The NBA rookies Thread

[flyerhawk]

I think this is what @bksballer89 is referring too.

You keep trying to downplay Donovan and the Jazz.

The two situations are not mutually exclusive.

Both guys can be worthy of winning without us having to Shit on the other.

What part of "I think you could make a strong argument for either" is downplaying Mitchell? I have repeatedly said that it is a two man race between the two.

The Jazz just won 10 straight games. Do you think they will win the next 10?

 

[Mecca]

What part of "I think you could make a strong argument for either" is downplaying Mitchell? I have repeatedly said that it is a two man race between the two.

The Jazz just won 10 straight games. Do you think they will win the next 10?

Dude, stop it...

You gave them a backhanded compliment by following it up with " They aren't the Warriors" ...

" When the streak ends, confidence wanes"....

He's making shots NOW.

They are on a winning streak NOW.

Make the playoffs or not, he has had a fantastic year despite a slow start.

Sorry if that contradicts your narrative that Simmons was a shoe in.

He's not.

He could very well win or tie.

But, Donovan is worthy despite you trying to Shit on his candidacy.

 

[Mecca]

FYI....

Pro Donovan doesn't mean anti-Simmons.

 

[Sparhawk]

If only we had the rest of the season for this to play out.....

 

[trojanfan12]

FYI....

Pro Donovan doesn't mean anti-Simmons.

^^^THIS^^^

Similar thing happened with the Sixers/Lakers/T-Wolves debate about young talent.

What's wrong with all 3 teams having very good young players who seem to fit what those teams were looking for and have them all headed in the right direction?

 

[flyerhawk]

Dude, stop it...

You gave them a backhanded compliment by following it up with " They aren't the Warriors" ...

" When the streak ends, confidence wanes"....

He's making shots NOW.

They are on a winning streak NOW.

Sorry if that contradicts your narrative that Simmons was a shoe in.

He's not.

He could very well win or tie.

But, Donovan is worthy despite you trying to Shit on his candidacy.

FFS, I HATE this crap. The moment a fan of a team offers anything but glowing praise of others, they are painting as a blind homer. I'm not backhanding Mitchell.

Are the Jazz hot right now? Yes
Will the Jazz continue to win every game or nearly every game? No.
Could the Jazz win 45-50 games? Absolutely.
Could they Jazz win fewer than 40 games? Absolutely.

I said this earlier in this thread "Well the Jazz are on a tear right now. Certainly if they keep winning I would say that Mitchell is a lock for the RoY. If the Jazz wind up with 45 wins or so then Mitchell will almost certainly be RoY."

For the Jazz to win 45 games that means that they would need to win 65% of their remaining games. OMG, talk about establishing an absurd standard.

Wow. I was really shitting on Mitchell.

Yet by simply identifying that the Jazz are playing really well and that they may fall back into playing mediocre basketball, that somehow means that I'm slamming Mitchell.

You are doing a knee jerk response to really mild observations which is no different than a Sixer fan doing exactly what you claim.

 

[Mecca]

^^^THIS^^^

Similar thing happened with the Sixers/Lakers/T-Wolves debate about young talent.

What's wrong with all 3 teams having very good young players who seem to fit what those teams were looking for and have them all headed in the right direction?

Yeah, I don't get it.

I brought that up earlier too.

Sure, who's talent is best is debatable.

But, the fact that all 3 Teams have a ton of it is not!!!

I'm not trying to take anything away from Simmons.

I'd kill to have him on my Team.

Long-term, he is likely to be the better player.

But, this year I give the slight edge for the award to the guy who had to carry the heavier load.

 

[Mecca]

FFS, I HATE this crap. The moment a fan of a team offers anything but glowing praise of others, they are painting as a blind homer. I'm not backhanding Mitchell.

Are the Jazz hot right now? Yes
Will the Jazz continue to win every game or nearly every game? No.
Could the Jazz win 45-50 games? Absolutely.
Could they Jazz win fewer than 40 games? Absolutely.

I said this earlier in this thread "Well the Jazz are on a tear right now. Certainly if they keep winning I would say that Mitchell is a lock for the RoY. If the Jazz wind up with 45 wins or so then Mitchell will almost certainly be RoY."

For the Jazz to win 45 games that means that they would need to win 65% of their remaining games. OMG, talk about establishing an absurd standard.

Wow. I was really shitting on Mitchell.

Yet by simply identifying that the Jazz are playing really well and that they may fall back into playing mediocre basketball, that somehow means that I'm slamming Mitchell.

You are doing a knee jerk response to really mild observations which is no different than a Sixer fan doing exactly what you claim.

Dude....

Okay, let's lay it all out there.

You are a hypocrite.

There, I said it.

You had no issue delving deep on Lonzo and his struggles.

Anyone mention Fultz and his Shitshow of a Season, you get defensive.

You post bullshit about him being close.

Someone posts something that debunks the Shit out of your post, you get defensive.

Anything not overwhelmingly pro-76ers you come unhinged.

It's a bad look.

I'm not trying to attack you.

But, this is my perception.

For months, you thought this award was sewn up.

It's not.

You said Simmons was better than Mitchell because Ben would be a All-star.

He's not.

It's okay to be wrong and it's okay that your guy has competition.

 

[flyerhawk]

Dude....

Okay, let's lay it all out there.

You are a hypocrite.

There, I said it.

You had no issue delving deep on Lonzo and his struggles.

Anyone mention Fultz and his Shitshow of a Season, you get defensive.

You post bullshit about him being close.

Someone posts something that debunks the Shit out of your post, you get defensive.

Anything not overwhelmingly pro-76ers you come unhinged.

It's a bad look.

I'm not trying to attack you.

But, this is my perception.

For months, you thought this award was sewn up.

It's not.

You said Simmons was better than Mitchell because Ben would be a All-star.

He's not.

It's okay to be wrong and it's okay that your guy has competition.

I see. So me being optimistic about my team is now a bad look. Gotcha.

It seems like you want to pick a fight, so be it.

I was wrong about Fultz coming back about now. Clearly there are problems there that make it worse than I thought at the time.

I fail to see what Lonzo has to do with that. Lonzo is actually playing or was at least. There was something to analyze.

Neither of those points have much to do with the issue at hand but fine.

Here is what I ACTUALLY said about Simmons being an all-star "
Regardless of whether Simmons should or should not be an all-star, he is a rookie who is likely to be an all-star. There have only been 3 rookies to make an all start team in the last 20 years. Griffin, Yao Ming, and Tim Duncan.

Now,granted, this is one of the strongest rookie classes in a very long time. So it is far from certain that Simmons will win RoY. But being an All Star will certainly help."

He wound up not making the all-star so that point is moot. So, yay, you can point out how wrong I was.

But what does any of that have to do with what we are talking about here? It seems like you are more interested in calling me a homer than actually having a discussion. Which is odd since we were having a perfectly reasonable conversation up until bskballer made his comment about Sixer fans and you decided to engage in that food fight.

And rather than own up to that and admit that I WASN'T shitting on Mitchell you decide to get personal.

So be it. I never had a problem with you in the past and generally liked chatting with you. But if you want to make it a personal fight, take a number.

 

[Mecca]

I see. So me being optimistic about my team is now a bad look. Gotcha.

It seems like you want to pick a fight, so be it.

I was wrong about Fultz coming back about now. Clearly there are problems there that make it worse than I thought at the time.

I fail to see what Lonzo has to do with that. Lonzo is actually playing or was at least. There was something to analyze.

Neither of those points have much to do with the issue at hand but fine.

Here is what I ACTUALLY said about Simmons being an all-star "
Regardless of whether Simmons should or should not be an all-star, he is a rookie who is likely to be an all-star. There have only been 3 rookies to make an all start team in the last 20 years. Griffin, Yao Ming, and Tim Duncan.

Now,granted, this is one of the strongest rookie classes in a very long time. So it is far from certain that Simmons will win RoY. But being an All Star will certainly help."

He wound up not making the all-star so that point is moot. So, yay, you can point out how wrong I was.

But what does any of that have to do with what we are talking about here? It seems like you are more interested in calling me a homer than actually having a discussion. Which is odd since we were having a perfectly reasonable conversation up until bskballer made his comment about Sixer fans and you decided to engage in that food fight.

And rather than own up to that and admit that I WASN'T shitting on Mitchell you decide to get personal.

So be it. I never had a problem with you in the past and generally liked chatting with you. But if you want to make it a personal fight, take a number.

I'm not trying to pick a fight

Honestly, that wasn't my INITIAL intention.

You are a homer.

We all are.

But, you really do have a tendency to get defensive and it usually devolves into.......this.

Not with me, this is our first...likely not our last.

My point with Lonzo is you were good to discuss his problems in-depth.

You showed no inclination to do the same with Fultz when I posted about his head being screwed up and him probably missing the Season.

It's premature when it's a 6ers. But, fair game if it's anyone else.

As for Simmons, that quote about his all-star possibility sounds about right. You didn't say it was a certainty. Just highly likely based on the fact that Simmons is one of the best players in the NBA.

You still stand by that?

Based on potential, his ceiling is thru the roof.

But, on actual play?

Where do you have him?

Top 30?

Top 20?

As for this particular debate...

Like I said months ago, if Simmons is the next LebRon, Mitchell is the next Westbrook.

Last I checked, Westbrook won the award even though LeBron is recognized as the best player.

Ps. I'm wrong allllllllllllll the time. Here and in RL. I'm still living...lol

 

[Sparhawk]

Well, that escalated quickly....

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm not trying to pick a fight

Honestly, that wasn't my INITIAL intention.

You are a homer.

We all are.

Of course I'm homer. I would not suggest otherwise.

But, you really do have a tendency to get defensive and it usually devolves into.......this.

I get defensive when people make it personal. I don't like when people say "Geez Sixers fans are all ridiculous and over the time" thus suggesting they are less credible fans. People should measured on their comments, and not some group association.

Not with me, this is our first...likely not our last.

My point with Lonzo is you were good to discuss his problems in-depth.

You showed no inclination to do the same with Fultz when I posted about his head being screwed up and him probably missing the Season.

It's premature when it's a 6ers. But, fair game if it's anyone else.

Lonzo is actually playing games. Fultz is not. There is something to analyze with Lonzo. Fultz is pure speculation.

As for Simmons, that quote about his all-star possibility sounds about right. You didn't say it was a certainty. Just highly likely based on the fact that Simmons is one of the best players in the NBA.

You still stand by that?


But, on actual play?

Where do you have him?

Top 30?

Top 20?

I could provide links to others calling him a top 20 players in the media if you like.

IMO, his lack of any outside shot limits his overall game too much to put him that 20 range.

I think an argument could be made for top 30, maybe. Top 50 for sure.


As for this particular debate...

Like I said months ago, if Simmons is the next LebRon, Mitchell is the next Westbrook.

Last I checked, Westbrook won the award even though LeBron is recognized as the best player.

Ps. I'm wrong allllllllllllll the time. Here and in RL. I'm still living...lol

I have not one time shit on Mitchell. I agreed with YOU that he doesn't really play defense or it isn't a focus. That's the closest to me criticizing him. He is certainly RoY worthy.

 

[Mecca]

Of course I'm homer. I would not suggest otherwise.



I get defensive when people make it personal. I don't like when people say "Geez Sixers fans are all ridiculous and over the time" thus suggesting they are less credible fans. People should measured on their comments, and not some group association.



Lonzo is actually playing games. Fultz is not. There is something to analyze with Lonzo. Fultz is pure speculation.



I could provide links to others calling him a top 20 players in the media if you like.

IMO, his lack of any outside shot limits his overall game too much to put him that 20 range.

I think an argument could be made for top 30, maybe. Top 50 for sure.


As for this particular debate...



I have not one time shit on Mitchell. I agreed with YOU that he doesn't really play defense or it isn't a focus. That's the closest to me criticizing him. He is certainly RoY worthy.

Uh....I don't need a link, I was asking your personal opinion.

I never lumped all Sixers fans together either and don't have a pack mentality.

So, me responding to what @bksballer89 said was just that.

My thoughts on the topic.

The Fultz situation is speculation?

Okay, but.....not speculation with no basis when the Team says he is healthy, has no pain, but can't play.

Did I see his medical report?...lol..no.

But, you see what's being reported just like the rest of us.

Sounds like his head to me.

 

[Mecca]

Well, that escalated quickly....

No, it's all good...lol

 

[Sparhawk]

No, it's all good...lol

I know.
I'm a homer.
If I choose to defend my stance with logic, stats, and crystal clear evidence while others do not, so be it.

If there's one thing I've learned all these years is that you have to respect the opinions of others, no matter how silly they may be....

 

[Mecca]

I know.
I'm a homer.
If I choose to defend my stance with logic, stats, and crystal clear evidence while others do not, so be it.

If there's one thing I've learned all these years is that you have to respect the opinions of others, no matter how silly they may be....

Agree.

I'm guilty of NOT doing that at times.

I get dug in with my opinion and the conversation devolves into as evidenced today.

 

[shopson67]

I know.
I'm a homer.
If I choose to defend my stance with logic, stats, and crystal clear evidence while others do not, so be it.

If there's one thing I've learned all these years is that you have to respect the opinions of others, no matter how silly they may be....

To a point, and not when someone presents their opinions as fact, or holding more weight than someone else's (both common discussion board tactics). Before anyone gets twisted, I'm NOT pointing any fingers at anyone in this current discussion.

 

[flyerhawk]

Uh....I don't need a link, I was asking your personal opinion.

I never lumped all Sixers fans together either and don't have a pack mentality.

So, me responding to what @bksballer89 said was just that.

My thoughts on the topic.

The Fultz situation is speculation?

Okay, but.....not speculation with no basis when the Team says he is healthy, has no pain, but can't play.

Did I see his medical report?...lol..no.

But, you see what's being reported just like the rest of us.

Sounds like his head to me.

What I meant by the links is that there are a lot of folks that do rate Simmons very highly. Personally I think too highly. The Ringer had him at 15 at one point which was way too high.

My point about Fultz and speculation is that none of us really know what the heck is going on because he isn't playing. Clearly there are problems. Mostly likely they are mental, at least to some degree. It seemed like he was making progress but Colangelo's comments would suggest not nearly as much as I had hoped.

 

[Mecca]

What I meant by the links is that there are a lot of folks that do rate Simmons very highly. Personally I think too highly. The Ringer had him at 15 at one point which was way too high.

My point about Fultz and speculation is that none of us really know what the heck is going on because he isn't playing. Clearly there are problems. Mostly likely they are mental, at least to some degree. It seemed like he was making progress but Colangelo's comments would suggest not nearly as much as I had hoped.

Okay, I get your points.

Hard for me to rank Simmons because of it being only half a year into his career and because of Embiid.

I think it's a huge plus that Embiid takes a huge chunk of the attention, and pressure, off of Ben with his play and troll game.

It's the Scottie Pippen syndrome.

How great could he be as a #1 option?

But, how much greater will his career be since he doesn't have to be?

I'm pretty sure Dame Lillard would love to have a legit Superstar talent to share the load.

Simmons could put up bigger stats if he had too.

Thankfully, he doesn't have to.

 

[flyerhawk]

Okay, I get your points.

Hard for me to rank Simmons because of it being only half a year into his career and because of Embiid.

I think it's a huge plus that Embiid takes a huge chunk of the attention, and pressure, off of Ben with his play and troll game.

It's the Scottie Pippen syndrome.

How great could he be as a #1 option?

But, how much greater will his career be since he doesn't have to be?

I'm pretty sure Dame Lillard would love to have a legit Superstar talent to share the load.

Simmons could put up bigger stats if he had too.

Thankfully, he doesn't have to.

Agreed with all of this. I actually think that Reddick helps a lot as well because he is a persistent perimeter threat so Simmons can often kick it out to him.

Simmons has a long way to go offensively. He probably is a long way from developing a 3 point shot but hopefully he will work on that 18 foot pullup jumper which is going to make him really tough to defend. If he can get a 3 point shot that hits in the 30s, I'm not sure he is defensible.