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USMNT 2018 World Cup

rsw626

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Perhaps, but again, if you aren't able to pay for club soccer, how do you get sufficient training or exposure to where you'd even get a sniff from a DA in the first place?

No, it isn't impossible, but the road is MUCH more difficult and I can only imagine a majority of players and their families would get discouraged long before getting to the DA level.
This. Unlike Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Germany, England etc, poor/working class kids here have almost no chance to play and develop.
 

ckhokie

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Perhaps, but again, if you aren't able to pay for club soccer, how do you get sufficient training or exposure to where you'd even get a sniff from a DA in the first place?

No, it isn't impossible, but the road is MUCH more difficult and I can only imagine a majority of players and their families would get discouraged long before getting to the DA level.

Totally agree with you. Just trying to provide additional clarity to your point.
 

Sparhawk

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In other countries, soccer development occurs regardless of the score.
In the US, with the pay to play system, trained coaches generally have to 'win' to keep the $$$ rolling in.
That means dump and chase. A majority of club coaches find the easiest and most efficient way to win games at the expense of developing players. Even at the youngest ages, they are taught how to win instead of focusing on technical ability and development. Winning state cups on a U9 team means nothing if that team folds in a few years.

Pusilic is an anomaly, having parents from the soccer world. He had opportunities that we can only dream of. But, he was talented. He played for PA Classics, which built their entire team around him. I'm willing to bet that nobody else on that team developed, but this most likely pushed Pusilic to reach his own potential.

That's the curse of academy soccer. Most players are just a number. They fit the players into the system, instead of building the system around the strengths of the players. The youth system needs to be revamped, de-emphasizing winning and stop keeping scores. Develop the players. Train them all as midfielders. The strikers, defenders, creators, will emerge over time. Play more futsal to improve speed of play and technical ability. Maintain pay to play, but offer more scholarships to play club ball.

They should really try to pry kids away from football and basketball that are undersized and fast. Those kids become fillers in the football/AAU leagues where bigger/faster/stronger players get the college recruitment. In soccer, being smaller isn't necessarily a hindrance as much as it is in other sports.

Just my opinions.... :D
 

jarntt

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If you don't think MLS has blame in this, get out. You don't know jack shit about soccer. The entire US Federation is set up to boost MLS. Their relationship is pure cronyism to enrich themselves. It's never been about developing talent, its about propping up MLS and getting rich. No where in the US system from the academies to how MLS is structured forces player development and competition. It's why all our best players go to Europe (like the always have) and why Klinnsman said countless times the system needed to be re-structured (and he was met with resistance by said cronies). Say what you want about Jurgen tactically as a manager, but his vision for the program was 100% correct.
Agree. I always thought Klinsman was maybe a little lacking as HC and needed a strong #2 to help like he had in Germany, but that his vision was strong and accurate and that perhaps would have been a better fit in Gulati's job than as HC.

Joachim Low credits Jurgen Klinsmann for Germany success
 

xpuctaqpGT

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In a previous post I mentioned that the average MLS salary is $226,000. In England the average salary of the "B" league is $426,000. Our players make less than the "B" level players. Talent follows the money.
 

Payton

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In other countries, soccer development occurs regardless of the score.
In the US, with the pay to play system, trained coaches generally have to 'win' to keep the $$$ rolling in.
That means dump and chase. A majority of club coaches find the easiest and most efficient way to win games at the expense of developing players. Even at the youngest ages, they are taught how to win instead of focusing on technical ability and development. Winning state cups on a U9 team means nothing if that team folds in a few years.

Pusilic is an anomaly, having parents from the soccer world. He had opportunities that we can only dream of. But, he was talented. He played for PA Classics, which built their entire team around him. I'm willing to bet that nobody else on that team developed, but this most likely pushed Pusilic to reach his own potential.

That's the curse of academy soccer. Most players are just a number. They fit the players into the system, instead of building the system around the strengths of the players. The youth system needs to be revamped, de-emphasizing winning and stop keeping scores. Develop the players. Train them all as midfielders. The strikers, defenders, creators, will emerge over time. Play more futsal to improve speed of play and technical ability. Maintain pay to play, but offer more scholarships to play club ball.

They should really try to pry kids away from football and basketball that are undersized and fast. Those kids become fillers in the football/AAU leagues where bigger/faster/stronger players get the college recruitment. In soccer, being smaller isn't necessarily a hindrance as much as it is in other sports.

Just my opinions.... :D

I think our women's team, while fun to watch, is primarily a "Dump and Chase" system. Only a matter of time before we are passed by there as well if we don't develop differently.
 

ckhokie

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In other countries, soccer development occurs regardless of the score.
In the US, with the pay to play system, trained coaches generally have to 'win' to keep the $$$ rolling in.
That means dump and chase. A majority of club coaches find the easiest and most efficient way to win games at the expense of developing players. Even at the youngest ages, they are taught how to win instead of focusing on technical ability and development. Winning state cups on a U9 team means nothing if that team folds in a few years.

Pusilic is an anomaly, having parents from the soccer world. He had opportunities that we can only dream of. But, he was talented. He played for PA Classics, which built their entire team around him. I'm willing to bet that nobody else on that team developed, but this most likely pushed Pusilic to reach his own potential.

That's the curse of academy soccer. Most players are just a number. They fit the players into the system, instead of building the system around the strengths of the players. The youth system needs to be revamped, de-emphasizing winning and stop keeping scores. Develop the players. Train them all as midfielders. The strikers, defenders, creators, will emerge over time. Play more futsal to improve speed of play and technical ability. Maintain pay to play, but offer more scholarships to play club ball.

They should really try to pry kids away from football and basketball that are undersized and fast. Those kids become fillers in the football/AAU leagues where bigger/faster/stronger players get the college recruitment. In soccer, being smaller isn't necessarily a hindrance as much as it is in other sports.

Just my opinions.... :D

You make a lot of good points. I agree that until high school, any kid should be trained like a center mid.

As far as a vision for US soccer, my recommendation would be to follow the European model. We have 4 professional divisions in the US, which already cover the majority of metropolitan areas. We need to instill a relegation/promotion model within these leagues, and attempt to spread $$ down, not keeping it in the hands of the current MLS owners. Youth clubs should be aligned to the professional clubs, and development should all run through the main clubs, providing resources to younger players earlier, while getting them into a system where they can be scouted more easily
 

jarntt

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It's because we beat their asses is basketball, football, and in some years baseball. Those are the sports we play from the age of 2, not competitive soccer. Soccer in the US for the most part is a way to tire out kids on weekends, nothing more.
Soccer is pretty big among younger kids nowadays and has been for a few years.
 

Payton

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As far as a vision for US soccer, my recommendation would be to follow the European model. We have 4 professional divisions in the US, which already cover the majority of metropolitan areas. We need to instill a relegation/promotion model within these leagues, and attempt to spread $$ down, not keeping it in the hands of the current MLS owners. Youth clubs should be aligned to the professional clubs, and development should all run through the main clubs, providing resources to younger players earlier, while getting them into a system where they can be scouted more easily

I keep hearing this about promotion/relegation, which I am all for as I think it makes for a more exciting league structure anyway, but I have one question.

What do you do with/tell the franchise owners who I am sure paid a hefty franchise fee to be in MLS? What promises were made to these owners? (Like them or not).
 

Sparhawk

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I think our women's team, while fun to watch, is primarily a "Dump and Chase" system. Only a matter of time before we are passed by there as well if we don't develop differently.
Absolutely. They have struggled against some defensive-minded teams, but there is no denying the natural talent of a Mallory Pugh (Colorado!). They should be fine for quite some time, but as the other countries begin to develop their girls/womens programs to match that of the mens, there will be changes at the top...
 

Sparhawk

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You make a lot of good points. I agree that until high school, any kid should be trained like a center mid.

As far as a vision for US soccer, my recommendation would be to follow the European model. We have 4 professional divisions in the US, which already cover the majority of metropolitan areas. We need to instill a relegation/promotion model within these leagues, and attempt to spread $$ down, not keeping it in the hands of the current MLS owners. Youth clubs should be aligned to the professional clubs, and development should all run through the main clubs, providing resources to younger players earlier, while getting them into a system where they can be scouted more easily

Regrettably, the main driver for professional soccer in the US is TV advertising $$$.
Without $$$, they can't afford to have a relegation system.
We all understand the advantages of why such a system helps foster quality play, but from a business perspective, there is little to gain. Until that changes, we will always be on the outside looking in.
 

rsw626

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I keep hearing this about promotion/relegation, which I am all for as I think it makes for a more exciting league structure anyway, but I have one question.

What do you do with/tell the franchise owners who I am sure paid a hefty franchise fee to be in MLS? What promises were made to these owners? (Like them or not).

The main problem with MLS IMO, is that there AREN'T really individual owners.

MLS is a single entity in which each team is owned and controlled by the league's investors instead of operating as an association of independently owned teams. The investor-operators control their teams as owners control teams in other leagues, and are commonly (but inaccurately) referred to as the team's owners.

Major League Soccer operates under a single-entity structure in which teams and player contracts are centrally owned by the league. Each team has an investor-operator that is a shareholder in the league. In order to control costs, MLS shares revenues and holds players contracts instead of players contracting with individual teams. In Fraser v. Major League Soccer, a lawsuit filed in 1996 and decided in 2002, the league won a legal battle with its players in which the court ruled that MLS was a single entity that can lawfully centrally contract for player services. The court also ruled that even absent their collective bargaining agreement, players could opt to play in other leagues if they were unsatisfied.
 

Sgt Brutus

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Soccer, IMO, is still the 4th or maybe 5th most important competitive sport. Little kids play it to learn to run and be on a team, not many move on beyond that. Then it's baseball & football next, then basketball, and even hockey is pretty big for kids here in Dallas. Soccer isn't a competitive sport. I played it until middle school and our team was really good, going to state and tournaments. But then our team dissolved and we all walked away to other sports. In HS our soccer team was an excuse to smoke pot and skip class.
I get what you are saying but even 4th or 5th most popular sport, we should be able to EASILY qualify given the size of our population and the money we've dumped into it. CONCACAF is really easy. This is a disaster for USSoccer.
 

rsw626

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Thanks captain
v559e.jpg
 

ckhokie

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I keep hearing this about promotion/relegation, which I am all for as I think it makes for a more exciting league structure anyway, but I have one question.

What do you do with/tell the franchise owners who I am sure paid a hefty franchise fee to be in MLS? What promises were made to these owners? (Like them or not).

RSW alluded to it above. MLS owns all. Cincinnati is trying to get an expansion team now, and the team owners must pay a "buy-in" to the MLS, which is something like $250,000,000. Clearly some agreement needs to be made with those owners (investors) who have ponied up the funds. I'd expect a long term buyout or payout option would need to be explored, or stake in league ownership or league revenues for a period of time. For a relegation/promotion system to work, MLS would have to make some organizational changes. Might not be easy, but in the long term would likely produce a better product.
 

ckhokie

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Regrettably, the main driver for professional soccer in the US is TV advertising $$$.
Without $$$, they can't afford to have a relegation system.
We all understand the advantages of why such a system helps foster quality play, but from a business perspective, there is little to gain. Until that changes, we will always be on the outside looking in.
Television and media contracts drive funding in all leagues. It's not a US-specific issue. When Bournemouth was promoted to the EPL, they instantly became like $175M more valuable. Such is business. Though on a smaller scale in the US, there are plenty of investors who'd be willing to take that kind of risk in a smaller team in a lower division for the potential reward - that's what drives investment into the clubs.
 

The Derski

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Why does Bruce Arena look like a New York truck driver that smokes a pack a day and hates his life. Get this dude out.
 

rsw626

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Television and media contracts drive funding in all leagues. It's not a US-specific issue. When Bournemouth was promoted to the EPL, they instantly became like $175M more valuable. Such is business. Though on a smaller scale in the US, there are plenty of investors who'd be willing to take that kind of risk in a smaller team in a lower division for the potential reward - that's what drives investment into the clubs.

Yeah.. They call the English Championship (old 2nd Division) Playoff Final, to see the last team promoted to the EPL, "The richest game in the World". Last year's payoff was 175 million POUNDS which is about $230 million dollars for each of the three teams promoted.
 
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