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Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

deanpet21

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In what world?? The Chiefs just gave up two potential starters for a guy they dont even expect to put on the field for the next two years.

Think about that for a moment. Unless this guy is ELITE and beats out Smith for the starting job, he will not take a snap this year. And even if the plan is to start him in 2018, that means they basically gave up a potential starter next year, and he sat the pine this year.

And this is all assuming that we might actually be able to ONLY trade up into the top ten for a single first rounder next year.

Cbs mocked four QB's in the top 10. Plus one more going the first round to make 5. Doesn't that make a difference when FA comes next year?
 

skinsdad62

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Yes, I guess 20 million would be pretty good NOW, but once again, last year the 20 mill ask was slightly less than a year removed contracts for 2 Super Bowl QBs for KC who at that point had one decent year under his belt. The more I think about it the more ridiculous that deal last year sounds. The Texans fell for that fools gold and lost some major cash because of it. Not sure how anyone can in hindsight be mad because our FO had the same reservations and decided to take a wait and see approach.

You are playing Monday Morning QB here. 44mg for 1 good year is a steep price to pay just like vtsparks said. Now in present day if KC performs he will get the LTD he wants. Plain and simple. If he fails that is where a lot of scineros come into play.

both of you need to learn about the cap . you bitch at 20-24 mil per season and then go ahead and pay the 44 mil anyway these past 2 seasons . if we had done the deal right then and there we would have the option to be done with it or keep him at a lower price because guarantees are no .longer there

however screwed up the market is , it is still the market and hence you have to pay up . he did what was asked of him now its time to pay him
 

skinsdad62

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Cbs mocked four QB's in the top 10. Plus one more going the first round to make 5. Doesn't that make a difference when FA comes next year?
no , not when the FA qb is putting up alltime numbers
 

deanpet21

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both of you need to learn about the cap . you bitch at 20-24 mil per season and then go ahead and pay the 44 mil anyway these past 2 seasons . if we had done the deal right then and there we would have the option to be done with it or keep him at a lower price because guarantees are no .longer there

however screwed up the market is , it is still the market and hence you have to pay up . he did what was asked of him now its time to pay him

actually he didn't but I can see your point. VT and I are looking at it when the 2015 season ended. It was a huge ask.
 

deanpet21

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no , not when the FA qb is putting up alltime numbers

Do you agree with me that if the skins offered KC the Luck deal he would turn it down right now?
 

skinsdad62

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numbers not wins. you guys are obsessed with stats.
it takes 22 players to get "wins " sonny jurgensen was a HOF qb who didnt get many wins for us , you know dean its a team sport and all
 

skinsdad62

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Do you agree with me that if the skins offered KC the Luck deal he would turn it down right now?
nope i think he would take it or something close to it
 

Sharkinva

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Cbs mocked four QB's in the top 10. Plus one more going the first round to make 5. Doesn't that make a difference when FA comes next year?


Sure, if you want to start over and are willing to risk the 4 out of five failure rate on top ten or first round QBs in general.

I mean its not like we are saying, we should roll with Rex Grossman or commit to Jeff George here. We are saying Kirk is a pretty good QB, as a team we missed the playoffs by half a game. Now if you really are that desperate to say, lets start over because Kirk isnt elite enough for you, then sure roll the dice. But realize that the odds of finding a QB as good as Kirk, are stacked against you. Because if it were that easy to find a good QB (lets not even talk elite here, just good) IM thinking it wouldnt have taken 20 years for us to find Kirk.
 

Sharkinva

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Do you agree with me that if the skins offered KC the Luck deal he would turn it down right now?


If the Skins offer him that deal, and he turns it down.. you might have a point. But right now they have offered him

1. A deal worth less than what Oswieler got

and most recently a have your cake and eat it to type of deal. And by that I mean, the last reported offer was six years $120M with $25M guaranteed.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Do you agree with me that if the skins offered KC the Luck deal he would turn it down right now?

Andrew Luck

The exact deal that Luck signed to include guaranteed money? The guaranteed money is substantial & the Skins reported offer in that area does not even appear to be in the same zip code as the one for Luck. Stop quoting yearly figures & focus on the guaranteed money (which is what counts in the NFL - this isn't the NBA or MLB).
 

gkekoa

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Im not commenting on your first sentence. already explained it. Moving from mid to late 20's and going to #10 to get a QB for a 1st rounder is not a steep price at all.

You explained nothing. We have paid him in two years what he was asking for in guarantees and we don't have him under contract after this season. We didn't pay him because we wanted him to prove it? If that is the case and he still hasn't proven it, why have we given him 43 million in guaranteed money?

That is a steep price for a less than 10 percent chance of being worth it. Name all the first rounders in the league that are unarguably better than KC.

We have rights to KC on the transition tag. IF he succeeds this year we will not lose him unless he wants crazy numbers. Simple as that.

Let's say we transition him. If SF offers him 25 million per season but frontloads the contract at 35 million year one and 30 million year 2, all guaranteed, what rights do we actually own?

Its all speculation on when he plays. The Chiefs moved up farther than the Eagles and Rams did for there QB's and gave up a lot less. Moving up 17 spots for a qb and only costing a 1st next year is a deal in my book. Buffalo should of gotten more.

Moving up 17 spots for a player not worth the pick makes it steep.
 

Sleepy T

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That is a steep price for a less than 10 percent chance of being worth it. Name all the first rounders in the league that are unarguably better than KC.

I count 10 of the Top 12 on this list that I would take over KC. The other 2, Vick is no longer in the league and Alex Smith is a push IMO and a QB cut from the same mold. Furthermore, there are probably only a handful of starters drafted outside of the first couple of rounds. I get what you are saying Gk. The hit rate isn't not as high as what you would like it to be for a 1st rounder, but it is probably a little bit better than 10%. As with any position, the percentage goes way down the later the they are drafted. We are lucky KC has turned out to be pretty good. That's a credit to him and those who have helped develop him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.spor...on-manziel-rodgers/16obdsowna7kk1gnhl9iqrp2pg
 

deanpet21

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You explained nothing. We have paid him in two years what he was asking for in guarantees and we don't have him under contract after this season. We didn't pay him because we wanted him to prove it? If that is the case and he still hasn't proven it, why have we given him 43 million in guaranteed money?

That is a steep price for a less than 10 percent chance of being worth it. Name all the first rounders in the league that are unarguably better than KC.



Let's say we transition him. If SF offers him 25 million per season but frontloads the contract at 35 million year one and 30 million year 2, all guaranteed, what rights do we actually own?



Moving up 17 spots for a player not worth the pick makes it steep.

But its a QB. If they hit they are golden.
 

Sharkinva

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But its a QB. If they hit they are golden.
And when they miss it usually sets you back another 3 to 5 years..... or more. Ask browns fans how cool 1st round qbs are
 

deanpet21

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And when they miss it usually sets you back another 3 to 5 years..... or more. Ask browns fans how cool 1st round qbs are

lol. true but that is the browns.
 

gkekoa

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I count 10 of the Top 12 on this list that I would take over KC. The other 2, Vick is no longer in the league and Alex Smith is a push IMO and a QB cut from the same mold. Furthermore, there are probably only a handful of starters drafted outside of the first couple of rounds. I get what you are saying Gk. The hit rate isn't not as high as what you would like it to be for a 1st rounder, but it is probably a little bit better than 10%. As with any position, the percentage goes way down the later the they are drafted. We are lucky KC has turned out to be pretty good. That's a credit to him and those who have helped develop him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.spor...on-manziel-rodgers/16obdsowna7kk1gnhl9iqrp2pg

First round QBs

2010- Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow
2011- Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder
2012- Andrew Luck, RGME, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

There are your ten QBs in the first round.

KC is better than all of those except, MAYBE Luck and Newton. Honestly, those three are still fighting for position because Newton and Luck have been very inconsistent, while KC has steadily improved. So at best, 20% of those first round QBs have hit while 80% have unquestionably been worse than KC.

Now answer this...let's say we are picking 20 this season. What are you willing to trade to move up and grab your QB?
 

deanpet21

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First round QBs

2010- Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow
2011- Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder
2012- Andrew Luck, RGME, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

There are your ten QBs in the first round.

KC is better than all of those except, MAYBE Luck and Newton. Honestly, those three are still fighting for position because Newton and Luck have been very inconsistent, while KC has steadily improved. So at best, 20% of those first round QBs have hit while 80% have unquestionably been worse than KC.

Now answer this...let's say we are picking 20 this season. What are you willing to trade to move up and grab your QB?

we have been thru this. Kansas City went up 17 spots for next years 1 to get there QB. Why did you only post years 2010-12?
 

j_y19

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The Chiefs also already have a franchise QB under contract through 2018. So they wont be forcing the rookie they just drafted to start.

Do you honestly think, if we trade up to take a QB, he will get to play sit and learn??
Who is their franchise QB and what has he ever done? This is where you have a double standard when it comes to KC.
 

gkekoa

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we have been thru this. Kansas City went up 17 spots for next years 1 to get there QB. Why did you only post years 2010-12?

I chose those years at random. They are in this era and we can actually have a good idea of the player. I could have easily added 2013 with EJ Manuel as the only first rounder.

2014- Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, and Teddy Bridgewater...really not helping yourself here.

Let's go the other way.

2009- Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, and Josh Freeman

2008- Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco

2007- Jamarcus Russell and Brady Quinn

No matter where you go, the percentages suck. In today's game of chasing QBs, it is far worse because QBs get over drafted.

I have listed 21 first round QBs now (2007-2014), and I am not sure if there is anyone I would want over KC for the next five years on this team. Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford were stuck in mediocrity until last season and both have enjoyed the best WRs in football. 7 or 8 of these guys are not even in the league. Only 8 of them are starters at all.

KC gave up next year's 1 for a QB that should have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round.
 
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