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SportsHoopla's top 10 NBA players

Heatles84

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The Warriors are an interesting case study. I agree with you on Curry and KD, but I also think they poke a lot of holes in the "more rings = better player" argument. If Curry finishes his career with 6 rings and LeBron has 3, I think many people will rate him higher. But that is so clearly wrong.

My hope is that the possible Warrior dynasty forces people to reconsider their views on the importance of ring count. KD has the talent to finish pretty high on the all time list. Curry is great, but I don't think I can ever put him top 10 no matter how many rings he gets.

The ring count should only be used in certain circumstances. You can't see it as black and white, you have to use some context.

If KD wins 4 and Lebron's at 3, I still wouldn't put KD over Lebron in an overall career aspect. Same thing with what you just said with Curry - he's not the better overall player. Better 3-point shooter, but that's about it.
 

tlance

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The point I was making is that Curry is an elite level perimeter shooter. That doesn't get you into the top 10. Top 20 is arguable.

I understand what you are saying, but Curry is a lot more than just an elite shooter. A large percentage of his shots come off the dribble. He can create for himself and for others in ways that Reggie couldn't.
 

Logicallylethal

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The Warriors are an interesting case study. I agree with you on Curry and KD, but I also think they poke a lot of holes in the "more rings = better player" argument. If Curry finishes his career with 6 rings and LeBron has 3, I think many people will rate him higher. But that is so clearly wrong.

My hope is that the possible Warrior dynasty forces people to reconsider their views on the importance of ring count. KD has the talent to finish pretty high on the all time list. Curry is great, but I don't think I can ever put him top 10 no matter how many rings he gets.

For sure, I agree. Lebron's impact on the game is undeniable. Has made the playoffs and has advanced in the playoffs every year since his 2nd season. 7 straight finals, multiple rings, multiple MVPs, multiple finals MVPs. Video game stats, global icon, family man.

When it comes to measuring KD and Steph in 10 years on the all time list you can't really factor out rings. You consider it but also measure it with their accomplishments individually. There's a reason why Pippen isn't on anyone's top 10 list ever despite having 6 rings and being a great player.

This is why someone like Klay will never enter the discussion either. Because like Pippen, he wasn't the alpha. KD and Steph are guys who have won an MVP and did it with historically great statistical years. So yeah, with the Warriors potential dynasty, their ring count may be a bit inflated, but I think at the end of the day if they get to 4, 5 or 6 then they are in the top 8 in some form.

When that happens THEN you can start talking okay, now where do they rank with a Magic, Kareem, Lebron, Jordan, etc.
 

Logicallylethal

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I'm obligated to be a Steph hater because he's the enemy, but you got to recognize greatness when you see it. He's more than just a perimeter shooter. People look at him and his finesse style of basketball and assume he's a soft defender.

But he's a better defender than Russell Westbrook. Thing is, Westbrook just gets the benefit of the doubt being a player with such drive and passion on the offensive end. But have you guys ever seen him on the defensive end? He is usually posted in the 3 pt corner, 10 feet from his man, with one foot in the paint because he wants to be ready to grab the rebound to pad his triple double stats.

Steph is actually an underrated defender. He has extremely quick hands and usually stays with his man pretty well. There was a play in the finals where Lebron was charging on fast break like a locomotive train and Steph just swiped the ball clean for a steal.

I hate on Steph (Mr. 0 Finals MVP) every chance I get but some of the old school heads on here labeling him as just a perimeter shooter is quite disrespectful. He's better than Reggie Miller ever was as an individual player and he isn't even 30 yet.
 

knowyourenemy

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1. Jordan

2. Magic
3. Lebron
4. Kareem
5. Hakeem
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Wilt
9. Kobe
10. Oscar

Duncan to me is the most overrated on all these lists. In my opinion, David Robinson is better than Duncan in almost every aspect, but Duncan always gets ranked ahead of him because of the 5 rings. But when you compare the two in their absolute prime, it's not close.

I also think at the rate Durant is going, he's going to end up in the top 6 somewhere. He may very well finish with like 4-5 rings, which would mean Steph would have 5-6 and he'd be top 10 somewhere too.

Durant is really interesting. We'll have to see where everything ends up but he has a lot of great basketball ahead of him. The only downside is that playing on the Warriors will probably limit his regular season numbers a bit -- but probably not significantly so. I think if the Warriors win again next year, especially if they beat LeBron in the process, you'll already hear people talking about Durant over LeBron.
 

UK Cowboy

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1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Lebron
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

And I'll put Russell at 11 for his 11 rings.
This is my 10 as well, though I would have put Hakeem higher
 

TJL

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Absolutely. Dead serious.
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In the interest of fairness, this is my list:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Dr J
7. Hakeem
8. Wilt
9. Lebron
10. Kobe

Timmy pops in there too from time to time. Like I said before, the list changes quite regularly.

Lebron loses another finals and he goes out the top 10. Kobe moves up a spot and Duncan takes his place.
 
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Mecca

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1. Jordan

2. KAJ

3. LeBron

4. Magic

5. Wilt

6. TIMMMMMMMMY

7. Bird

8. Kobe

9. Shaq

10. Dream
 

tlance

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In the interest of fairness, this is my list:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Dr J
7. Hakeem
8. Wilt
9. Lebron
10. Kobe

Timmy pops in there too from time to time. Like I said before, the list changes quite regularly.

Lebron loses another finals and he goes out the top 10. Kobe moves up a spot and Duncan takes his place.

That is crazy.

So LeBron loses a series in which he will be a heavy underdog amidst a ton of drama and he moves down?

Finals record doesn't matter people. Look at the context. Losing to the Warriors should not hurt anyone's legacy.
 
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That is crazy.

So LeBron loses a series in which he will be a heavy underdog amidst a ton of drama and he moves down?

Finals record doesn't matter people. Look at the context. Losing to the Warriors should not hurt anyone's legacy.

Well look at you discrediting someone's opinion.
 

Logicallylethal

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Consider the first 3 finals teams Kobe faced (Pacers, Sixers, and Nets)
Any of Lebrons finals team post 2010 would go 3-0 too.

Now let's compare all their finals opponents

Kobe: Pacers, Sixers, Nets, Pistons, Celtics, Magic, Celtics

Lebron: Spurs, Magic, Thunder, Spurs, Spurs, Warriors, Warriors, Warriors

Lebron has faced 6 great teams in the finals. Kobe has faced 3. None of those teams Kobe faced are better than an of the Warrior teams. I'd argue those Spurs team are better than the Pistons and Celtics. That 2012 Thunder team was young but more talented than any of the team Kobe faced too.

The finals record is the most overrated and overused argument to justify (insert player) is better than Lebron. If Lebron gets eliminated in the first round or in the east finals in 2007, 2011, 2014, and 2015...now all of a sudden he's 3-1 in the finals

How does that make his resume better? Not advancing as far in the playoffs but having a cleaner finals record.
 
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Consider the first 3 finals teams Kobe faced (Pacers, Sixers, and Nets)
Any of Lebrons finals team post 2010 would go 3-0 too.

Now let's compare all their finals opponents

Kobe: Pacers, Sixers, Nets, Pistons, Celtics, Magic, Celtics

Lebron: Spurs, Magic, Thunder, Spurs, Spurs, Warriors, Warriors, Warriors

Lebron has faced 6 great teams in the finals. Kobe has faced 3. None of those teams Kobe faced are better than an of the Warrior teams. I'd argue those Spurs team are better than the Pistons and Celtics. That 2012 Thunder team was young but more talented than any of the team Kobe faced too.

The finals record is the most overrated and overused argument to justify (insert player) is better than Lebron. If Lebron gets eliminated in the first round or in the east finals in 2007, 2011, 2014, and 2015...now all of a sudden he's 3-1 in the finals

How does that make his resume better? Not advancing as far in the playoffs but having a cleaner finals record.

Oh god not this again.

Want to list the teams each player faced BEFORE the finals too?
 

TJL

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Instead of doing it by average position I'm just going to do it by most points, since some people had guys like Durant, Robinson, and Hayes, it'll still come out to the same top 10.

Right now we have 24 entries so the points is out of 240.

1. MJ
points for - 234
Highest ranking - 1
lowest ranking - 3
on 24/24 top 10s
Number 1 votes - 21

2. KAJ
points for - 195
Highest ranking - 1
lowest ranking - 5
on 24/24 top 10s
Number 1 votes - 1

3. Magic
points for -194
Highest ranking -1
Lowest ranking - 6
on 24/24 top 10s
Number 1 votes -1

4. LeBron
points for - 159
Highest ranking - 2
lowest ranking - 9

5. Wilt
points for - 106
Highest ranking - 4
on 23/24 top 10s

6. Bird
points for - 101
Highest ranking - 2
on 22/24 tops 10s

7. Shaq
points for - 83
Highest ranking - 5
20/24 tops 10s

8. Duncan
points for - 62
Highest ranking - 5
17/24 top 10s

9. Hakeem
points for - 51
Highest ranking - 3
16/24 top 10s

10. Oscar Robertson
points for - 38
highest ranking - 4
12/24 top 10s

11. Kobe
points for - 32
highest ranking - 7
14/24 top 10s

12. Bill Russell
points for - 27
Highest ranking - 1
5/24 top 10s
Number one votes - 1

13. Dr J
points for - 24
Highest ranking - 6
10/24 top 10s

14. David Robinson
points for - 4
highest ranking - 7
1/24 top 10s

T15. Kevin Durant
points for - 2
highest ranking - 9
1/24 top 10s

T15. Moses Malone
points for - 2
Highest ranking - 9
1/24 top 10s

T17. Elvin Hayes
points for - 1
highest ranking - 10
1/24 top 10s

T17. Kevin Garnett

points for - 1
highest ranking - 10
1/24 top 10s



This is just a rough draft, some of these numbers could be a tad off I did them quick, will post final list on Wednesday afternooon after all entries are in.
 

Mecca

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That is crazy.

So LeBron loses a series in which he will be a heavy underdog amidst a ton of drama and he moves down?

Finals record doesn't matter people. Look at the context. Losing to the Warriors should not hurt anyone's legacy.
* See Wilt Chamberlain who is top 5 on most lists.

Wilt was 2-5 in the Finals.

For me, Finals record is the determining factor when all other things are even.

Horry has what?

7 rings?

Does that make him better than Barkely or Malone?

Obviously, the Kobe vs. Bron comparison is not that lopsided.

But, based on finals records, shouldn't Shaq be higher than Wilt?
 
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