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Jeff Teague...still underrated

Mebert

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Teague came back. Without him they may have fallen behind by 23 instead of 21. He IS way underrated.
 

trojanfan12

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Pretty sure Jeff Teague is properly rated by most as just a run of the mill average starter level point guard.

Maybe I should change the thread title to: Jeff Teague...still just a run of the mill average starter level point guard?:noidea:

:dhd:
 

larryjohn

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Immediate guards I would take on a starting roster over Teague:

Steph
Russ
Harden
CP3
Simmons
Kyrie
Wall
Lowry
Dame
Conley
IT (when healthy)
Kemba
Beverly
Bledsoe
Dragic
Holiday
Schroeder
Reggie Jackson (this year version)
Tony Parker

Interesting list.

But -- looks like 3 guys are hurt (and i'm not counting Parker or Wall) -- I'd put Teague at right at 15th or 16th PG -- which sounds about right. And that would make him an average NBA starting PG.
 

HurricaneDij39

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Jeff Teague at this point is just a below average starting point guard, IMO. He's a bad defender, but he's decent on offense. I think he peaked his one all-star season with the Hawks and hasn't been able to replicate that sort of efficiency he had. Even though he has solid numbers this year, his Per 36 numbers aren't that spectacular and his DRTG is the worst of his career. That's saying a lot when you have a defensive oriented coach in Thibbs.

I honestly think Teague is probably the Weak point in that lineup. I think you could plug in a ton of PG's who could replicate the number of assists and 3 point percentage. The Twolves have a ton of scoring weapons. Hell I'd easily take Patrick Beverly as a starter on the Wolves over Teague.

Patrick Beverly??? Are you fucking serious? No agendas here I suppose...Sure Beverly is a top notch defender, but you can't honestly tell me that if you took Teague off the Wolves roster that they wouldn't be extremely iso-heavy with Butler, Wiggins, and Towns? Beverly, while a better defender than Teague, wouldn't help that cause.
 

HurricaneDij39

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This is simply cherry picking, or relying too heavily on stats. Gobert had higher win share for the Jazz than Hayward, and Jordan for the Clippers was higher than Paul. It doesn't necessarily mean they are a better player or more valuable to the team. Do you really think, wait let me rephrase that, does anyone by 'Cane really think that Teague is better than George or more valuable to the team?

I wouldn't argue with Gobert being the most valuable player on the Jazz last season...But to the actual point, while win shares don't necessarily dictate who's the better player, I do think the fact that Teague led the Pacers in win shares last season is an actual indicator on how overrated George was/is.
 

CitySushi

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Patrick Beverly??? Are you fucking serious? No agendas here I suppose...Sure Beverly is a top notch defender, but you can't honestly tell me that if you took Teague off the Wolves roster that they wouldn't be extremely iso-heavy with Butler, Wiggins, and Towns? Beverly, while a better defender than Teague, wouldn't help that cause.

You make a valid point about ball movement, but the problem wouldn't be so much as needing a PG to facilitate offense, but creating an offense suited towards the talent. With guys like Butler, Towns and Wiggins, you don't need a guy who's going to help create for them, they can do that themselves. What you would need is an offensive flow system to get everyone in the right spots. Beverly would immediately help on defense and improve the wolves which at this point in their weak point. Yes there is a trade off here on offense for defense, but the Wolves defense this year has been atrocious. Beverly and Butler would easily make the best defensive backcourt in the NBA and Beverly is a knock down 3 point shooter now.

I think basically I'm looking at the team overall view in what they need to improve, versus a 1 on 1 comparison here. The Wolves need some heart and someone who's going to bring some added toughness to this team. Beverly would be my guy over Teague in this spot.

IMO.
 

Win TWINS!!!

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Eh. I thought he was a massive downgrade from Rubio and it showed so far. Tyrus Jones is a much better fit on that roster.


THIS!


I was not enamored with shipping Rubio and picking up Teague (Rubio was cheaper, anyway). This team has NO defense. At least Rubio did that last year for us.


I get it, though. Thibs wants more pick and roll, and Rubio doesnt do that as well... but I'm still not seeing much of it yet anyway.
 

HurricaneDij39

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You make a valid point about ball movement, but the problem wouldn't be so much as needing a PG to facilitate offense, but creating an offense suited towards the talent. With guys like Butler, Towns and Wiggins, you don't need a guy who's going to help create for them, they can do that themselves. What you would need is an offensive flow system to get everyone in the right spots. Beverly would immediately help on defense and improve the wolves which at this point in their weak point. Yes there is a trade off here on offense for defense, but the Wolves defense this year has been atrocious. Beverly and Butler would easily make the best defensive backcourt in the NBA and Beverly is a knock down 3 point shooter now.

I think basically I'm looking at the team overall view in what they need to improve, versus a 1 on 1 comparison here. The Wolves need some heart and someone who's going to bring some added toughness to this team. Beverly would be my guy over Teague in this spot.

IMO.

I love me some Patrick Beverly, but he wouldn't be a significant help to this team. Minnesota is about right where I expected them to be heading into the season. If any expected them to be on the levels of the Spurs, Houston, or Golden State I frankly don't think those expectations were all too realistic.

Their ascent in the standings this season as opposed to last has everything to do with offense. Thibs' Bulls teams had struggled greatly with offensive continuity, and Beverly ain't helping that.

FAST FACT: Teague has a greater plus-minus ranking than Karl-Anthony Towns this season. The fact that some of you schmucks think he's a backup further illustrates my point that he's underrated.

And Tyus Jones??? :L

That's all I got to say about that one...
 

CitySushi

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I love me some Patrick Beverly, but he wouldn't be a significant help to this team. Minnesota is about right where I expected them to be heading into the season. If any expected them to be on the levels of the Spurs, Houston, or Golden State I frankly don't think those expectations were all too realistic.

Their ascent in the standings this season as opposed to last has everything to do with offense. Thibs' Bulls teams had struggled greatly with offensive continuity, and Beverly ain't helping that.

FAST FACT: Teague has a greater plus-minus ranking than Karl-Anthony Towns this season. The fact that some of you schmucks think he's a backup further illustrates my point that he's underrated.

And Tyus Jones??? :L

That's all I got to say about that one...

I don't think he's a backup, just a player with deficiencies. I think he's probably in the bottom 10 PG's of starters in the NBA, but I don't think he's a backup player.
 

logic

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FAST FACT: Teague has a greater plus-minus ranking than Karl-Anthony Towns this season. .

This fast fact continues your theme started with win shares in this thread of over interpreting stats. This means nothing. Do you really think that Teague is more important than Towns to the Wolves.

Hey, at leadt you are consistant with your cherry picking.
 

HurricaneDij39

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This fast fact continues your theme started with win shares in this thread of over interpreting stats. This means nothing. Do you really think that Teague is more important than Towns to the Wolves.

Hey, at leadt you are consistant with your cherry picking.

Apparently I cherry-pick stats as well as you just cherry-picked my post...
 

logic

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Apparently I cherry-pick stats as well as you just cherry-picked my post...
I would have commented on the whole post but CitySushi already preemptively tore it apart in #28.
 

HurricaneDij39

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I would have commented on the whole post but CitySushi already preemptively tore it apart in #28.

So you think Beverly and hi roughly two and a half assists per game is a good fit for them??? :scratch:

You must really love iso-ball.
 

logic

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So you think Beverly and hi roughly two and a half assists per game is a good fit for them??? :scratch:

You must really love iso-ball.
You know there is a lot more that goes into an assist than just iso or non-iso. He had more assists in Houston playing with Harden, king of iso. It has a lot to do with the system and who you are playing along side.

And like CitySushi said back in #28, this team already has enough scoring, they don't really need a scoring point guard. What the do need is defense and Beverly is a serious disruptor.
 

trojanfan12

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You know there is a lot more that goes into an assist than just iso or non-iso. He had more assists in Houston playing with Harden, king of iso. It has a lot to do with the system and who you are playing along side.

And like CitySushi said back in #28, this team already has enough scoring, they don't really need a scoring point guard. What the do need is defense and Beverly is a serious disruptor.

You have to understand about Cane. He really loves basketball, but he has no idea of how the game is played or how teams are built.

All he knows are stats. That would be fine if he understood how stats don't necessarily tell the whole story.

For example, Westbrook averaged a triple double last year, which is an amazing feat. However, he doesn't understand that a player who averages say, 6 or 7 assists can be more effective than Westbrooks 10+ assists because Westbrooks assists are the result of him dominating the ball, trying to get assists. Meanwhile the guy with 6 assists was the result of just making sure the offense gets started and the ball kept moving.
 

HurricaneDij39

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You have to understand about Cane. He really loves basketball, but he has no idea of how the game is played or how teams are built.

All he knows are stats. That would be fine if he understood how stats don't necessarily tell the whole story.

For example, Westbrook averaged a triple double last year, which is an amazing feat. However, he doesn't understand that a player who averages say, 6 or 7 assists can be more effective than Westbrooks 10+ assists because Westbrooks assists are the result of him dominating the ball, trying to get assists. Meanwhile the guy with 6 assists was the result of just making sure the offense gets started and the ball kept moving.

I know exactly what it means. If you cared to follow my annual top 50 player rankings you'd know that I'm a fan of Kemba Walker and Dennis Schroder, neither of whom are big assist guys.

And at least I'm not stupid enough to want Paul George as the primary facilitator of the three alphas in OKC, considering he was never even the primary facilitator on the Pacers. But then again if you want him to leave OKC the logic there makes considerably more sense...
 
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HurricaneDij39

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You know there is a lot more that goes into an assist than just iso or non-iso. He had more assists in Houston playing with Harden, king of iso. It has a lot to do with the system and who you are playing along side.

And like CitySushi said back in #28, this team already has enough scoring, they don't really need a scoring point guard. What the do need is defense and Beverly is a serious disruptor.

Apparently you haven't watched much of Jim-ME Butler the last three years. I live near Chicago and I have. His game had become extremely iso-heavy the last few years. Sports talk show commentators in Chicago have even openly admitted that his contract had changed him as a person.

Playing with a true point guard in Teague has allowed him to impact the offense in other ways. It's no coincidence that the Bulls played much better with Rondo (a true point) and Butler on the court at the same time last season.

You replace Teague with Beverly and you'd become a little better defensively and considerably worse offensively. Not a trade-off I'd take in the modern NBA. And it's the offense that's responsible for their ascension in the standings this year.

Oh, and for the record, I'm sure you of all people would be interested in my writing about your '92 Pistons from earlier in the year: Bad Boys Leftover: The 1991-92 Detroit Pistons Season
 
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And at least I'm not stupid enough to want Paul George as the primary facilitator of the three alphas in OKC, considering he was never even the primary facilitator on the Pacers. But then again if you want him to leave OKC the logic there makes considerably more sense...

Are you implying that PG would be the primary facilitator if he were to move to LA?
 
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