that sucks. And unfortunately that might be why. Or at least part of it.

But I hate the precedent. I always have and I always will.

 

[Mecca]

Precedent by who? Clearly not the people in the NBA who actually vote on these things. Or do you just mean by people on a sports message board.

Prime example of voter fatigue…


Consider one infamous example. In 1997, Michael Jordan outplayed Karl Malone by most traditional MVP markers. He averaged 2.2 more points, won five more games, received more votes for Defensive Player of the Year (both were chosen for First-Team All-Defense) and, though they were not prevalent at the time, held the advantage in virtually every catch-all metric. Malone won the trophy

 

[Duffman]

It’s almost as if they change the pieces of the narrative all the time but the major driver is math formulas because the media is lazy.

It’s almost like you’re giant crybaby who can’t handle that he would vote differently if he had a vote and is not getting his way.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yeah, that sucks. And unfortunately that might be why. Or at least part of it.

But I hate the precedent. I always have and I always will.

Cool. When are you going to accept reality? It sucks that I wasn’t born a Rockefeller and I don’t have a 10 inch dong. But you move on and accept reality.

Jabronis who never watched him play are gonna prop up Jokic as an all time center based on this fugaze 3 MVPs in 4 seasons.

 

[Duffman]

Prime example of voter fatigue…


Most MVP candidates are judged against the field. Prior winners, however, are often judged against their past selves. Consider one infamous example. In 1997, Michael Jordan outplayed Karl Malone by most traditional MVP markers. He averaged 2.2 more points, won five more games, received more votes for Defensive Player of the Year (both were chosen for First-Team All-Defense) and, though they were not prevalent at the time, held the advantage in virtually every catch-all metric. Malone won the trophy

I have no doubt voter fatigue exists and all that is factored, if that’s the case then why is it not happening to Jokic here?