• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

The 2017-18 Game-By-Game MVPs Discussion Thread

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I wonder if there will be a game this year where Gobert has 4 blocks and Mitchell has 4 steals.

And each player has 1 turnover or less.

I wouldn't mind it if it were the other way around, either. Gobert with 4 steals and Mitchell with 4 blocks.

Substitute Favors or Ingles too. I guess any Jazz player, but these four (Gobert, Mitchell, Favors, Ingles) are the most likely to get blocks and steals.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Knicks vs. Jazz - Box Score - January 19, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Gobert, 23 Points, 14 Rebounds, 3 Blocks, 1 Assist, 7-10 Shooting, 3 TOs. First game back, perhaps some Kanter motivation, went to the line a lot and shot OK, but better free throw shooting would have won the game. Some kickouts for more assists could have helped. Didn't see the turnovers, but three is too many.
2. MVP2:
Rubio, 17 Points, 5 Assists, 5 Rebounds, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 2 TOs. Fewer turnovers and shooting are why he gets the nod over Mitchell.
3. HM3:
Mitchell, 17 Points, 7 Assists, 4 Rebounds, 1 Steal, 1 Block, Poor shooting, 5 TOs(!). Assists are the reason why he's above Hood. Probably would have more if not for the Knicks fouling Gobert so often. 5 fouls also suggests that he might not be taking advantage of Gobert being there if someone beats him off the dribble.
4. HM4:
Johnson, 15 Points, 5 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Block, OK shooting, 1 TO.
5. HM5: Hood, 18 Points, 5 Rebounds, 1 Steal, 1 Block, Good shooting, 4 TOs. Good shooting is why he's above Ingles, despite his turnovers. Too many turnovers to put him above Johnson.
6. HM6:
Ingles, 9 Points, 4 Assists, 7 Rebounds, Good shooting, 0 TOs. Good contribution off the bench. 9 points fewer than Hood is too much to overcome, but otherwise would have for 0 vs. 4 TOs.
7. HM7:
Favors, 7 Points, 7 Rebounds, 1 Assist, OK shooting, 2 TOs.

Good overall offensive distribution. Bad defense at home, but not sure if being home matters much. Beat San Antonio with us missing a few players, Cleveland, etc., but ehh.

For Gobert, were you referring to better FOUL shooting? He went 9-15 from the foul line.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
With regards to Mitchell's fouls, it's ok to use Gobert as a safety, but it's also not a good idea to put Gobert in a position to pick up more fouls too.

In the 90s and early 2000s, I thought Sloan's teams fouled too much.

I think they're better now, but I don't want the fouls to be reduced because they are getting beaten off the dribble more.

They have to find ways to keep the man and the ball in front of them.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I didn't see the game, but somehow I feel Favors did ok, he just didn't show up in the stat sheet. But as I said, I didn't see the game.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Clippers vs. Jazz - Box Score - January 20, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Mitchell, 23 Points, 7 Assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 Steals, Good shooting, 1-6 from Downtown, Poor FT shooting, 4 TOs. Too many turnovers, cold from downtown, but I like that he's gotten 7 assists two times in a row.
2. MVP2:
Ingles, 21 Points, 4 Steals, 2 Assists, 4 Rebounds, Good shooting, 5-10 from Downtown, 3 TOs. Would have been the MVP if he had a few more assists and didn't have three turnovers. Good defense.
3. HM3:
Gobert, 16 Points, 7 Rebounds, 3 Blocks, 6-9 Shooting, Poor FT shooting, 0 TOs.
4. HM4: Rubio, 12 Points, 6 Assists, 6 Rebounds, 1 Steal, Poor shooting, 2 TOs. Shooting and turnovers is why he's not above Gobert. But, also, teams have to account for Gobert more when they are on offense. Bigger impact. I try not to make that too much of a default to put other players down.
5. HM5:
Favors, 14 Points, 12 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 3 TOs. Did what he should well, except the three turnovers.
6. HM6:
Burks, 15 Points, 6 Rebounds, Good shooting, 1 TO. Welcome back, Burks. Should see more of you if Hood is traded (depending on for who).
7. HM7:
Jerebko, 7 Points, 6 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 3-3 Shooting, 1-1 from Downtown, 0 TOs.

Welcome back Burks.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Aaagh, someone has a 10 steal game, and I didn't see it.

I know he's on the Clippers, but I don't think I've ever seen an 8 steal game on TV. It would have been cool to see a 10 steal game because of how rare it is. And it's not a playoffs game, so it's easier to appreciate it because the stakes don't matter as much if an opposing team does something like this.

Los Angeles Clippers at Utah Jazz Play-By-Play, January 20, 2018 | Basketball-Reference.com

7:10.0 11-13 Turnover by J. Ingles (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
5:15.0 44-57 Turnover by D. Favors (lost ball; steal by L. Williams)
4:13.0 46-59 Turnover by D. Mitchell (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
7:51.0 67-88 Turnover by R. Rubio (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
4:29.0 77-94 Turnover by D. Mitchell (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
2:02.0 86-98 Turnover by R. O'Neale (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
1:11.0 86-102 Turnover by D. Favors (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
6:48.0 99-108 Turnover by J. Ingles (bad pass; steal by L. Williams)
5:48.0 100-110 Turnover by D. Mitchell (lost ball; steal by L. Williams)
1:59.0 108-117 Turnover by D. Mitchell (lost ball; steal by L. Williams)

The Steals were broken down like this:

Mitchell x4
Ingles x2
Favors x2
Rubio
O'Neale

They were categorized like this:

Bad Pass: x7
Lost Ball: x3

I think the last 10 steal game was in the 70s.

I remember when a rookie Jameer Nelson had 9 steals, most of which were on Iverson. That's the last time I remember a 9 steal game.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
@MHSL82 says he likes the steals where someone takes it away from the other person.

So the ultimate 10 steal game would consist of 10 "lost balls", instead of "bad passes".

Because that would be the stealer took it.

Yes, I like steals, but I like the one's Stockton got. I've seen him take the ball from the opponent. Now, I mostly see turnovers when I see steals - I know, a steal is a turnover, but more talking about bad passes. Or sometimes it looks like a loose ball gathering more than a steal.

I know what you mean.

Maybe that's why I haven't been excited about the steals race in a while, because they're not like what Stockton, Payton, and Kidd did. As you said, they took the ball, rather than grabbed a loose ball.

Artest, Tony Allen, and Doug Christie were also standouts in more recent years.

I don't get excited by Leonard steals as much for some reason. Maybe they fit the less impressive style.

I don't know what to think about Westbrook steals. Sometimes they're ok, but I don't have a more definitely opinion.

Chris Paul does take the ball away. He and Tony Allen might be the only one's in this year's game.
 

MHSL82

Well-Known Member
16,720
883
113
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.92
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
For Gobert, were you referring to better FOUL shooting? He went 9-15 from the foul line.

Yes, just like I said, free throw shooting. ;)
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Jazz vs. Raptors - Box Score - January 26, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Gobert, 18 Points, 15 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 2 Blocks, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 3 TOs. Only negative thing was the 3 three turnovers.
2. MVP2:
Mitchell, 26 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, OK shooting, Good from Downtown, 1 TO. Mitchell is being streaky shooting slump. Too one dimensional this game, can't disappear away from shooting.
3. HM3:
Rubio, 14 Points, 6 Assists, 6 Rebounds, 2 Steals, OK shooting, Good from Downtown, 3 TOs. Developing some consistent good performances lately.
4. HM4:
Favors, 10 Points, 9 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 1 Block, 1 Assist, Good shooting, 1 TO. Rebounding much better than at the start of the year. Meshing with Gobert better than previous stints.
5. HM5:
Ingles, 11 Points, 4 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 3 TOs.
6. HM6: Jerebko, 5 Points, 2 Assists, 2 Rebounds, 1 Block, Poor shooting, 0 TOs.
7. HM7: Burks, 5 Points, 3 Rebounds, 1 Assist, Poor shooting, 0 TOs.

Warriors vs. Jazz - Box Score - January 30, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Rubio, 23 Points, 11 Assists, 5 Rebounds, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 3 TOs. All-around great game, contributing.
2. MVP2:
Mitchell, 20 Points, 4 Steals, 4 Assist, 3 Rebounds, OK shooting, 1 TO. More multi-dimensional, good defense, and doing a better job protecting the ball. Only 2 turnovers in total for the last two games.
3. HM3: Favors, 18 Points, 10 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 1 Block, 9-11 Shooting, 1 TO. Consistent rebounding.
4. HM4:
Ingles, 20 Points, 2 Assists, 1 Rebound, 1 Steal, 7-11 Shooting, 6-8 from Downtown, 1 TO. Uncharacteristically one dimensional, but on a hot streak from downtown (10-15 last two games).
5. HM5:
Gobert, 9 Points, 6 Rebounds, 3 Steals, 1 Assist, Good shooting, 0 TOs.
6. HM6: Burks, 9 Points, 5 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 2 TOs.
7. HM7: Johnson 8 Points, 5 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 1 Steal, 1 Block, Good shooting, 2 TOs.
8. HM8: Jerebko, 9 Points, 3 Rebounds, Good Shooting, 0 TOs. NO POINTS, just a mention.

Great game, but damnit, Mitchell! Only player to not shoot 50% or above and he was 8-17! In a 30 point win, you could have passed the ball instead of missing one more shot!!!

Impressive week by the Jazz. It almost makes @MHSL82 want to say the Magic Words.

Maybe if this continued for a bit longer.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Are you going to give your analysis of why they're ranked where?

What's the highest Joe Johnson was this year?
 

MHSL82

Well-Known Member
16,720
883
113
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.92
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Are you going to give your analysis of why they're ranked where?

What's the highest Joe Johnson was this year?

I fell behind. Felt it was better to have it there first. Then, I was coming back to fill it out. It might change a bit when I type it out. Typing it out is sometimes talking it out. Things become clearer that it's "right" or wrong. It forces me to also look more at non-point, non-assist factors and also more on turnovers and shooting.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I fell behind. Felt it was better to have it there first. Then, I was coming back to fill it out. It might change a bit when I type it out. Typing it out is sometimes talking it out. Things become clearer that it's "right" or wrong. It forces me to also look more at non-point, non-assist factors and also more on turnovers and shooting.

So are you saying "I'm late, I'm late"?
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Jazz vs. Suns - Box Score - February 2, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1:
Mitchell, 40 Points, 6 Assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 14-19 Shooting, 2 TOs. Do I really need an explanation? 33 Minutes.
2. MVP2:
Rubio, 14 Points, 9 Assists, 2 Steals, Good shooting, 0 TOs.
3. HM3: Gobert, 10 Points, 5 Blocks, 9 Rebounds (3 Offensive), 1 Assist, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 5 TOs. Outside of the five turnovers, biggest impact, but the 5 turnovers vs. Rubio's 0? 9 Assists is < 5 Blocks, maybe. But 4 more points, 8 more assists, 1 more steal, and 5 fewer turnovers > 5 Blocks and 3 more rebounds.
4. HM4:
Favors, 12 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, OK shooting, 0 TOs. Tiebreaker over O'Neale is that the starters led to the 32 point lead more than the reserves based upon +/- and normal likelihood.
5. HM5:
O'Neale, 8 Points, 4 Assists, 6 Rebounds, 2 Steals, OK shooting, 0 TOs.
6. HM6: Johnson, 12 Points, 2 Assists, 4 Rebounds, Good shooting, 0 TOs.
7. HM7: Ingles, 16 Points, 2 Assists, 1 Rebound, Good shooting, 1 TO. Too one dimensional to be listed earlier. Few minutes, but still.

0 turnovers from Rubio is impressive.

Favors and Rubio combined for 0 turnovers. Wow.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Spurs vs. Jazz - Box Score - February 12, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Mitchell, 25 Points, 7 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 3 Steals, Poor shooting, 1 TO.
2. MVP2: Favors, 19 Points, 7 Rebounds, 3 Blocks, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 0 TOs.
3. HM3: Ingles, 20 Points, 7 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 1 Steal, Good shooting, 2 TOs.
4. HM4: Gobert, 10 Points, 12 Rebounds, 2 Blocks, 2 Assists, 1 Steal, OK turnovers, 2 TOs.
5. HM5: O'Neale, 8 Points, 3 Rebounds, Good shooting, 1 TO. Defense.
6. HM6:
Crowder, 14 Points, 3 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, Poor shooting, 2 TOs. Hustle.
7. HM7:
Neto, 2 Points, 2 Assists, Poor shooting, 1 TO. Default.

Tentative Rankings!!! @nuraman00 - I need your input, given the following observations:

1. O'Neale:
Huge defensive stand on the last play by O'Neale. Didn't bite on the shot fake, stayed in front of his man. While the ball handler lost his dribble, part of that is the good pressure by O'Neale.
2. Mitchell: 25 points obviously is big, very important steal and fast break layup at the end, clutch play in general. I loved how he didn't try to dunk or showboat on the transition layup. He knew the importance and just made sure to make it. Not easy in a pressured game. Here's my issue: Missed 2 of his last four free throws at the end. 9 for 28 shooting is really not that good, but he made his last two shots in the clutch. Ingles was 7-13 for 20 points, but most of his play was in the first half.
3. Ingles: More consistent, better shooting from Ingles. But didn't see the play as clutch, but rather reliable. I want to give it to Ingles based on shooting, but I don't know.
4. Favors: He was the catalyst for all of this. He played with passion, played great defense several plays in the clutch, was upset with a really bad call but responded with offense commitment and defensive dedication.

I think for Crowder, the rankings should be relative to expectations. He's not going to get blocks. He might get some steals (he used to in Boston).

So if it's a good game for him, then it should be weighted a little more than if, for example, Gobert had the same game.

For O'Neale, he played 38 minutes, 2nd most in the game.

Crowder also played 33 minutes, and you liked his hustle.

As for the rankings:

1) Mitchell
2) Favors
3) O'Neale
4) Crowder
5) Gobert (seemed like an average game for him, given his high standards).
6) Ingles
7) Jerebko (missed less shots than Neto, even if he played less minutes).

Also, Favors is shooting 54.7% from the field. That's really good for him, it's his highest of any season.
 

nuraman00

Well-Known Member
14,603
443
83
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I'm also glad you had fun watching that game. Looked like a good one.
 

MHSL82

Well-Known Member
16,720
883
113
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.92
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I think for Crowder, the rankings should be relative to expectations. He's not going to get blocks. He might get some steals (he used to in Boston). So if it's a good game for him, then it should be weighted a little more than if, for example, Gobert had the same game.

I agree in general. I meant in comparison to Favors. I don't know why I said blocks. I really meant rebounds, blocks, etc. I meant he didn't do much other than score. I wanted to have his 15 and 5 be higher than Favors 15 and 11 because it was Crowder's first game, but I didn't think it was as much overall to the game as Favors.

For O'Neale, he played 38 minutes, 2nd most in the game.

Crowder also played 33 minutes, and you liked his hustle.

As for the rankings:

1) Mitchell
2) Favors
3) O'Neale
4) Crowder
5) Gobert (seemed like an average game for him, given his high standards).
6) Ingles
7) Jerebko (missed less shots than Neto, even if he played less minutes).

Also, Favors is shooting 54.7% from the field. That's really good for him, it's his highest of any season.

Adjusted my above rankings. O'Neale's game was one of those, if you didn't watch the game, it was ehh statistically. He seemed to do a lot of off-the-ball stuff, especially defensive. So, yes, O'Neale should be higher than Ingles. I wonder how different my rankings would be if I watched every game... live. I would never trade my family time for it, but that would be fun.

As for Gobert, it was an average game statistically, but I did think he did more, including a 19 foot jumpshot that he usually doesn't even take. I would have put Crowder ahead originally if he didn't miss so many shots. I think Gobert did more than Crowder.

As for Ingles vs. Crowder... I value assists and shooting. I feel that Ingles was a spark, getting into the Spurs flow. He frustrated Pau Gasol a few times and did a good job against Ginobli at times.

Jerebko vs. Neto. I think it's 6's. 3 more missed shots is more important than 2 assists? I don't know. But since he did have 1 more turnover and 4 more fouls, I suppose the negative could outweigh the positive. So, I will defer to your assessment.
 
Top